daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Continental Forums > North American Skyscrapers Forum > General > NASF Archive



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


 

 
Thread Tools
Old November 24th, 2005, 02:04 AM   #121
Lexy
Fly Nashville!
 
Lexy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Nashville
Posts: 770
Likes (Received): 21

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilson758
I think that this map is pretty much reflective of TV market, which, in that case, Louisville's is small. Also, Indianapolis is the capitol of the State, so it is certainly going to have more influence than a city located outside of the State. Also, I hate to say it, but I would think that a pro team would factor in too. Teams get on radio and TV stations outside of "their" market and people identify with that. Just my opinion.


As for Evansville, I disagree. I have been down there plenty and even though there is no direct interstate access to Indpls, there is air service (or was, ATA may have pulled it). And back to the State Capitol point, any news for the State is coming out of Indy, so you can bet that the local news stations spend a lot of time in Indy. People may drive to Louisville to shop, but is the shopping that much better to warrant a large number of people from Evansville to Louisville? My impression of Evansville is that because it is relatively isolated it therefore has a good amount of retailers to choose from, despite its size. Certainly, Louisville has retailers not found in Evansville, but Indy has everything that Louisville has plus more. So, if they are going to make a drive, would they not just go to Indy? I don't know. <Please, don't think I am dissing L'ville, just trying to give another perspective of this map>

Again, I think that Louisville's location is dwhat hurts it here. Too close to Cincy, Indy, and Nashville.
I agree. Having lived for 21 years of my life in the Evansville 'sphere', I feel it has enough options for shopping. In my hometown, you never went to Louisville unless it was on business or family. Shopping was done in either Nashville or Evansville/Owensboro. It has two malls (Washington Square and the popular Eastland Mall) with every store you could find in them like a Macy's and Sears. Restarurants out the ass and much much more. Owensboro itself has everything you need for shopping. Its not a knock, but the isolation of Evansville and Owensboro has caused them to actually have things you wouldn't expect a city its size to have. Of course, this is my personal experiences, you can take them with a grain of salt. I do know as far as TV goes, the Nashville stations are on all western KY cable providers. Comcast or Insight, doesn't carry the Louisville stations past Leitchfield in western Ky. Owensboro may get them, but I am not sure on it.
__________________
-Nashville, Tennessee-

Nashville, the next great southern city.
Nashville @ PBase: http://www.flickr.com/photos/perspectivephotography
Lexy no está en línea  

Sponsored Links
Old November 24th, 2005, 06:09 AM   #122
gych
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 795
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by eweezerinc

<Please, don't think I am dissing L'ville, just trying to give another perspective of this map>

Sorry man but no excuses. After as many clashes you've had with gych, you should know better than to come in a nd say, well, really anything about Louisville (lol) but particularly something negative.
My predictions are that you will burn sorely for this.

And Indy does not have everything Louisville has. Maybe department stores, but I personally don't give a poop about department stores.
The only dprtmnt store I shop at is Dillards and thats cause my sister gets employee discounts.
The places to find awsome stuff in Lousville are places that are unique. Locally owned. And I think we beat Indy there.
But of course I've never really gone shopping in Indy, so maybe I'm wrong.
Lol Cwilson think what he wants, we all know its not true. Great so Indy has a department store we dont have which is Saks. Von Maur here is much nicer than the ones in Indy and blows downtown Indy's Nordstrom out of the water for selection. It is just different here, as eweezerinc said, we support local stores, upscale boutiques, etc, and Indy really just doesnt have as many of those things. The best way I can describe it is Louisville is like a huge Bloomington, IN, very cultured, unique, and independent. Cwilson always comes on here thinking he knows all tho

And despite what you think Cwilson, you are dead wrong about evansville. When they want a little bigger city, they hit Louisville, if they want a bigger city theyll hit Chicago or even Saint Louis. For you to claim the shopping here isnt much better than Evansville is pure ******* ignorance. Indy doesnt have the old school hotels or the restuarants we have here either.
gych no está en línea  
Old November 24th, 2005, 11:50 AM   #123
lou-villian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 203
Likes (Received): 0

Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilson758
I think that this map is pretty much reflective of TV market, which, in that case, Louisville's is small. Also, Indianapolis is the capitol of the State, so it is certainly going to have more influence than a city located outside of the State. Also, I hate to say it, but I would think that a pro team would factor in too. Teams get on radio and TV stations outside of "their" market and people identify with that. Just my opinion.


As for Evansville, I disagree. I have been down there plenty and even though there is no direct interstate access to Indpls, there is air service (or was, ATA may have pulled it). And back to the State Capitol point, any news for the State is coming out of Indy, so you can bet that the local news stations spend a lot of time in Indy. People may drive to Louisville to shop, but is the shopping that much better to warrant a large number of people from Evansville to Louisville? My impression of Evansville is that because it is relatively isolated it therefore has a good amount of retailers to choose from, despite its size. Certainly, Louisville has retailers not found in Evansville, but Indy has everything that Louisville has plus more. So, if they are going to make a drive, would they not just go to Indy? I don't know. <Please, don't think I am dissing L'ville, just trying to give another perspective of this map>

Again, I think that Louisville's location is dwhat hurts it here. Too close to Cincy, Indy, and Nashville.

