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Old December 31st, 2006, 10:30 PM   #61
NaptownBoy
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Actually I agree. The one thing I could see Indy being able to pull off as a landmark would be some type of a supertall, like 1000-1200 feet.
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Old December 31st, 2006, 11:29 PM   #62
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It has a lot to do with funding right now. We just built a billion dollar stadium and convention center while most of our downtown sewers are civil war era, (including mine) our public transportation is amongst the most inadequate in the world, we desperately need to build a new City County Building, which will be at least a $150 million expense in the next couple/few years, IPS is... well... I could go on and on and on. As much as I love architecure, I would have to oppose using public funds for a project like that in the near future.

Besides, observation towers really should be built in areas where there are things to observe... like mountains, oceans etc.. A handful of tall buildings of lackluster design just isn't sufficient. I just don't think a space needle would be a good match for Indy right now. It'd kind of be like on "The Larry Sanders Show" when Hank opened his rotating floor restaurant on ground level without windows.. There is the danger that building a huge observation tower, or a massive monument will actually be something that is mocked on a national or international level... A structure like that says "we've arrived"... Well, Indy hasn't "arrived" yet. Not when we don't even have light rail or a bus system that works, or a truly 24 hour downtown. etc. etc.

If we're going to put public funds into something tall, we should help fund a supertall mixed use building with an observation level. In the meantime, we should concentrate on building a truly urbane and prosperous 24 hour downtown with public funds. If we do that, the beautiful tall buildings will come whether we like it or not.

I am interested in what the new city county building will look like,
either way, I think that the LOS will pay off, and I think that they should invest in the lightrail, and maybe renting office space from sourounding buildings for the city county offices to make due untill the funds are avaliable,
that would help alot.
Public funds would help alot! Not another glass highrise, maybe a highrise with stucco facade, and an interesting mansard roof, that would look amazing, and it would help bring another building boom of more classical structures.
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Old January 1st, 2007, 01:36 AM   #63
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It looks like they went to Kings Island, ripped off one of the rollercoasters, and smacked it down on a part of Indianapolis that isnt even in the downtown core.
I think that something that was more unique, more...Indianapolis like, something speedy looking, since we are the racing capitol of the known world.
I'd rather not have something "speedy looking"... We have more to offer than one event in may where the white trash invade.

I dont mind the design because it is unique at night, as the towers would have been. It is better than some of the other ideas submitted.
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Old January 1st, 2007, 01:40 AM   #64
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I believe that when the central library opens again, the building it is using now we be used for what it was built for - courtroom space and probably offices.

and i agree with moochie... i dont think we need this circle in the first place. money is much better invested in education of all things.
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Old January 1st, 2007, 07:54 PM   #65
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I'd rather not have something "speedy looking"... We have more to offer than one event in may where the white trash invade.

I dont mind the design because it is unique at night, as the towers would have been. It is better than some of the other ideas submitted.
if you put it that way then I agree,
racing is considerd a whitetrash stereotype lol,
perhapes something more monumental? Like an arch in a classic style?
But I think this money could be focused into the restoration of more structures, and repairs of sidewalks and streets. Lets spend the money to build the city up, not waste it on a gaint thingy that looks like a rollercoaster.
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Old January 1st, 2007, 08:04 PM   #66
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Gateways

Indiana Tower was supposed to be one of those defing gateway landmarks that was proposed more than 20 years ago. I know that it has been mentioned in the past in this thread. Here's an example of a landmark that would have created a distinctive icon for the city. This was planned years before the trend of gateways was even discussed in planning. Gateways are good for cities for a variety of ways, but proposing a loop in the form of a triangular truss just does'nt cut it. It is true that offering local designers to participate is beneficial, but I agree that the inspiration is often lacking. Someone at the White River Park Development Corp back in the early 80's had the foresight to hire a world renowned architect: Cesar Pelli. I was never a big fan of the tower to begin with, but the approach and insight was good. The city missed it's golden opportunity to have another landmark building that could have served as much more than just a functional hotel. It would have been a new landamark and created so much more. The gateway project is a good one...http://www.bsu.edu/capic/gateways/

and I know that gateways are distinctly different from corporate towers, so back to my point. Make it grand. Make it significant or meaningful, or don't do it. Use the funds for something more productive in the arts. It's obvious that the Indiana Tower was nixed because of costs, and since the city has allocated so much funding for LOS, there's little left for these types of projects like except for private funding. Private donations may find it more appropriate to donate to such projects as the Cultural Trail. If the first gateway can evolve into something more interesting than an LED lit rollercoaster, it may get more attention. I think it's in the wrong place, does not allow people to participate with it (changing colors with the click of a mouse is cute, but that does not engage the participant in the real world) and simply is not a progressive enough or identifiable symbol for the city.
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Old January 1st, 2007, 08:16 PM   #67
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OMFG,
that would have been amazing! Its so beautiful!
Well, hopefully this new monument can be altered into something of a more tasteful architecturual style.
The three story aluminum covered structure that burned out on Washington street, does anyone know if the structure can be saved? If not, its fine, its not historical, but I have quite a bit of concern for the ornate brick structure connected west of it, that structure has architectual beauty, and if we need parking so bad, the city council should start investing in underground parking so arsons don't go around burning everything down, but for all we know, this could be an acciedent. but I agree with Moochie, this is suspeciouse.
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Old January 1st, 2007, 08:23 PM   #68
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^ thats really incredible..def. iconic..
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Old January 1st, 2007, 08:25 PM   #69
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runaway *****, though your siggy is frank, its funny.
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Old January 1st, 2007, 08:41 PM   #70
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Oh, about the Indiana Tower

According to the Architect Firm of Cesar Pelli:

"Conceived as both an archetypal monument - like an obelisk, watchtower, or campanile - and a tower to be climbed, the Indiana Tower incorporates physical activity and architectural experience. It is a 750-foot octagonal shaft measuring 130 feet at its base and 64 feet across its top, made of reinforced concrete and limestone cladding. The tower form is a single spiral ramp with a gentle slop of one in fourteen. The ramp's length is one and three-quarters miles, culminating in a glazed observation room at the top, also accessible by elevator. A large observation platform at 150 feet is easily accessible from the ground by foot or by elevator. At the base of the tower is the Indiana Pavilion, a state history museum with permanent and changing exhibitions. The museum is meant to involve visitors with Indiana's past, while the tower - with its limestone blocks recording yearly events lining the spiral ramp - is a symbol of the future."

