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Old June 20th, 2005, 05:55 AM   #521
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I've heard same height, but where did you get "smaller?" I'm not saying that it wasn't said...but if it was, I missed it.

And get off the horse. There's no need to "bring me back to reality," as I never left.
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Old June 20th, 2005, 06:31 AM   #522
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I just mentioned it b/c everyone is discussing it being as large as the current usbank building. I've talked to someone who was directly involved in the talks of the new tower, and my info was confirmed a few weeks later by an article in the Journal that was posted right here in this thread.

And geeze relax, don't take it as a personal attack. I'm just thinking our discussions would be fruitful if we discuss it in the terms for which are most likely going to happen.
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Old June 20th, 2005, 07:42 AM   #523
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Ya'll are getting busy on this thready lately, I leave for a couple of days and I've got pages and pages to catch up on (I'm not complaining though, this thread is harboring some great discussion). I'm going to continue to just read them, because my opinion is usually covered by one of you guys, no need to re-post anything.

I do have a question though. First off, I'm a huge fan of the summerfest line-up this year and I'm happy that Summerfest has let go of some of it's previous mainstream headliners. But is anyone else worried that Summerfest isn't competing as well as it can be in its market?

With Lallapolooza kicking off this year in Grant Park (with some kick-ass bands--my friends and I have already rented a hotel), I'm worried the festival is going to lose a large share of it's audience. Summerfest and Lalla. are messing around with some pretty similar genres in music, I'm debating which one is going to suffer, and crossing my fingers it won't be Summerfest.

Am I off base?
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Old June 20th, 2005, 08:19 AM   #524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastSider
With Lallapolooza kicking off this year in Grant Park (with some kick-ass bands--my friends and I have already rented a hotel), I'm worried the festival is going to lose a large share of it's audience. Summerfest and Lalla. are messing around with some pretty similar genres in music, I'm debating which one is going to suffer, and crossing my fingers it won't be Summerfest.

Am I off base?
Interesting point. I think Summerfest only risks losing out to Lallapolooza with respect to those people who would go to Summerfest solely to see the marquee bands but who decide to go to Lalla instead. There are still countless others who go to Summerfest for other reasons, e.g., to wander around and eat food, get drunk, see fireworks, etc. (me, for example). I don't think the presence of Lalla will divert them away from Summerfest.
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Old June 20th, 2005, 08:58 AM   #525
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Originally Posted by CG5
^ Actually, as far as I've seen in the way of numbers, Milwaukee is actually building new residential units faster than Minneapolis. MSP may be going taller, and the rate of construction may be changing, but over the past few years Milwaukee has been booming...um...bigger, I guess.

Neph, what the hell did you smoke dood? You sound like all of the mentally handicapped noobs we've been seeing in here recently. Seriously though, I don't know why you're so down on the city's prospects. Saying that Milwaukee isn't in the midst of a boom just because we're not building a 700-foot tower yet seems kind of silly. Honestly, I'd rather see a hundred CityGreen-like developments all over the city than a new tallest building downtown. As long as people are moving into Milwaukee and bringing their money and ideas with them, I'm totally cool. And yes, I call it a boom. We could never build another thing over 600 feet again and I'd be fine with that, as long as the economy was healthy, the people were happy, and crime rates were low.

As for what we have in development after UCT is finished...well, first off, UCT won't be done for another 1-2 years, so developers have time to get the ball rolling on new projects. On top of that, there's the potential for a huge corporation (Manpower) to move thousands of jobs downtown, which could be cause for a new 'scraper. And the USBank kids are apparently serious about this new project, so we just may be getting a new tallest building...and while I consider that a long shot, the point is that I'm actually considering it. Had it been proposed five years ago, I would have laughed it off and never given it a second thought. (Remember the random proposal reported by the BizJournal to turn the Port into a new highrise district?) More and more people are starting to take Milwaukee seriously...why is a long-time fan falling out now?
Please take what I wrote as a rant out of frustration. LOL, I wasn't smoking anything but did have a few High Life's.