So you mean to tell me that INdianapolis has more influence over the S.Indiana counties in Louisville metro.LOL LOL LOL Dude I'm not trying to be rude but man you are off track. I'm born and raised in louisville lived there all my life but I live in Jeffersonville. Most of the residents in Jeff, New Albany and Clarksville are Louisville and Kentucky born. They just chose to live in the Suburbs. Most people over here couldn't even Tell you who the governor of Indiana is. Once you get past Scottsburg you may have a argument. Anything south of Scottsburg is all ville influenced. I really don't think people in Central Indiana and Nothern Indiana realize how little influence the state of INdiana has in this area. I'm telling its zero, people move to Indiana from Louisville because the cost to live is much cheaper. The only thing we know about Indiana is that its cheaper to live over here than across the bridge in the ville. I will say with a straight face you are way off base with that one. How is a top 50 TV market considered small? That map is not a map of TV Markets, if so then Cincy's market is just as small as Louisville, and Cincy has a larger TV market than INdy and the ville according to the census, I don't even know where that argument came from. People in Northern Kentucky have no ties to the state of Kentucky, those people will tell you they are from Cincinnati, just like I can honestly say most people from Jeff, New Albany, Clarksville and Charlestown will tell you they are from Louisville. These folks get very very very little Indiana news if any. Just like the people in the Cincinnati metro in Indiana have no clue what goes on in the state capital in Indianapolis, the only way they will find is through the internet. The only thing they here in the Lou metro is a few Colts highlights, they can tell you who the quarterback for the Colts is before they could the Governor. IF you want to believe that Indiana dominates these parts your sadly mistaken, but by all means do so, but I've lived in this area mostly all my life and its absurd to think that Indiana is dominating this market. The only thing keeping folks in Clarksville, Jeff, and New Albany Kentucky residents is the ohio river. You see more Kentucky license plates over here than Indiana. If you know something I don't let me know. I do appreciate your opinion, I just had to correct you on a few things.

We are being dwarfed by what? The folks that travel to louisville to work and or to shop and or to receive medical treatment our the folks that live in this area, so what are we being dwarfed by. Being close to Indy, Nashville and Cincy, has NOTHING to do with NOTHING. What does that have to do with anything? Peoples personal choice? Peoples preference? That I don't understand help me out. If I'm understanding you correctly, couldn't you say the same thing about the other cities? I guess if i'm following logic correctly since we are so close to those places we are losing out on something? That logic applies 4 ways I guess. The being dwarfed part lost me hopefully you can explain to me what you meant by that. I'm not trying to be a ass at all, that kind caught me off guard when you say this area of s.indiana is Indiana influenced.

Last edited by lou-villian; November 24th, 2005 at 01:26 PM.
lou-villian no está en línea  
Old November 24th, 2005, 12:14 PM   #124
lou-villian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 203
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexy
I agree. Having lived for 21 years of my life in the Evansville 'sphere', I feel it has enough options for shopping. In my hometown, you never went to Louisville unless it was on business or family. Shopping was done in either Nashville or Evansville/Owensboro. It has two malls (Washington Square and the popular Eastland Mall) with every store you could find in them like a Macy's and Sears. Restarurants out the ass and much much more. Owensboro itself has everything you need for shopping. Its not a knock, but the isolation of Evansville and Owensboro has caused them to actually have things you wouldn't expect a city its size to have. Of course, this is my personal experiences, you can take them with a grain of salt. I do know as far as TV goes, the Nashville stations are on all western KY cable providers. Comcast or Insight, doesn't carry the Louisville stations past Leitchfield in western Ky. Owensboro may get them, but I am not sure on it.
Trust me I'm aware of all the classic suburban amenties Evansville has, every market in america with atleast 150,000 people has those same classic stores. Actually Bowling Green and E-town(which is pretty much a burb of Louisville) has alot of those same places. I basically made the same point you made in my initial post. I just wasn't talking about TV markets, I don't even know how TV markets came about. Its pointless because WHAS in Louisville goes into some parts of Tennessee, but those folks aren't influenced by Louisville. I was just trying to figure out why Evansville's was so large and why Cincy's was so small those were the places I was comparing. People are going to shop, eat, sleep, and shit in the immediate region. Nashville pretty much has Western and the Southern Kentucky region, thats the largest metro in that region. Louisville has Central Kentucky, Cincy has Nothern Kentukcy and Southern Ohio, Lexington Has eastern Kentucky and so on and so forth. Thank you for pointing that out to me I forgot about Owensboro and Evansville basically sharing the same market outside of paducah thats a nice size area to cover. I can see why the Evansville area would be highlighted more so than cincy I guess.

