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Old July 29th, 2005, 06:18 PM   #1
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Likelihood of success?

Out of the 3 major projects, the Brunswick tower, Central station & Chieftain, does anyone believe that any will be granted pp or that one project above any others would get the nod?
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Old July 29th, 2005, 07:04 PM   #2
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Well Brunswick is still in there and twitching, Chieftan is the newest proposal of all these. My guess is if Brunswick is approved, then they will all be approved.

Would Chieftan propose a tall tower next to another proposed tower if they knew it had no chance/or was sited too close. I think Chieftan will be approved if reduced in height to around 24 storeys.
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Old July 29th, 2005, 08:41 PM   #3
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IMO:

Brunswick tower: no. The re-application isn't much different from the original one and so the same objections will still largely apply. I think the DP&E talked up the chances of the re-application to cover themselves after their shameful behaviour over West Tower.

Chieftain: not in current form. I suspect the Planning Committee, like Cllr Storey, will respond rather defensively to Chieftain's current tactics and the resulting emails and letters. Plus the agencies are ranged solidly against it.

Central Station: a bit early to say as a planning application isn't even in, let alone ready for a decision (so recent doom and gloom is premature). I think planners have had plenty of time to get used to it, and they keep mentioning it in other documents (e.g. this one (p. 126), from the agenda of the next Executive Board). Maybe not at the rumoured 37 storeys though.
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Old July 29th, 2005, 09:14 PM   #4
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Everton Vs. Villarreal: 80%
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Old July 29th, 2005, 09:17 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnyman
Everton Vs. Villarreal: 80%
Yeah, now that we have bought their keeper your chances must be better!
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Old July 29th, 2005, 09:18 PM   #6
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THe re-application for Brunswick Quay is to add office space to the scheme. The major factor in rejection last time was because the businesses were not going to be looked after, something Maro has apparently sorted out this time.

I doubt the Chieftain tower will get approved on Tuesday, but there is always hope.

With Central station, I think CABE generally supported the idea of a tall building here (don't quote me ) , it was the design that let the original down. Even though the tower is 8 storeys taller I think, at least I hope it has a chance!
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Old July 29th, 2005, 09:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Yeah, now that we have bought their keeper your chances must be better!
I'm not so sure. He must be a bit of a spastic or something if you shower have signed him.
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Old July 30th, 2005, 07:51 PM   #8
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Of the three, Brunswick and Chieftain no chance, Central station I would think has every chance of being built.
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Old July 30th, 2005, 07:54 PM   #9
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Where've you been Wooly? It's been awfully quiet here lately.

Meeting us on the 14th or wha?
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Old July 30th, 2005, 07:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnyman
Where've you been Wooly? It's been awfully quiet here lately.

Meeting us on the 14th or wha?
Hi pesky rabbit, been busy at work and at home, cannt make the 14th. I am away in Eastbourne, but will try for a visit mid/end of august.
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Old July 30th, 2005, 08:02 PM   #11
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Aye. I posted that and noticed you'd posted in t'other thread. See you end of August then!
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Old July 30th, 2005, 08:09 PM   #12
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Thumbs up See you soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnyman
Aye. I posted that and noticed you'd posted in t'other thread. See you end of August then!
Cheers mate, look foreward to seeing you and all the guys at the end of the month.
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Old July 31st, 2005, 02:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
THe re-application for Brunswick Quay is to add office space to the scheme. The major factor in rejection last time was because the businesses were not going to be looked after, something Maro has apparently sorted out this time.

I doubt the Chieftain tower will get approved on Tuesday, but there is always hope.

With Central station, I think CABE generally supported the idea of a tall building here (don't quote me ) , it was the design that let the original down. Even though the tower is 8 storeys taller I think, at least I hope it has a chance!
Quote:
Of the three, Brunswick and Chieftain no chance, Central station I would think has every chance of being built.
I really don't like this thread.
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Old October 10th, 2005, 01:17 AM   #14
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Exclamation Maybe the grass isn`t always greener?

http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread...71#post5707571

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I think some people are living in fantasy land when it comes to Manchester and high rises!

