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Newcastle Metro Area For Newcastle, N Tyneside, Gateshead, S Tyneside, South Northumberland



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Old January 18th, 2007, 01:02 PM   #21
Val Verde
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The Metro is a great piece of transport infrastructure for Tyne & Wear. As for a couple of things ive wondered is regarding the new rolling stock couldn't they use adapted versions of the new London Underground S-Stock that can run 1500 Volts DC overhead or would such stock be too large if so couldnt they order some tube stock?



Also with regards to a possible extension into the West of Newcastle couldn't they run along the A186 corridor in a cut and cover tunnel serving developments along that corridor to a park and ride site near to the A69/A1 junction or perhaps even extending further to create a second Metro route to Newcastle Airport. Also they could perhaps construct a route alongside the ECML between Chester Le Street and Newcastle and to possibly branch with Washington towards the existing line from South Hyton - Sunderland? Although unlikely in the current environment of not spending anything on transport surely there must be some plans somewhere for new routes for the Tyne & Wear Metro and to expand on what is already a successful transport network.
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Old January 18th, 2007, 05:14 PM   #22
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There is a pdf about some of this on the nexus site i think. I stumbled accross it the other day and it was quite interesting reading.
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Old January 19th, 2007, 11:29 PM   #23
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This is such a wicked system. II'd love to see some extensions or even a brand new deep level tube line interconnecting with the city centre sections - but i don't know much about Newcastle or the North East to know where you'd put them or if they're viable.

Either way, this was acclaimed when it was built and should without doubt be given a good injection of cash by the government (and hopefully return running buses alongside - instead of - against the system).
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Old January 21st, 2007, 11:56 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarflonlad View Post
This is such a wicked system. II'd love to see some extensions or even a brand new deep level tube line interconnecting with the city centre sections - but i don't know much about Newcastle or the North East to know where you'd put them or if they're viable.

Either way, this was acclaimed when it was built and should without doubt be given a good injection of cash by the government (and hopefully return running buses alongside - instead of - against the system).
Agreed, it really is an excellent system and it seems such a shame to see how hard it needs to fight for its continued existence and improvement. I think it is exactly the sort of thing we should be looking to replicate elsewhere. Mersyrail has some similar qualities toom tho metro has the edge. One thing they really should do is finally get the metro to the metro centre!
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Old January 21st, 2007, 01:35 PM   #25
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Yeah, I always thought that rather strange that the metro doesn't go to the metro centre! lol As much as I'd like to see new underground lines built (for example I'd like to see the stump that goes to St James continued with one more underground station serving the Science City development on the old brewery site and then it continuing overground as a street running tram along Westgte Road which then loops around the whole of the west end, crosses the river and comes back to Gateshead station via the metro centre) but unfortunately we all know that with the current government, anything as comprehensive as that is simply dead in the water, it just isn't going to happen. I think Nexus will have a hard time getting these very stripped down proposals approved.
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Old January 21st, 2007, 03:42 PM   #26
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same everywhere andrew at the moment. they just dont seem to be putting two and two together all this shit about saving the environment and lowering carbon emissions but they wont give people the transport services to get out their cars, as well as putting prices up!
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Old January 21st, 2007, 04:05 PM   #27
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same everywhere andrew at the moment. they just dont seem to be putting two and two together all this shit about saving the environment and lowering carbon emissions but they wont give people the transport services to get out their cars, as well as putting prices up!
Dare I say it but the tories look like they could be the better option in this regard. It may all just be spin at the moment but at least they're spinning the right stuff whereas the current lot have just lost the plot. There too busy trying to find every penny for the NHS to fulfill that promise, that they're failed to notice the emergence of other impending crises.
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Old January 21st, 2007, 04:22 PM   #28
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Yeah, I never thought anything would ever swing me towards the tories but if the spin they're coming out with at the moment actually turns into concrete policy commitments then I may actually give them some serious consideration.
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Old January 21st, 2007, 07:25 PM   #29
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Great thing about the Tyne & Wear Metro is that it is a relatively simple idea that came about through common sense thinking rather then spectacular out of the box ideas.

But it needs help to prosper and reliase it's full potential over the next 20+ years.