Last edited by lou-villian; November 24th, 2005 at 01:11 PM.
lou-villian no está en línea  
Old November 24th, 2005, 01:06 PM   #125
lou-villian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 203
Likes (Received): 0

Its funny how a hypothetical map of random sampled people can create a meaningless debate. Anyway has anyone gone to the Ali center yet? If you haven't been its a wonderful facility, and certainly a very attractive place for people of all ages, sexes, races and etc. Definitly a Louisville and Kentucky jewel....
lou-villian no está en línea  
Old November 24th, 2005, 07:27 PM   #126
cwilson758
Cory
 
cwilson758's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Francisco via Indianapolis
Posts: 3,403
Likes (Received): 15

You know, you people are a trip. I only referenced shopping and hands down, it is better here than in Louisville. Hell, it is better here than in Cincy. Gych, we also have Von Maur, 2 to be exact along with out Nordies, Sakes, Parisians, blah blah blah.

AND MY POINT, that so many missed, was that you CAN'T expect an out of state city to have more influence that the effing state capitol. Kid yourself into believing that! Read Lexy's post! I think that since he is from there, I would tend to agree with him. Also, plenty of boutiques in the Indy area as well...remember Carmel and Zionsville?

Lou-villin...:"So you mean to tell me that INdianapolis has more influence over the S.Indiana counties in Louisville metro."

PLEASE TELL ME WHERE IN THE **** I SAID THIS????????? I never once mentioned anything about Indiana countires in the Louisville metro...NEVER!


Gych, you are the know it all. Keep believing you own hype, one day it might come true. Until then, I will continuee to watch indy prosper and run circles around...well, you know!
cwilson758 no está en línea  
Old November 24th, 2005, 09:22 PM   #127
eweezerinc
President of Catan
 
eweezerinc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Louisville/Los Angeles
Posts: 2,282
Likes (Received): 11

You know, you people are a trip. I only referenced shopping and hands down, it is better here than in Louisville. Hell, it is better here than in Cincy. Gych, we also have Von Maur, 2 to be exact along with out Nordies, Sakes, Parisians, blah blah blah.

I do not think that those store make shopping better, as I can say majority population can't afford to shop at those stores. Maybe for upscale people its better, but I can't even shop at Dillards without it be on sale and discounted.

Gych, you are the know it all. Keep believing you own hype, one day it might come true. Until then, I will continuee to watch indy prosper and run circles around...well, you know!

Why do you even come in here? haha
You know it will end up like this if you come in and give us "another perspective".
__________________
Alas, earwax!
eweezerinc no está en línea  
Old November 25th, 2005, 05:19 AM   #128
louisville playa
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Louisville
Posts: 546
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilson758
You know, you people are a trip. I only referenced shopping and hands down, it is better here than in Louisville. Hell, it is better here than in Cincy. Gych, we also have Von Maur, 2 to be exact along with out Nordies, Sakes, Parisians, blah blah blah.

AND MY POINT, that so many missed, was that you CAN'T expect an out of state city to have more influence that the effing state capitol. Kid yourself into believing that! Read Lexy's post! I think that since he is from there, I would tend to agree with him. Also, plenty of boutiques in the Indy area as well...remember Carmel and Zionsville?

Lou-villin...:"So you mean to tell me that INdianapolis has more influence over the S.Indiana counties in Louisville metro."

PLEASE TELL ME WHERE IN THE **** I SAID THIS????????? I never once mentioned anything about Indiana countires in the Louisville metro...NEVER!


Gych, you are the know it all. Keep believing you own hype, one day it might come true. Until then, I will continuee to watch indy prosper and run circles around...well, you know!

Southern Indiana (the counties around Louisville at least) rely on Louisville for retail and upscale eateries and what not, But this coming form a native just about every Louisville native (commoner) does not think of Southern Indiana as a part of Louisville.
Most People in Southern Indiana (except for the 3 Northern counties imediately outside of Louisville) in places like Scottsburg I'd imagine that they'd lean a bit more towards Indianapolis just because it's in their state, it has SOMEWHAT more an upscale shopping selection, and well it's the Capitol.
Louisville's sphere in influence is more around the 3 surounding counties in Southern Indiana, E-town, Bullet, Nelson, Shellby and Oldham County areas and extend towards Franfort and Lexington.
Now I think that Evansville and Owensboro would have a SOMEWHAT large influenced area since there is a lack of large cities in that area, But I don't think it's that much bigger than Louisville's.
louisville playa no está en línea  
Old November 25th, 2005, 07:49 AM   #129
gych
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 795
Likes (Received): 0

^Louisvilleplaya, your third grade education once again shows your ignorance. And your incessant insistance that Catholic schools here are "dying" is ******* ridicuolous, and very illimformed. Catholic schools are closing and merging EVERYWHERE due to inefficiences. Secondly, OF COURSE KY IS MOSTLY ******* BAPTIST---LOUISVILLE IS NOT!!!!! You have still yet to post a fact as to show that bullshit. Sure Louisville has more Christians (all denominations) than any religion just like every city in America. But the amount of Catholics is very high,and there are lots of Jews, Muslims, and ppl of various faiths. I suggest you dont bring me into thsi further bc ur going to lose:Louisville has more Catholic schools than Indy or Nashville and only Cincy has more. Louisville metro has 10 COUNT EM 10 thriving Catholic high schools fueled by the over 40 Catholic elementary schools that supply them.