Realistically by 2010 we will have 2 skyscrapers built - the Beetham Hilton and Eastgate towers. Then around 2011 the Hardman Square will be up. By 2020 maybe another 2 or 3 skyscrapers. So in total by 2020 Manchester/Salford will have around 5 or 6 skyscrapers (ie. 150m and more).

What's interesting is the number of 100m - 150m towers that will go up. The skyline will get denser and denser and will look quite amazing in 10 years time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I actually like Manchester (but i`d never tell them, lol) but looking through some of the posts on their forum I`d say that Liverpool isn`t as far behind as Manchester would like to think.

In any case all development in the North West is good - but independant and viable cities should be prefered but working in harmony.

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Old October 10th, 2005, 12:35 PM   #15
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With plans being regularly shot down, it's easy to think we're falling behind, but I agree, I don't think we're as far behind our neighbours along the M62 as people like to think.

With regards to which tower (Chieftan, Central, Brunswick) will get permission, we've now moved on a few months from the original posts in this thread, and Chieftan and Brunswick are down for the count (again in the case of the latter). So surely now the question must be, which tower, (Chieftan or Brunswick) will gain permission through the back door. That is to say like Beetham West, because LCC can't afford, or won't fight a court case to block it.

I'd say both proposals have a good chance of getting permission this way, although I'd say Chieftan have more chance due to it's location in a Tall Buildings Area, next to existing tall buildings (student blocks), and being literally across the street from another tall building, recently given planning permission. Remind me again, why did this fail?
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Old October 10th, 2005, 08:58 PM   #16
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I wouldn't be surprised if the above three proposals, were built, maybe not at the 1st/2nd/3rd attempt, but in the end they may all be built. These developers still own the land/property, and when the council starts to get more used to existing tall developments, they will approve more. The developers will also be more experienced in cooperating with the planning dept and vice versa.
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Old October 10th, 2005, 11:16 PM   #17
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Wink Were the Liverpool Forum Goes,,the Daily Post follows...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris B

So surely now the question must be, which tower, (Chieftan or Brunswick) will gain permission through the back door. That is to say like Beetham West, because LCC can't afford, or won't fight a court case to block it.:
Democracy---where ?

Excellent article in todays Daily Post by Larry Neild highlighting the problems the planning committee face having no money to fight developers appeals,
below are extracts from LN article:......................

[I]Tesco want to extend their Allerton store has met with considerable oppostion, much of it from people against the loss of open space, despite opposition the planning managers are saying the plan should be given the green light.
What will happen at tomorrows planning committee meeting, if the usual procedures are followed,is that the committee members will be warned that ,if they go against the planning managers recommendation the applicants may well appeal. If they win the appeal the council will have to pay their costs. Seems to be an inequity because if the appliantslost an appeal should`nt they pay the councils costs?
Invariably,faced with the threat of the council having to dig deep, the committee caves in and rubber stamps the recommendation

So why bother having a committee at all if the decisions are all but cut and dried at officer level? Money could be saved by having two rubber stamps--a YES and a NO.

IT SEEMS THAT THE POLITICIANS HANDS ARE TIED BY THE THREAT OF HAVING TO PAY. What they need is a budget of a million quid so that the planning committee can be free to respond to the wishes of the electorate.
Let them vote against the recommendations of the planners if they wish to, and accept that having (potentially) to pay is a small price for democracy.