I know downtown Milwaukee's residential market is going through a boom. I really didn't mean to talk about the residential side of this though. When was the last time an office building was built with class A space? Cathedral Place and 875 East Wi. but the majority of Cathedral Place is condos or retail and 875, even though I loved the design, is what? 9 floors. These two buildings represent all that has been built concerning office space since 1991.

I just see these news reports of law firms saying their looking to move and or need extra space and I see companies such as Manpower saying they want to move and are in the market. I don't know the numbers but it seems to me the demand is there so instead of talking about a possibility lets see some real proposals. Milwaukee needs someone like that guy from Madison who proposed that 500 plus ft. building in Madison. He didn't wait for studies but said this is what I got, what do you think?

Now we know that there has been some proposals already such as Ovation and that 24 floor office tower on Wisconsin but neither one of those building designs were anything that I would call makeing a signiture on the Milwaukee skyline. trust me, I don't care whether the building is 500 ft or 800 ft just as long as the design is inovative and new. Something that a law firm who wishes to expand can say to themselves, "I want my firm in that building".

After saying all that, please don't worry about me. I am not going through a falling out but just had to get my frustrations out. I'm still a big fan of Milwaukee and still believe she is heading in the right direction. perhaps just a little slower than what I would wish...
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Old June 20th, 2005, 09:06 AM   #526
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The Godfrey & Kahn law firm is considering a possible relocation into one of two proposed mixed-use towers in Downtown--Ovation Plaza and Lake Point Tower. The firm has also not ruled out the possibility of staying put in its current location in the M&I Bank building just south of City Hall.

Ovation Plaza is a proposal by Irgens Development Partners, and has been on the boards for a couple years now, in search of an anchor tenant. It would be built on N. Water Street between E. State Street and E. Highland Avenue, a site now occupied by the Marcu Center's parking structure. The proposed height ranges in the 20-story area (different figures have been given in previous articles), and would include office and retail space, condos, and a parking garage.

Lake Point Tower is the name of the most recent incarnation of a proposed "sister tower" to the US Bank Center. US Bancorp is working with develoeprs from JBK Properties to make the proposal become a reality. It would be built on E. Michigan Street, south of the US Bank Center. Developers would like the tower to include office and retail space, condos, and a hotel. Note the article reports Lake Point Tower is still being proposed as a 42-story high-rise.

Read all about it in the Business Journal article: Godfrey & Kahn considers two office building sites - Firm hasn't ruled out current location


***


The owners of Midtown Center--the urban-oriented retail development built upon the ruins of the former Capitol Court Mall--have plans for expanded development. Plans include developing some of the outlots on the site that were set aside for future development when the first phases of Midtown Center were built between 2000 and 2004. The owners already have a few tenants lined up, but have so far declined to mention any specifics, aside from that they will be smaller retailers, no "big box" retailers. Midtown Center, which has been deemed a success within the inner city neighborhood, already includes a Pick N Save, Wal-Mart, and Lowes, plus several smaller retailers.

More in the Business Journal: Midtown will grow again


***


The Business Journal reviews responses from a recent reader survey concerning the possibility of relocating the Potawatomi Casino to a Downtown site: Public support lacking for casino move


***


An opinion piece from the Business Journal about the perception problem of the Garnville Station/Northridge area: Address Northridge 'perception problem'


***


Another Business Journal opinion piece from Milwaukee-area business leaders supporting the proposed Metra commuter rail extension from Kenosha into Milwaukee: Business support growing for commuter rail


***


And another opinion piece from the Business Journal regarding PabstCity: 'Do the math' on PabstCity TIF


***

With PabstCity being such a hot topic of debate these days, the Jornal Sentienl ran some opinion pieces in the "Crossroads" section this past weekend...