Your statement that S Indiana isnt a part of Louisville is also pure ignorance. Most Louisvillians know S Indiana is a suburb (those with above a third grade education) but they dont like Indiana bc it is "that other state." Kentuckians have no reason to cross that bridge, althought thousands will now for Bass Pro Shops. Youd also be surprised at the number of West Louisville residents that shop at Walmarts and other stores in S Indiana as they are the closest big retailers--oh wait, you live there and should know this. So, once again, I do feel sorry for you due to your lack of education, but please at least try to post some intelligent stuff?
gych no está en línea  
Old November 25th, 2005, 08:19 AM   #130
Soulbrotha
abdulsharifshoots.com
 
Soulbrotha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: WEST Louisville
Posts: 1,700
Likes (Received): 41

i didn't know a city could have a suburb in another state. But what do i know. I don't view Southern Indiana as a part of Louisville. But thats just me.
Soulbrotha no está en línea  
Old November 25th, 2005, 08:52 AM   #131
gych
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 795
Likes (Received): 0

^Come on Soul, you know better than THAT!!!!! For starters, lets try our 4 nearby cities namely Cincy, STL, Memphis, and KC, all of which have burbs in other states less than 5 minutes from downtown. Of course NYC is the best example. Sure many common people do not know this, but hopefully you are enlightened enough to know???

Also, to quell the bullshit coming from one "playa" here, you go smarty. And FYI, Catholicisim is the largest Christian denomination--and the oldest. I really am tired of schooling ignorance in here. Furthermore, this does not count S Indiana counties which are also largely Catholic and now have heavy Hispanic populations:



Catholic growth shifts across region
Study also shows shortage of priests
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Peter Smith
[email protected]
The Courier-Journal

The local Roman Catholic population is growing and shifting east of the old city of Louisville, according to a study being released today by the Archdiocese of Louisville.

The study found that the number of Catholics in Oldham and Shelby counties grew 264 percent between 1990 and 2000, and continues to boom in northeastern Jefferson County.

Yet a higher proportion of priests, parishes and schools remains in older parts of Louisville, where both the Catholic population and elementary school enrollment shrank between 2000 and 2004, the study shows.

The study also shows the ratio of priests to Catholics is declining, because of a shortage of priests.

The archdiocese commissioned the study to help it plan ministries, staffing and building uses in the 24 Central Kentucky counties it serves, ranging from the large Catholic populations near the Ohio River to the sparse Catholic numbers toward the Tennessee line.

A report on the study makes no recommendations, but the statistics underscore the challenges the archdiocese faces in trying to meet needs in areas where its membership is growing, while maintaining older facilities in urban areas and serving a growing population with fewer priests.

"Now is the study phase, to get people talking about it," said Brian Reynolds, chancellor and chief administrative officer, adding that priests, parish lay leaders and others will discuss the report in coming weeks.

Reynolds said there are no current plans to close any parishes or schools, although he acknowledged, "I expect there will be more closings of both."

But he said it's even more likely that the archdiocese will move "to do sharing across parish boundaries — regional schools, sharing of staffs, regional resources, perhaps even sharing of facilities."

The archdiocese closed eight urban and rural parishes and merged four more in the mid-1990s. And in the past two years, six parish schools closed, and three other parishes merged their schools into the regional Notre Dame Academy.

At the same time, parishes and schools east of central Louisville grew.

Hispanic influx is felt

The study was conducted by Horizon Research International, a Louisville-based firm that studies marketing and demographic data. The firm did not conduct original research but rather analyzed data collected by the archdiocese, universities and the U.S. Census Bureau.

The study showed that 216,600 Catholics lived in the archdiocese's 24 counties in 2000, out of a total population of 1.2 million — representing a 10 percent increase from 1990.

Much of that growth was caused by an influx of Hispanics, the report said.

The archdiocese has no figures on how many Hispanic Catholics live within the archdiocese, but the report based its assumption on several factors, including the high number of Catholics among Hispanics overall, and a near doubling of the Hispanic population in the archdiocese's counties, to about 40,000 in the 2000 U.S. Census.

The archdiocese offers five weekly Masses in Spanish, some of which draw several hundred each week.

Annunciation Church in Shelby County, for example, has Masses in English and Spanish, and has launched social-service programs for Hispanics.

Its pastor, the Rev. Bill Bowling, credits a membership boom both to suburbanization and the influx of Hispanics.

"One of the things we've been wondering is how long we'll be able to fit in our present facilities," Bowling said.