I would list the following as priority:

1) station modernisation

Already seems to be happening thankfully, ticket machines that can take notes, euros and debit/credit cards are a must.

2) Replacement of stock

I'm guessing that Trams are the most likely basis of the next orer of rolling stock. Not sure what to make of this as I still think three car metro's can be justified if the buses were regulated again.

I think the metro was initially designed for three car metro's (rather then the current two car formations we have now) but Government cut backs put paid to this.

3) regulated buses

Don't care if the operators kick up a fuss, ban buses from duplicating metro services and ensure they serve the main metro stations. The buses have to be clean, safe and comfortable (don't gasp) and be part of an all in one ticket price.

Regulated buses could then link the metro network to those places that can't justify a rail link.

4) network extensions

Four Lane Ends - Balliol - Killingworth - Cramlington

St James Park - District Centre - Denton - Walbottle - Newcastle Airport

Denton - Metro Centre - Dunston - Gateshead

Dunston - Bensham - Team Valley

Sunderland Park Lane - Barnes Park - Doxford Park - Tunstall - Ryhope

Gateshead - Queen Elizabeth Hospital - Wrekenton - Washington Town Centre - East Washington - Sunderland Pallion

East Boldon - Tyne Dock

Byker - Walker

St James Park to the West End and Gateshead to Washington and Sunderland being the most important imo.
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Old January 21st, 2007, 11:07 PM   #30
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Quote:
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Yeah, I always thought that rather strange that the metro doesn't go to the metro centre! lol As much as I'd like to see new underground lines built (for example I'd like to see the stump that goes to St James continued with one more underground station serving the Science City development on the old brewery site and then it continuing overground as a street running tram along Westgte Road which then loops around the whole of the west end, crosses the river and comes back to Gateshead station via the metro centre) but unfortunately we all know that with the current government, anything as comprehensive as that is simply dead in the water, it just isn't going to happen. I think Nexus will have a hard time getting these very stripped down proposals approved.
Newcastle used to have an extensive street tram system, not sure why it wasn't modernised and kept as it served a lot of the West End, an area that missed out on the Metro.

some pics here:

http://www.picturesofgateshead.co.uk...ms1/index.html

http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/tlt/tlt....start=1&num=12
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Old January 23rd, 2007, 12:05 AM   #31
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I think there also needs to be some kind of shuttle route between Palmersville or Four Lane Ends and Wallsend becuase it is a real pain having to travel via the Coast or City centre if you are just going to stations around those areas.
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Old January 23rd, 2007, 01:40 AM   #32
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Newcastle used to have an extensive street tram system, not sure why it wasn't modernised and kept as it served a lot of the West End, an area that missed out on the Metro.
Same reason that practically all of our tram systems were got rid of - "progress". They thought busses would be better, more efficient, that the tram's time had come... oh how wrong and shortsighted they were! I believe the trams were got rid of long before the Metro was built.
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Old January 25th, 2007, 11:19 PM   #33
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"Dunston - Bensham - Team Valley"

It used to make me so F*cking crss waiting for the bus home on the Team Valley whilst trains wizzed past not syopping because the station on STATION road wasn't there anymore.......
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Old January 26th, 2007, 12:57 AM   #34
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Same reason that practically all of our tram systems were got rid of - "progress". They thought busses would be better, more efficient, that the tram's time had come... oh how wrong and shortsighted they were! I believe the trams were got rid of long before the Metro was built.
I don't really see it being shortsighted. Wrong, yes. They weren't to know buses would attract such a social stigma and thus be so deprived of proper investment.

In 20-50 years time when/if a lot of proposed tram schemes are running; who's not to say that they won't themselves earn themselves a social stigma?

Trams running on the same alignment as cars/buses are really no improvement over buses IMO. Still all the same problems of generally a bumpy and uncomfortable ride, stuck behind traffic/broken down vehicles etc etc.
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Old January 28th, 2007, 03:35 AM   #35
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In 20-50 years time when/if a lot of proposed tram schemes are running; who's not to say that they won't themselves earn themselves a social stigma?
Because trams are proven, they've already been around for ages and they're way more successful at getting people out of their cars than busses. Unless some revolutionary new urban public transport system comes along I don't think trams will go out of fashion amongst users anytime soon.
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Old January 28th, 2007, 08:39 PM   #36
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Because trams are proven, they've already been around for ages and they're way more successful at getting people out of their cars than busses. Unless some revolutionary new urban public transport system comes along I don't think trams will go out of fashion amongst users anytime soon.
No tram system in this country is "proven". Sorry but most passengers have switched from buses. Most systems have gone below expectation in terms of passenger numbers and all but 2 systems have acceptable integration with other local transport.