Obviously the future has happened without this thing, and the park has evolved into something more than what was first proposed way back in the early the 80's. It is one of the best urban / state parks that I have ever visited and is unique for a city. Perhaps Kevin K. Parsons & Associates and Greg Hull could look back at Pelli's tower for some inspiration. And if not an observation tower, look at some great works by Renzo Piano, Sir Norman Foster, Richard Rogers Partnership, Jean Nouvel, Nicholas Grimshaw and many other world class architects and designers who have created similar tensile and truss structures that are far more interesting than the proposed truss donut. Yes, budget often dictates everything, but something with a more symbolic form than a hole in the middle could inspire more. I think we all get the fact that the city is a circle city by now. What else could indy be in graphic or architectural form? It's a difficult challenge, especially on a 10 mil. dollar budget, but be more progressive Mr. Hull and look deeper into the symbolism of the circle, or move away from it entirely.
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Old January 1st, 2007, 08:49 PM   #71
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I see this gateway project is being brought to us by Ball State University, the same one who's architecture school dean said of the new Whiteco JW Marriott Hotel, "It doesn't have to be good architecture, it just has to be distinctive". Quite frankly, that's Coddington guy's statements make me question everything Ball State has been involved with, from this gateway to the forthcoming Fountain Square streetscape project. My first take on the circle truss is that it follows Coddington exactly: it's distinctive, but not good.

That Indiana Tower was awesome.
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Old January 1st, 2007, 08:50 PM   #72
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it was, I really wish it was constructed,
it would have drawn so many tourists, and would have symbolized, that Indy is here now, and will always be here.
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Old January 1st, 2007, 08:54 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unionstation13 View Post
....Lets spend the money to build the city up, not waste it on a gaint thingy that looks like a rollercoaster.
The Gateways Initiative is a project of Rotary International. There is no City funding for Gateway projects. All funding will come from private doantions.
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Old January 1st, 2007, 09:02 PM   #74
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Oh, well if its a private funding then they can do whatever, as long as it does not effect the historical character of Indianapolis in a bad way.
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Old January 1st, 2007, 09:14 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arenn View Post
I see this gateway project is being brought to us by Ball State University...

That Indiana Tower was awesome.
Ball State just maintains the website, which used to be maintained by the City.

I agree about Indiana Tower. Not everything needs to have some deep symbolic meaning - or not so deep, like a "circle". A large landmark deserves an international competition with proposals submitted by Foster, Pelli, Piano, Gehry, etc. The Central Library should have employed an international competition. I believe it is the only new, major public library that did have an international competition. I'm just not seeing leadership when it comes to visioning.
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Old January 1st, 2007, 09:18 PM   #76
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Yah, the Soldiers and sailors monument was chosen through a contest, I am curiouse as to what the other contest entries were for the monument.
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Old January 1st, 2007, 09:22 PM   #77
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Gateway rethunk

Thanks for clarifying that the Gateways Initiative is a project of Rotary International and that all funding will come from private doantions.

When you look into the project further, you may discover, as I did some interesting things about it. I do not think it's fair to judge a small arial digital composition from the IBJ and post a definitive opinion. On second thought, the design is definitely interesting, just not distinctive enough - agreed.

And on Coddingtons quote: "It doesn't have to be good architecture, it just has to be distinctive" What the heck does that mean - that mediocrity and banality is good? Sign me up for his class. I think the opposite. But anway, take a closer look at the Gateway proposal. If this thing does move forward, I just hope that they push it further. It just could be so much more. It does seem to be the best of the proposals, especially considering that one is a complete ripp off of artist Paul Tzanetopoulos LAX Int. Airport Light pylons from 2000.
Here's a closer look at the proposal:
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Old January 1st, 2007, 09:24 PM   #78
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it does look interesting from those pictures,
this monument does not include the demolition of any structures built from the 1930's and before correct?
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Old January 1st, 2007, 09:44 PM   #79
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It's fairly accurate map.

Come to think of it, I have never seen a true neighborhood map of Indy before...
http://imaps.indygov.org/regorgs/ is a City mapping application that displays neighborhood boundaries based on input from the neighborhoods. This may be helpful in verifying boundaries (assuming that the neighborhood submitted the correct boundaries).

It's not possible to come up with a unique neighborhood map of Indy. Some neighborhoods, like Meridian Kessler are umbrella organizations. Their defined boundary includes the Forest Hills neighborhood. And some would also argue Johnson's Wood is it's own neighborhood within MK. Most suburban areas of the county have never had defined boundaries. If you look on historic maps, you can see old unincorporated towns, like Augusta, New Augusta, Snacks, New Bethel, Poplar Grove, Glenns Valley, Allisonville, Nora, etc. Even these old towns didn't have defined boundaries.

The City will be launching a new neighborhood mapping application early this year which will "try" to define unique neighborhood areas.
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Old January 1st, 2007, 09:50 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unionstation13 View Post
it does look interesting from those pictures,
this monument does not include the demolition of any structures built from the 1930's and before correct?

No significant structure, if any at all, will be demolished.
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