If a large section of a community do not want a pub,restaurant,amusement arcade,sex shop or bail hostel within their community they should be entitled to the support of the people chosen to represent their views in the council chamber.
Democracy as a word has been devalued so much that it needs a refreshed description in the Oxford dictionary:

Let councillors, not officers, be the decision makers[/I]


Larry Neild is only saying what we here on this forum have been saying for months, although this could be a two edged sword, if the council had the loot to fight Beetham ! we may not now be waiting for the tower crane to be erected. Does Larry read this forum, I wonder!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old October 10th, 2005, 11:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pietari
I actually like Manchester (but i`d never tell them, lol) but looking through some of the posts on their forum I`d say that Liverpool isn`t as far behind as Manchester would like to think.

In any case all development in the North West is good - but independant and viable cities should be prefered but working in harmony.

Liverpool is very much behind Manchester in terms of development, and Leeds too. I'd say its ahead of Birmingham though. Not sure about Glasgow.
That post you quoted was only refferring to the amount of 150m+ buildings Manchester would have by 2010. 150m is very tall!
Liverpool only has one building on the cards over 150m, and its prospects are looking very dull.
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Old October 10th, 2005, 11:41 PM   #19
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Who pays for democracy ?

Tricky one this as you want the council to have money be able to fight stupid proposals (Walton etc) yet not get in the way of those that should go ahead. The question is who gets to decide which is which especially when political motivation gets involved.

One solution tried in my sector (utilities) here in the US is that the proponents get to fund the costs of the objectors. Trouble is that you now have a whole industry of lawyers who are incentivized to persuade their clients to object to everything even if its a no brainer so they can bill for services.

Well this is California (land of fruit and nuts) and as they say - only in the USA!!
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Old October 11th, 2005, 03:34 AM   #20
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Arrow electronic evolution .....

http://www.british-publishing.com/Pa...lectronic.html

electronic evolution

On-line Liverpool – the most technology-friendly city in the UK is at the forefront of advances in electronic technology.

It all began in 1715 with the Leverpole Courante, a primitive and short-lived newspaper, which was later succeeded by the more successful Williamson's Advertiser. Ever since these early attempts at self-expression and publication, Liverpool has been putting its message across – a quality nowhere more evident than in the compilation of the Capital of Culture bid!

Our media savvy is ever-more apparent today – not only through our newspapers, the Daily Post and the Liverpool Echo – read by almost 500,000 people a day – and by our TV and radio stations – but through our grasp of information technology. Prophetically, it was Sir Oliver Lodge, Physics Professor at Liverpool University at the end of the nineteenth century, who sent the first ever radio message.

And with this background in mind, it should not be too surprising that nowadays Liverpool is the UK's prime city for electronic technology. Capitalising on Lodge's legacy, Liverpool was the first University in the UK to put a degree course in e-business on its curriculum and the first anywhere in Europe to establish an interactive internet based degree – an M.Sc course in information technology.

Liverpool City Council is regarded as the flagship authority for aspects of electronic government.

direct objectives
Liverpool Direct – the £500 million call centre set up in collaboration with BT – is the public face of the council's commitment to all things 'e'. The ambitious 24/7 call centre venture has been astonishing. 86 per cent of people using Liverpool Direct say their query is resolved – and the centre receives a hefty 45,000 calls per week.

Executive member for e-government Chris Newby explains: Five years ago we decided to become the most technology-friendly city in the UK. The best way forward was with a big player as a partner. We picked BT and became the first council in the UK to sign a very large contract of this sort with an outside partner.



Staff who run the 300-seat call centre are seconded to BT while still being in overall City Council employment, in a unique working arrangement. At the moment the e-government workforce is approaching 500 and is scheduled to rise to 700 by the end of 2005, a capacity which allows Liverpool Direct to commission work from councils, housing associations and the private sector. Our aim is to answer incoming calls within 20 seconds and also to make the technology widely available and understood, says Chris Newby. Part of this process involves the installing of computer kiosks or pods - the first of which are already in place.