A downtown boost — or threat? - Supporters say all will benefit from visitors and dollars PabstCity attracts, but some area business

Public investments can be better spent

Is it a blue-ribbon idea? - Let's blow the foam off and drink to the future


***


Plans are underway to restore another house along Milwaukee's unofficial "Frank lloyd Wright Row." A series of six houses designed by the master architect were built on the 2700 block of W. Burnham Street during 1915-16. They are examples of the so-called American System-Built Homes--which Wright envisioned as well-designed, affordable housing for working-class families, and an early attempt at mass produced hosuing (an idea that did not take off at that time).

Last year the Frank Lloyd Wright Wisconsin group (a.k.a. the Frank Lloyd Wright Wisconsin Heritage Tourism Program) purchased one of the houses with plans to restore it with the aid of other FLW groups and the Historic Preservation Institute at the UWM School of Architecture and Urban Planning. Long-term plans for that house may include becoming a vacation rental property, an idea that has been used at other Wright-designed houses in Wisconsin.

FLW Wisconsin has also just recently purchased a duplex on the same block, and plans to restore the building to its original design based on Wright's old drawings. Restoration work will include replacing the aluminum siding (a later alteration to the duplex) with stucco, as it was originally built. Long-term plans for the duplex are still uncertain at this point, but the organization might use one unit as an office and another as a museum of sorts, available for pucllic tours. For now, the duplex will remain a rental property.

FLW Wisconsin is organizing fund raising efforts and plans to establish an endowment to maintian both properties.

A third Wright house on the block, privately owned, has already been restored by its owners. The remianing three Wright houses on the block range in condition from extensively remodeled to heavily neglected.

From the Journal Sentinel: Group to make Wright house right - Duplex will be stripped of aluminum siding and returned to its original stucco


^ This duplex at 2724-26 W. Burnham Street is the second house designed by Frank Lloyd Wright on the block that will be restored by the FLW Wisconsin organization. Work will include stripping off the unoriginal aluminum siding which will be replaced with stucco as originally designed.
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Old June 20th, 2005, 09:07 AM   #527
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Urban development sometimes can't move fast enough. Of course, if we had it the other way around, we'd probably find a way to complain about that, too. Lol.

As for Summerfest, I almost never go to the shows at the Amp, unless I'm dying to see someone who's playing there. I go for the afternoon and stay for the good shows at night...and I have to say, while I'm only thrilled about two acts this year (as opposed to six last year), there are still several bands that I'm excited to see. I'm really looking forward to Summerfest...it just feels the tiniest bit...flat(?) this year. I don't, however, see Lollapalooza cutting into Summerfest that much.
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Old June 20th, 2005, 09:09 AM   #528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldwake
I hate to be the one to bring you all back to reality... but as I've said before, USbank does not plan on building another 42 story building. It will be smaller, they have said that point blank. Not that I wouldn't love another building that tall, I'm just not getting my hopes up that they will do a complete 180 from all their previous statements.
It doesn't matter to me whether the building is as tall or taller than the US Bank. I do hope it will be something that is so awesome that even if it's no higher than the 411 Building it will still make it a signiture building on the skyline. The Kilbourne Tower came close to this, now lets see an office building do the same thing!
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Old June 20th, 2005, 09:44 AM   #529
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Thanks for the info, Mark.

That "Address Northridge 'perception problem'" article was pretty interesting, too.
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Old June 20th, 2005, 08:16 PM   #530
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Summerfest headliners suck pretty hard this year. Im 19, not 40 years old....give some modern music. Bring in some major rap acts for christsake. People in this city get so worried about drawing in black people and then fights/riots breaking out. Thats the problem with Summerfest now..it markets towards middle aged white people. Some of the lesser musical acts are pretty decent--but they are all old bands! Morris Day and the Time, Issac Hayes...etc. The only headliner I want to see is Santana.
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Old June 20th, 2005, 08:44 PM   #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddAlert
Summerfest headliners suck pretty hard this year. Im 19, not 40 years old....give some modern music. Bring in some major rap acts for christsake. People in this city get so worried about drawing in black people and then fights/riots breaking out. Thats the problem with Summerfest now..it markets towards middle aged white people. Some of the lesser musical acts are pretty decent--but they are all old bands! Morris Day and the Time, Issac Hayes...etc. The only headliner I want to see is Santana.
Middle-aged white people probably spend more money on Miller beer products and the food selections available at the grounds. At least that's my poorly-informed perception.
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Old June 20th, 2005, 08:55 PM   #532
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Your absolutely correct!