The Catholic population data used in the study came from a survey of all religious groups conducted in 2000 by the Glenmary Research Center of Nashville, Tenn. Glenmary's report says it based its figures on reports from each diocese — but its estimate of 216,600 Catholics in 2000 is about 20,000 higher than the archdiocese's parish records.

Neither Glenmary nor Reynolds could explain the discrepancy last night. But Reynolds said other data and anecdotal evidence support the figures and archdiocesan officials know they need to do a better job reaching out to Catholics with no parish connections.

Seventy-two percent of the Catholics identified in the study live in Metro Louisville, with most of the rest in counties surrounding the merged city.

The 264 percent increase in the number of Catholics in Oldham and Shelby counties comes at a time when overall population there grew by 37 percent.

"Anybody that drives around Oldham County these days can see what's coming up I-71 toward us," said the Rev. Mark Spalding, pastor of Immaculate Conception Church in La Grange, which dedicated a new church on Sunday with a capacity of about 1,000.

The church has grown from about 550 to 800 families in the past five years, with many newcomers commuting to jobs in Jefferson County, Spalding said.

The Catholic population also grew in historic rural Catholic areas around Nelson County, and the tiny population of Catholics in Southern Kentucky doubled, to 1,300. But the number of Catholics in Bullitt and Spencer counties decreased, despite overall population growth there.

The study also found that Catholic school enrollment dropped almost everywhere in the archdiocese except northeastern Jefferson County, where it rose 12 percent, and Oldham and Shelby counties, where it rose 18 percent.

Ranks of priests down

The report also found the nationwide aging and thinning ranks of priests — down 26 percent since 1965 — is taking its toll. The archdiocese has one priest for every 1,186 Catholics, compared with one per 706 in 1970, the study said.

That's one reason, Spalding said, that churches such as his are building large sanctuaries — so that priests can accommodate more people at each Mass.

The number of Catholics served by each parish priest also varies by region, from less than one per thousand in some older Louisville neighborhoods to one per 2,078 for Oldham and Shelby counties and one per 3,676 in northeastern Jefferson County.

Reynolds noted that, while only priests can conduct Masses, large suburban parishes often have deacons and lay leaders who handle other ministries that priests deal with in smaller parishes.

The archdiocese once sought to provide churches within walking distance of every largely Catholic neighborhood. But in these more mobile times, Reynolds said, "one out of two Catholics bypass the church closest to their house" to attend Mass somewhere else.

And even if Catholics are moving east, he added, many commute to urban Louisville churches with unique niches, from the Latin liturgies at St. Martin of Tours to the social-justice emphasis of St. William.

"Nobody (at St. William) lives in that area of 13th and Oak," where the church is located, agreed the Rev. John Burke, sacramental moderator at St. William. "They're all coming from other points in town. It's still a vibrant parish."

Burke, who also pastors two West End churches, said parishes there are "actively exploring ways that we can work together better."
gych no está en línea  
Old November 25th, 2005, 12:55 PM   #132
lou-villian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 203
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilson758
You know, you people are a trip. I only referenced shopping and hands down, it is better here than in Louisville. Hell, it is better here than in Cincy. Gych, we also have Von Maur, 2 to be exact along with out Nordies, Sakes, Parisians, blah blah blah.

AND MY POINT, that so many missed, was that you CAN'T expect an out of state city to have more influence that the effing state capitol. Kid yourself into believing that! Read Lexy's post! I think that since he is from there, I would tend to agree with him. Also, plenty of boutiques in the Indy area as well...remember Carmel and Zionsville?

Lou-villin...:"So you mean to tell me that INdianapolis has more influence over the S.Indiana counties in Louisville metro."

PLEASE TELL ME WHERE IN THE **** I SAID THIS????????? I never once mentioned anything about Indiana countires in the Louisville metro...NEVER!


Gych, you are the know it all. Keep believing you own hype, one day it might come true. Until then, I will continuee to watch indy prosper and run circles around...well, you know!
C-wilson my goodness you need to chill out.....Why are you so extra sensitive? You are responding like somebody bashed you. People are justing giving there opinion and you are cursing and using "you people". Who said Lexy was wrong? Nobody is even remotely saying Lexy is wrong. Lexy lives in that region, Lexy can speak for the people from that region. I was just telling Lexy that I was aware of the surroundings in E-ville but actually forgot that E-ville shares the same market with Owensboro. Anyways, why does it have to be YOU PEOPLE. If I mis-quoted, man my bad, I was only responding to what I thought I read. No big deal right? I'm dropping nothing but my personal opinion, It sounded like you was a little up in arms, its not even that serious. I still don't know where shopping even gets crediblity when we are talking about "influence". Too bad cardpooch even linked that interesting map for us to look at, because now as usual the ultra-sensitivity is being displayed, damn I've never been on a board where if you disagree with somebody there are "sibliminally" calling you a idiot. Again another INdy vs Louisville thing, I never said Louisville had better shopping so I don't even know why the comparison is even being kicked out there.LOL Hey if Louisville has no influence on the indiana counties in this metro then maybe I need to open my eyes and ears more. I do live here but I guess I don't know much about it. LOL damn I just get a kick out of being called out, but if I took you out of context man I'm sorry I don't want you to bust a vein over nothing. Again I apologize and I appreciate the response to my initial post. Hope everyone had a good thanksgiving, I certainly ate well.