The aim is that eventually everyone in the city will live within 10 minutes' walk of a means to contact the council for free.

pods get the nod
An army of pavement pods is being put into place in Liverpool to enable people to make quick connections to the city culture and know-how. The pods give easy access to a whole range of City Council services, Capital of Culture events and sport – and will contribute to Liverpool’s drive to be among the premier ranked tourist cities in Europe. The 11 foot tall pods are durable and hard-wearing with colourful, easy-to-see touch screens. BT check and maintain the pods four times a week and all the information is available in Spanish, French, Chinese and Somali, as well as English – with more languages to follow.

Liverpool is a seaport AND an e-port, Chris Newby says.This project is the latest example of how we are using cutting edge technology to revolutionise our service and to reach out to customers in new ways.

on-line payments
A whole new spectrum of electronic payment options is making settling bills less of a chore for the council's private and business customers throughout Liverpool.

Council tax, business rates, housing rents. community charges, parking fines, mortgage and service charges and invoices can now all be paid on-line. The system is simple, entailing logging onto www.liverpool.gov.uk – the council's website – and following the clearly worded on-screen instructions.

The site is security-protected and payments can be made using debit or credit card. Liverpool City Council Chief Executive Sir David Henshaw says:The on-line payments service means we are offering even more ways to access council services, make payments and get information. It's all about using new technology to give people more choice. Customers can now either contact our call centre, Liverpool Direct, visit one of the city's one-stop shops, or log onto our on-line service. It's the next stage of our drive to deliver all possible services electronically, making life easier for local people and businesses.

Councillor Keith Turner, executive member for resources, says: I'm delighted that our on-line payments service is up and running. It will help bring council services even closer to our customers.

Thousands of Liverpool people now have access to a computer, at home, or through their local library, and we are offering a convenient, accessible service which will allow them to pay their council tax, or a fine, or a rent, at a location and time that suits them.

super information highway
The clinical world of computer technology is not normally associated with compassion and social care. But a radical policy adopted by Liverpool City Council is using the information highway to make life easier and happier for more vulnerable people in the community.

Under one brand of ‘We Can Help’ the Council offers three helplines for those who encounter racial harassment, domestic violence or family problems.
Careline, for young people, has social workers on hand in the call centre to offer practical solutions.

Another scheme is Lifecard, a world-first system which helps adopted children find out about their past by using the internet. Lifecard's website includes video clips provided by the birth parents, social workers and teachers and other friends who knew them as babies and young children. Also posted are photographs of the adopted children as babies, family trees, information about family courts and the adoption procedure and a special file which can only be accessed on the 18th birthday.

C-Net is a £1million internet project, which ensures all children in care have access to a computer and gives them information on health, leisure and education. Young people have been instrumental in setting up the site, which has a message board where they can contact the City Council. The launch of C-Net coincided with the distribution of 600 computers to residential and foster homes.

Telecare involves the other end of the age spectrum, with remote monitoring equipment being used to keep a watchful eye on elderly people living in their own homes.

More than £400,000 has been spent on provision of the system which uses wireless sensors to spot for such warning signs as lack of movement around the home or a cooker left on for a long time. The sensors activate a telephone with a recorded message to alert the elderly person.

Councillor Jeremy Chowings, executive member for Social Care and Health says: There are many people in Liverpool who need our help and support, and we are committed to improving social care for adults and children alike. Among our recent achievements have been the launch of a 24 hour hotline – Careline – which means people can call at any time day or night and speak to a social worker about their concerns.

the benefits boon
An estimated £1.4 million in extra benefits take-up has resulted from the changeover to a paperless process. Electronic storage and retrieval of claimants' details has eliminated the administrative nightmare of coping with a staggering 5 million documents.

Peter Cosgrove, assistant executive director responsible for the revenues and benefits service says: Previously our documents were spread across hundreds of filing cabinets and it could take considerable time to locate one form. Now we have a document management system which means staff in the call centre and One Stop Shops can access a claimant's detail at the click of a mouse.

Calls from Liverpool Direct staff to people at home have led to the extra benefit take-up – the spin-off of which is a corresponding arrears reduction.