but cant they get someone like a Kanye West?
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Old June 20th, 2005, 09:02 PM   #533
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They had some major rap acts last year, and it was like ******* SWATfest.
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Old June 20th, 2005, 09:16 PM   #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddAlert
Summerfest headliners suck pretty hard this year. Im 19, not 40 years old....give some modern music. Bring in some major rap acts for christsake. People in this city get so worried about drawing in black people and then fights/riots breaking out. Thats the problem with Summerfest now..it markets towards middle aged white people. Some of the lesser musical acts are pretty decent--but they are all old bands! Morris Day and the Time, Issac Hayes...etc. The only headliner I want to see is Santana.
I thought the same thing when I saw the lineup.

That said, the Marcus Amphitheatre sucks. To me, the Marcus is the abyss at one end of an otherwise great festival. Sound quality is terrible there and it isolates itself from the atmosphere so much. I would much prefer to see the 'B' bands at the Miller Oasis than to pay extra for the corporate rock at the Marcus (disclaimer: I am seeing the Pixies/Weezer this year).

The new director has even made some comments on the effort to improve the quality of the crowd at the expense of quantity. From a business perspective, I can see where he's coming from. However, part of the magic of that festival is the diversity of it's audience. If anything, I would look for ways to appeal to a wider audience, not just a richer one.

NeuBrew's ways to improve Summerfest.

1. Expand onto the peninsula. This area needs to be relatively open and park-like with an eclectic mix of real small stages and street performers. I would build an attractive footbridge on the north-end. Ideally, we could ask Calatrava to design this to accent the Art Museum. I really enjoy his work with bridges.

2. Find a way to attract families back to the park. At nighttime, the crowd turns into a drunken frenzy and the families have been scared away. The real problem is that everyone needs to head down two main paths. The first being the stage route, which is a large party and no place for a stroller. The second is the lake route, which is dimly lit and is a favorite for goth kids (nothing against goth kids, but they scare small children). By adding some open areas for families on the peninsula I think you can bring back some of the magic.

3. Light rail. Yeah, it's a popular answer for anything but I would still like to see it. The buses are fine (if not a bit raucous), but I think mass transit heading into the city and hotels from the grounds would be terrific. Pipe dream: will never happen.
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Old June 20th, 2005, 09:16 PM   #535
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all they really had last year was Big Boi with Ludacris and Twista. It should have been Twista and Ludacris with Big Boi. The only act they have this year is Talib Kweli. Next year, they should get Snoop Dogg.
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Old June 20th, 2005, 09:34 PM   #536
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Summerfest has long tried to be all things for all people, and the result is a festival that's way too big for its own good. I went to see one of my favorite acts there last summer and I could barely enjoy the show over the din of public intoxication and music leakage from the neighboring stage. Maybe I'm sounding like a curmedgeon here. Maybe I'm simply getting too old for Summerfest, yet still way too young for acts like Deep Purple. I will be going this year, and hopefully I'll have a better time.

Having said that, I do think in recent years Summerfest has been veering too far into the direction of being a fest for Baby Boomers and college kids from the suburbs.
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Old June 21st, 2005, 04:51 PM   #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeuBrew
1. Expand onto the peninsula. This area needs to be relatively open and park-like with an eclectic mix of real small stages and street performers. I would build an attractive footbridge on the north-end. Ideally, we could ask Calatrava to design this to accent the Art Museum. I really enjoy his work with bridges.
That'd be nice to see Calatrava do something with Harbor Island, but Lake Shore State Park and Municipal Pier are already planned out and ready for construction....
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Old June 22nd, 2005, 01:47 AM   #538
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continue discussion on Milwaukee Development News III

this thread has surpassed its 500 post max.
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