Last edited by lou-villian; November 25th, 2005 at 01:03 PM.
lou-villian no está en línea  
Old November 25th, 2005, 01:11 PM   #133
lou-villian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 203
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by louisville playa
Southern Indiana (the counties around Louisville at least) rely on Louisville for retail and upscale eateries and what not, But this coming form a native just about every Louisville native (commoner) does not think of Southern Indiana as a part of Louisville.
Most People in Southern Indiana (except for the 3 Northern counties imediately outside of Louisville) in places like Scottsburg I'd imagine that they'd lean a bit more towards Indianapolis just because it's in their state, it has SOMEWHAT more an upscale shopping selection, and well it's the Capitol.
Louisville's sphere in influence is more around the 3 surounding counties in Southern Indiana, E-town, Bullet, Nelson, Shellby and Oldham County areas and extend towards Franfort and Lexington.
Now I think that Evansville and Owensboro would have a SOMEWHAT large influenced area since there is a lack of large cities in that area, But I don't think it's that much bigger than Louisville's.
I be damn isn't that what I said, and I got ripped by C-wilson. I said outside of Jeff(Clark Co), New Albany(floyd co), Charlestown(clark co), Sellersburg(Clark co) Corydon(harrison co) all depend on Louisville. Now that is 3 counties out of umpteen million in the state of Indiana. I said anything north of scottsburg is all Indy.....Damnit I said that.lol I guess folks can't read between the lines now days. Goodness, man I swear I sound like a broken record on this issue. I just said this city "louisville" has cultural and economic influence on "those" "three" "counties". Thats all I simply said, but if you disagree with somebody you get crucified. I didn't say all "of" Southern Indiana just those around Louisville.
lou-villian no está en línea  
Old November 25th, 2005, 01:28 PM   #134
lou-villian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 203
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulbrotha
i didn't know a city could have a suburb in another state. But what do i know. I don't view Southern Indiana as a part of Louisville. But thats just me.
I respect that, but quite a few folks do, its hard to tell someone who grew up in louisville and lived there their whole life that they are not from Louisville because they chose to move across the bridge. I be damn if someone tells me i'm not a louisvillian because I live in Indiana now, I've only been over here for 8 months now. I chose to live here because its cheaper obvioulsy. Anyways arguments can be made, Just like Kansas City KS, is obviously apart of Kansas City, MO. East St.Louis ILL, obviously apart of St.Louis MO. I was just pointing out that alot of people that live over here used to live in the ville. Most people like myself who come from louisville consider it living in a suburb just like oldham or bullitt. It is what it is, you can call it what you like.
lou-villian no está en línea  
Old November 25th, 2005, 01:29 PM   #135
lou-villian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 203
Likes (Received): 0

I"m sure this will make you happy Gych if this actually came about.

Plan would erase I-64 from downtown
Bridges proposal faces uphill battle

By Chris Poynter
[email protected]
The Courier-Journal


Tyler Allen was visiting the Waterfront Park office two years ago when he noticed, tacked to a wall, a large aerial map with a maze of lines -- an early proposal for redesigning Spaghetti Junction.

On it he saw 26 lanes of traffic converging into downtown, including several elevated roads over Waterfront Park.



"It really shocked me," Allen said.

Since then, he has made it his crusade to launch a different vision for the Ohio River Bridges Project -- one that removes Interstate 64 downtown and routes it over a new East End bridge connecting eastern Jefferson County, Ky., with Utica, Ind.

There would be no need for a new downtown bridge, Allen argues, or rebuilding Spaghetti Junction.

And it would be a lot cheaper, he says.

The Ohio River Bridges Project carries a projected cost of $2.46 billion by the time it is finished in 2020.

But building the eastern bridge and the roads leading to it -- the only portion Allen says is needed under his plan -- would cost $857 million.

It's a radical alternative to curing Louisville's rising traffic problems by building new downtown and East End bridges and rebuilding Spaghetti Junction, where interstates 64, 65 and 71 meet.

Reaction is divided
Allen has shared his vision with hundreds of people the past six months, including civic and political leaders. Some of them say the idea has merit, especially since other cities -- Milwaukee, Portland, San Francisco -- have removed highways and interstates from their downtowns.

But others working with the bridges project say that, although Allen's plan looks great on paper, it won't work.

They say that the bridges project environmental study briefly looked at removing I-64 but found that it would create traffic gridlock downtown.

Most drivers on the Louisville portion of I-64 are local, the study found, so they will still drive into downtown Louisville, interstate or not.

That's why U.S. Rep. Anne Northup, R-3rd District, calls Allen's plan "unworkable," even though she says she's impressed by his presentation.