Perhaps in terms of urban regeneration shiny new trams have played an important part - but to suggest this will go on is slightly ambitious don't you think?
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Old January 29th, 2007, 01:11 AM   #37
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How are trams 'proven'? AFIAK all but Nottingham's tram system have suffered poor passenger numbers. However, I do sympathise that these systems are very much in their infancy and all need dramatically expanded. For example; both the Manchester (and Nottingham) trams both completely miss their respective unis, which means probably at least a million journeys pa, possibly 5x that, are not being generated on the Manchester system alone and instead having to rely on buses.

Just because in the 1930s trams were loved by passengers doesn't mean they will suddenly be loved again.
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Old January 29th, 2007, 01:23 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarflonlad View Post
No tram system in this country is "proven". Sorry but most passengers have switched from buses. Most systems have gone below expectation in terms of passenger numbers and all but 2 systems have acceptable integration with other local transport.

Perhaps in terms of urban regeneration shiny new trams have played an important part - but to suggest this will go on is slightly ambitious don't you think?
I think you should check out the figures for the Nottingham system before spouting such shit.

As for cars, how many car drivers out side London would choose to catch a bus, compare this to the park and ride systems in Nottingham. Nottingham has proven that if a system is well planned with good park and rides from motorways, people will use them to get in to cities as it's seen as fast and convenient.

The ultimate proof for the success of trams is that where cities have them, there is clamour to extend them, such as in Manchester, Nottingham and Sheffield. Of course we will always get nimby ****ers like you but the vast majority of people with more than one brain cell will appreciate a clean efficent modern fixed form of transport.

Last edited by Zim Flyer; January 29th, 2007 at 01:36 AM.
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Old January 29th, 2007, 01:26 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by mrmojo View Post
How are trams 'proven'? AFIAK all but Nottingham's tram system have suffered poor passenger numbers. However, I do sympathise that these systems are very much in their infancy and all need dramatically expanded. For example; both the Manchester (and Nottingham) trams both completely miss their respective unis, which means probably at least a million journeys pa, possibly 5x that, are not being generated on the Manchester system alone and instead having to rely on buses.

Just because in the 1930s trams were loved by passengers doesn't mean they will suddenly be loved again.
Do you know how many people travel on the Manchester sytem, I would hardly say poor passanger numbers.

Trams have played a massive part in the regeneration of Manchester and will continue to do so with the big bang.
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Old January 29th, 2007, 10:03 PM   #40
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Quote:
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I think you should check out the figures for the Nottingham system before spouting such shit.

As for cars, how many car drivers out side London would choose to catch a bus, compare this to the park and ride systems in Nottingham. Nottingham has proven that if a system is well planned with good park and rides from motorways, people will use them to get in to cities as it's seen as fast and convenient.

The ultimate proof for the success of trams is that where cities have them, there is clamour to extend them, such as in Manchester, Nottingham and Sheffield. Of course we will always get nimby ****ers like you but the vast majority of people with more than one brain cell will appreciate a clean efficent modern fixed form of transport.

I know you absolutely love trams to death. You've make that quite clear on this site but that's no reason to get all protective and swear at me then suggest I'm a nimby when I'm pretty pro public transport of any form.

Fact is I said most (i.e. not all) systems have been below passenger numbers. Nottingham has done a fantastic job and you're welcome to look at my posts in the nottingham threads to concur my view here. Excluding Nottingham can you: 1. Name another system that exceeded (let alone met) passenger expectations? 2. Name a system that has created an impressive significant proportion of "new" commuters? No? Thus are trams "proven", no, not in the UK they're not unless you want to look only at regeneration. I would like to see more light rail systems built however - I come from the viewpoint that to subsidise and invest in transport creates and grows an urban centre i.e. costs outweigh overall benefits.
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