ICDC
It may be located in an historic setting – within the shadow of Liverpool's Anglican Cathedral – but the International Centre for Digital Content pays testimony to this city's thoroughly futuristic outlook.

Mersey TV, Liverpool John Moores University and the Learning Methods Unit are the contributory partners to ICDC, which aims to keep Liverpool as a key player in new media.

The 40 strong ICDC team are involved in a host of electronic projects, including Liverpool 2007 – the web history of Liverpool; V-Mule, a virtual user learning environment; Eurocitizen, the European knowledge quiz; and i-build, a web-based tool which makes creating and maintaining web sites simple.

The centre works with schools in the North-West, on socially responsible projects including programmes to benefit those with learning difficulties and to promote aspects of health, as well as continuing to promote and deepen Liverpool's niche as a digital innovator. ICDC's two-pronged approach is to provide the tools for displaying and disseminating information – and to facilitate easy, widespread and democratic access.

The centre's activities encompass teaching, as well as research and production. Outreach is to all educational sectors from postgraduate and undergraduate to vocational training, short courses and workshops in schools.

Mersey Television's input into the centre – in which it acts as touchstone for industrial needs and as a bridge between industry and academia – reflects the Liverpool TV company's commitment to technology as well as production values.

mersey tv
Almost a quarter of a century after being founded by the dynamic Phil Redmond, Mersey TV continues to beam out top quality uncompromising programmes for the small screen. It is responsible for two of Britain's favourite youth dramas, ‘Hollyoaks’ and ‘Grange Hill’.

‘Hollyoaks’ has come of age, moving from one to five nights a week on Channel Four since its launch in 1995. The supporting website www.hollyoaks.com receives an average of 18 million hits per month.

Mersey TV is also developing feature length material for film, television, DVD and broadband through Mersey Film, including the release of ‘Brookside: Unfinished Business’.

The group's development company, Conker Media, produces innovative concepts for film, television and the web, including ‘Drug Runners’ for Bravo and ‘Made In The Northwest’ for Granada. Conker Media also manages on-line, digital and media projects.

Mersey Television remains Britain's biggest permanent employer in the independent production sector.

great news for granada
Granada Television has close links with Liverpool's Capital of Culture triumph. Liverpool-born Susan Woodward, Granada Television’s Managing Director and Director of ITV's Regional Affairs strategy for ITV plc was seconded to the Capital of Culture team during the Bid process. She wrote the Creative section of the winning bid and remains as a full Board Director of the Liverpool Culture Company.

‘The World In One City’ was the Granada programme that reflected on Liverpool's Capital of Culture success and forecast just what the win would mean for the City and North West as a whole. With contributions from bid leader Sir Bob Scott, City Council Leader Councillor Mike Storey and Chief Executive Sir David Henshaw, the programme was narrated by former Brookside actress Claire Sweeney.

Granada’s regional news service continues to cover events as they unfold in the City in the build up to 2008. Granada has close links with Liverpool Football Club and has joined forces with the Reds to fund the ‘IT's Never Too Late’ computer on-line learning initiative at the Vernon Sangster Sports Centre in Anfield, which encourages adults to take their first steps towards electronic literacy.

a gateway to understanding
Using 21st century technology to appreciate the past is the central idea of the Mersey Gateway Project, which is creating an electronic local history showcase. With themes of docks and shipping, the slave trade, people and places, health and welfare, transport and Merseyside at War, the Gateway archive will hold more than 500 stories and 20,000 images.

The aim of the project, which has been financed by the New Oportunities Fund, is to stimulate awareness and interest in Merseyside's rich and chequered history.

Additionally, Port Cities is a national consortium of museums, libraries and archives who have collaborated to open up their collections on line.

The Port Cities websites – in which Liverpool is included along with Bristol, Hartlepool, London and Southampton – draw on digitised materials to engage users with stories of people, places and events which make up our maritime heritage.
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