Louisville Mayor Jerry Abramson said he applauds Allen's "idealism," but he said the proposal is "more art than science."

And Kristen Jordan, a spokeswoman for the bridges project, said Allen's plan may not save money because other roads might have to be widened to accommodate his proposed traffic patterns.

Others dismissed Allen's proposal outright, saying that the bridges project is too far along to change course.

Tonya Fischer, of the Southern Indiana Chamber of Commerce, said she wished Allen had presented his idea five or six years ago, when the bridges environmental study and preliminary engineering were under way.

"Although it's a great plan that makes perfect sense, we cannot endorse anything that jeopardizes the process going now," Fischer said.

Even River Fields, the Louisville land and river conservation group, is skeptical, saying Allen's concept raises more questions than it answers. The group says more would be gained by building a downtown bridge and jettisoning the East End bridge.

"The $22 million bridges environmental impact statement clearly says the only way to address our current traffic and safety needs is to rebuild Spaghetti Junction and build another bridge downtown," said Leslie Barras, associate director of River Fields. "So let's take what little transportation money we have and devote our time, attention and public finances on making that happen as soon as possible."

But Bill Gulick, the retired former manager of the bridges project for the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet, called Allen's vision "intriguing." And he said River Fields' opposition is curious.

"If River Fields' mission is the care and preservation of the Ohio River, how in the hell could they argue with restoring the waterfront downtown?" he asked.

Creating a buzz
Allen is pressing ahead with his proposal.

Next Friday, during the First Friday trolley hop downtown, Allen's images of a green Ohio riverfront will be displayed at Swanson Reed Contemporary Art gallery, 638 E. Market St.

"If a picture is worth a thousand words, Allen's images might be worth 10,000 words," said gallery owner Chuck Swanson, who wants the public to know there are alternatives to building more roads. "Maybe people will start talking about it."

On Dec. 7, Allen will present his plan to the Waterfront Development Board, which oversees Waterfront Park.

Waterfront President David Karem said Allen's vision is creating a buzz, although he stressed that his board hasn't decided whether to endorse it.

"It seems to be picking up some momentum," Karem said.

Allen's proposal comes as others are questioning the wisdom of the $2.46 billion bridges project.

Louisville resident Alan Brake, writing in October's edition of the national magazine "Architecture," called the bridges plan regressive.

"Not only will this 'improved' highway interchange prove destructive for Louisville, it will be expensive for all of us," he wrote.

Proponent keeps selling
Allen isn't the first person to suggest moving I-64.

Doug Cobb, the former head of the Greater Louisville Chamber of Commerce and now president of Appriss, a local technology company, suggested the same thing during the bridges project's environmental study.

But Gulick said moving I-64 was never seriously considered.

"Was it pursued during the environmental study? Yes. Was it thoroughly pursued? No," Gulick said.

Still, Gulick acknowledges that there "would have to be pretty significant public outcry" to prompt another study that would be needed to look at Allen's plan. And he said that could delay the project.

Jim Adams, deputy secretary for the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet, doesn't believe that Allen's plan would solve Louisville's traffic problems.

"I have my doubts that it can meet current traffic demands, let alone traffic demands 20 to 25 years from now," he said.

But Allen, owner and president of USA Image Technologies, best known for printing those giant murals of famous Louisvillians -- Muhammad Ali, Diane Sawyer, Pat Day -- remains undeterred.

He admits that he's no traffic engineer or urban planner -- but Allen thinks Louisville should have a serious discussion of whether building more interstate lanes downtown is the best vision for the future.

Removing I-64 would allow Louisville to completely reclaim its waterfront, Allen said, extending Waterfront Park west to 16th Street.

Under his plan, I-64 from the Snyder Freeway into downtown would become a parkway, carrying local traffic. And I-64 from the west into downtown would end around 22nd Street. River Road would then extend into Western Louisville.

Spaghetti Junction then would carry only I-71 and I-65 traffic, reducing the 250,000 to 300,000 vehicles that travel daily through the tangled knots of asphalt.

Allen carries 5-foot-tall maps and images over his shoulder and gladly stops friends, strangers -- anybody who will listen -- to give them his spiel. He's so eager about his vision that he speaks faster than many people can understand, often sitting on his maps, even lying over them, as he explains his plan.

David Jones, the co-founder of Humana, said Allen's plan deserves study, even if it slows the bridges project.

"Having interstates 64, 65 and 71 meeting in the downtown of major metropolitan area was a really bad idea," said Jones, who helped create Waterfront Park. "If there's any chance of correcting that, we ought to make every effort to do it."
lou-villian no está en línea  
Old November 25th, 2005, 07:18 PM   #136
springs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 19
Likes (Received): 0

I'm sorry but I have got to disagree in this article. Living in Lexington, I drive down Nicholasville Rd. everyday. It takes a half hour sometimes to go a couple of miles to downtown from Man O War. That's pretty ridiculous. Now Louisville is a lot bigger city and to get from the Snyder to downtown on a "parkway, carrying local traffic", while hitting 37 stop lights would be a horror. Now I am a proponent of light rail and mass transit because I've used it and enjoyed in Chicago, St. Louis, and DC, but come on we live in Kentucky. Do you seriously think it will ever happen? Plus, light rail would never work on the east side to replace I-64 because their are too many rich people who like to drive their Lexus SUVs by themselves and clogging up traffic. Sorry about the rant and have a good end to your thanksgiving weekend.
springs no está en línea  
Old November 25th, 2005, 10:45 PM   #137
Soulbrotha
abdulsharifshoots.com
 
Soulbrotha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: WEST Louisville
Posts: 1,700
Likes (Received): 41

Quote:
Originally Posted by lou-villian
I respect that, but quite a few folks do, its hard to tell someone who grew up in louisville and lived there their whole life that they are not from Louisville because they chose to move across the bridge. I be damn if someone tells me i'm not a louisvillian because I live in Indiana now, I've only been over here for 8 months now. I chose to live here because its cheaper obvioulsy. Anyways arguments can be made, Just like Kansas City KS, is obviously apart of Kansas City, MO. East St.Louis ILL, obviously apart of St.Louis MO. I was just pointing out that alot of people that live over here used to live in the ville. Most people like myself who come from louisville consider it living in a suburb just like oldham or bullitt. It is what it is, you can call it what you like.

who said you weren't from louisville if you move to indiana? I'm just saying you're not still living in Louisville if you move to southern indiana.
Soulbrotha no está en línea  
Old November 25th, 2005, 10:46 PM   #138
Soulbrotha
abdulsharifshoots.com
 
Soulbrotha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: WEST Louisville
Posts: 1,700
Likes (Received): 41

Quote:
Originally Posted by gych
^Come on Soul, you know better than THAT!!!!! For starters, lets try our 4 nearby cities namely Cincy, STL, Memphis, and KC, all of which have burbs in other states less than 5 minutes from downtown. Of course NYC is the best example. Sure many common people do not know this, but hopefully you are enlightened enough to know???

"

i'm not to sure people from Indiana would be too happy of you calling their cities suburbs lol.
Soulbrotha no está en línea  
Old November 26th, 2005, 12:07 AM   #139
gych
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 795
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by springs
I'm sorry but I have got to disagree in this article. Living in Lexington, I drive down Nicholasville Rd. everyday. It takes a half hour sometimes to go a couple of miles to downtown from Man O War. That's pretty ridiculous. Now Louisville is a lot bigger city and to get from the Snyder to downtown on a "parkway, carrying local traffic", while hitting 37 stop lights would be a horror. Now I am a proponent of light rail and mass transit because I've used it and enjoyed in Chicago, St. Louis, and DC, but come on we live in Kentucky. Do you seriously think it will ever happen? Plus, light rail would never work on the east side to replace I-64 because their are too many rich people who like to drive their Lexus SUVs by themselves and clogging up traffic. Sorry about the rant and have a good end to your thanksgiving weekend.

Dude, I dont think you understand. "64" will be the same shitty, 4 lane expressway it is today....there wont be any stoplights, the speed limit will be the same, and even the exits will be the same until u get downtown!!! It wil just have a new name (perhaps 364 or even better, Waterfront Parkway) And I dont care what they say, theres lots of through traffic on there...if you remove that, traffic wouldnt be so bad. 64/265 would be a dual signed route, and it would be widened from 4 to six lanes (and 10 lanes at major junctions), which 265 needs REGARDLESS of whether 64 joins it, so it kills two birds with one stone. Mileage wise, youd only travel 4 miles more to get through Louisville on the 64/265 heading from STL to Lexington.

Now the ONLY question/problem with this is how do you empty that "parkway" (the old 64/364/Waterfront Parkway with its downtown end chopped off) traffic into downtown efficiently. Well, I think if you add a few more exit ramps and make river road like a mini Lakeshore Dr, it would definitely work. All this is hell of cheaper than building two bridges and killing the chance of ever getting light rail when this town grows up and also realizes that we spend MORE HOURS IN TRAFFIC THAN ******* PHILADELPHIA, and its only 2005!!!! I love this city and the creative class and people like Tyler Allen are brilliant. But man ignorance I see out of the Mayor and others including Louisville Playa makes me think about leaving...
gych no está en línea  
Old November 26th, 2005, 12:32 AM   #140
Soulbrotha
abdulsharifshoots.com
 
Soulbrotha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: WEST Louisville
Posts: 1,700
Likes (Received): 41

Quote:
Originally Posted by gych
I love this city and the creative class and people like Tyler Allen are brilliant. But man ignorance I see out of the Mayor and others including Louisville Playa makes me think about leaving...


whoa, and i thaught everyone was ignorant except you.

and the fact that you put the Mayor of Louisville and someone on a message board named Louisville Playa, who you don't even know in real life, into the same category is hilarious.
Soulbrotha no está en línea  


 

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium