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Old March 10th, 2010, 03:38 AM   #101
johnnypd
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you know what, i think if sjp was completely removed and turned into a park, with a new stadium built to the north, it would, on balance, make for a better. more accessible public area. parkland both sides of leazes terrace, and abutting strawberry place (which would hopefully have buildings lining it) would drag the park into the city centre more and surround it with more urbanity. even though leazes is close to the city centre, due to the stadium it kind of feels a little cut off.
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Old March 10th, 2010, 09:47 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deebex View Post
I'd be intrigued to know where the potential site was in Byker. Any more info Chris?

It's not T Dan Smith's 'City Stadium' is it? (though I know that's nowhere near Byker as it's above the Ouseburn Culvert, so apologies if that's a silly question).

Coincidentally, where I live in Heaton is pretty close to one of the original football grounds of the two clubs that made up Newcastle United. Newcastle East End's ground was opposite the Chillingham Arms on Chilli Road i.e. the site that's now occupied by some horrible Persimmon Homes flats.
I thought it was a little bit further north than that, lying closer to the corner of Chillingham Rd. and what is now Rothbury Terrace? At least, the maps of the time denote a large cricket field at that site and I presume that's where NEE ended up playing. The Chillingham Garden Village site was being used for railway works at that time IIRC (not that I was there, of course).

Addendum: the map of the period 1894-99 (just after NEE left the area) shows a rectangular, distinctly football pitch shaped plot of land directly to the south of the cricket ground cited above. This (if it is the site in question) would place NEE's ground at what is now Marleen Court, and what was, for much of the C20, a cement factory.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 09:39 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigchrisfgb View Post
Acording to my step father who told me about the stadium in Byker, based on his description that he gave me, and google maps, I have came to the conclusion that the stadium would of been built on a brown field site next to Foos Way and Turnstall Avenue, though I maybe wrong.
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I remember a newspaper article that listed, with photos, all of these potential sites.

Now, all I have to do is find it!!

FOUND IT . . .


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Old March 15th, 2010, 01:30 PM   #104
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I always thought that the Newcastle East End ground was behind the shops at the junction of Newton Road and Cragside,High Heaton.Pretty sure there is still a football pitch on the site.
That'll be Heaton Stannington FC you're thinking of. I don't think that it ever had anything to do with East End - don't forget that there wasn't a lot round there in the 1880s...
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Old March 15th, 2010, 02:28 PM   #105
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Odd, I never knew Newcastle were planning to move once upon a time. Interesting. The St.James area looks so spacious...and Newcastle fans seem to make a huge deal about being the only team with its stadium in the city centre (which isn't true)
Wonder what would have happened at St.James if it had gone.

Centre for life- good they do go with that route. The life centre is pointless and I've no clue what it is but I like Digital.
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Old March 15th, 2010, 02:31 PM   #106
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.
BELOW, are some interesting recent discussions about the grounds that the original 'Newcastle Football Clubs' were at, prior to their formation of Newcastle United, and building up to their joint move of ground to ST JAMES' PARK.

The discussions (which I feel are relevant to be quoted on this thread) took place on the "Newcastle as it might have been" thread, following my article on the proposed 1997 move of the club from St James' Park to Castle Leazes Moor. I have linked that post in too, as that article is DEFINITELY relevant to a St James' Park thread.

See LINK to that article, below, followed by 'copies' of the discussion about the 'pre-United' club grounds . . .

Part 1 (1997 Proposals) - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=218
Part 1 (article continued, newspaper articles, etc) - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=272

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deebex View Post
I'd be intrigued to know where the potential site was in Byker. Coincidentally, where I live in Heaton is pretty close to one of the original football grounds of the two clubs that made up Newcastle United. Newcastle East End's ground was opposite the Chillingham Arms on Chilli Road i.e. the site that's now occupied by some horrible Persimmon Homes flats.
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Originally Posted by gregstone View Post
it was where Chillingham Garden Village is now, I think
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Originally Posted by gregstone View Post
sorry, crossed wires: this is was where Newcastle East End played before the "merger".
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj_gibson View Post
I thought it was a little bit further north than that, lying closer to the corner of Chillingham Rd. and what is now Rothbury Terrace? At least, the maps of the time denote a large cricket field at that site and I presume that's where NEE ended up playing. The Chillingham Garden Village site was being used for railway works at that time IIRC (not that I was there, of course).

Addendum: the map of the period 1894-99 (just after NEE left the area) shows a rectangular, distinctly football pitch shaped plot of land directly to the south of the cricket ground cited above. This (if it is the site in question) would place NEE's ground at what is now Marleen Court, and what was, for much of the C20, a cement factory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham56 View Post
I always thought that the Newcastle East End ground was behind the shops at the junction of Newton Road and Cragside,High Heaton.Pretty sure there is still a football pitch on the site.
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Originally Posted by North Star View Post
That'll be Heaton Stannington FC you're thinking of. I don't think that it ever had anything to do with East End - don't forget that there wasn't a lot round there in the 1880s...
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngerOfTheNorth View Post
I'm pretty sure Newcastle United originally came from the East End, but I'm not sure where exactly...

Last edited by Newcastle Historian; March 15th, 2010 at 05:47 PM.
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Old March 15th, 2010, 05:01 PM   #107
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I'm pretty sure Newcastle United originally came from the East End, but I'm not sure where exactly...
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Old March 15th, 2010, 05:32 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcastle Historian View Post
FOUND IT . . .



My search for the above led me to a very large collection of newspaper articles from 1996/1997 about . .

(1) The proposed move to Castle Leazes Moor, and
(2) The "fight to keep Newcastle United in Newcastle" (as it was portrayed) as some of the sites (not mentioned in the above article actually) were outside the City Boundary.

There was SUCH a lot of newspaper articles and headlines about all of these issues at the time, FAR TOO MANY for me to scan in as 'readable scans', so (to give just a little bit of the flavour of what was going on 14 years ago) I have photographed a few 'groups' of some of the newspaper articles . . .








The Evening Chronicle of Wednesday July 7th 1996, even gave us all a game of "Snakes and Ladders" to play!! . . .




They were 'interesting days' indeed!!
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Old March 15th, 2010, 06:34 PM   #109
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Fascinating post NH - thanks for sharing.

Have to say £65 Million sounds like a pretty canny price like, i know it was over 10 years ago BUT still thats cheap (relatively speaking)
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Old March 15th, 2010, 09:28 PM   #110
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I like the comment on the planning process on the snakes and ladders board - "Inquiry shown picture of Tony Blair playing head tennis with Kevin Keegan" straight onto "Planning Inquiry backs club"!

I also didn't realise that the relocation would have really improved the setting of Leazes Terrace. Though I must admit I'm still dubious about locating it on Leazes park/moor.
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Old March 16th, 2010, 12:28 AM   #111
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I think the location of Newcastle East End (correct name?) is indicated via this link:

http://gis.durham.gov.uk/website/min...704224&MINES=Y

Unfortunately the above link doesn't quite work, so you need to:

1 - set the map scale on the left to 5000

2 - select the historical map on the drop down list at the bottom to "circa 1894-1899"

As wj_gibson above has said there's a football pitch shaped polygon just south of the 'Cricket Ground'.

To compare and contrast, press the 'Compare Maps' button bottom right. However, you'll need to use the 'Zoom In' and Compass point scrolling to make sure the pitch is central on the map for this to work.

The "Tomorrow's History" and associated "Durham Miner" sites are great for accessing and comparing maps over the last 150 years. It's a pity that the maps are so awkward to use and to link to.

Last edited by Deebex; March 16th, 2010 at 12:42 AM.
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Old March 16th, 2010, 04:24 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deebex View Post
I also didn't realise that the relocation would have really improved the setting of Leazes Terrace. Though I must admit I'm still dubious about locating the stadium on Leazes park/moor.
Leazes Terrace certainly looks a LOT better in this sketch of the proposals, but whether it would have looked as good in reality, we will never know!

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Old March 16th, 2010, 04:39 AM   #113
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Interesting posts there NH, that last image looks pretty good for Leazers Park. It's amazing though how the stadium would only of cost £65m to build, your lucky to get one built for £300m these days and we are only 14 years down the line.
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Old March 19th, 2010, 01:01 AM   #114
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Newcastle United FC : New Stadium Plans.
No. 2 - The 1972 Proposals . . .


NB - Part 1, 1997, can be seen HERE : http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=218
and also HERE : http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=272


In 1972 we were presented with a detailed and comprehensive set of proposals to demolish the entire ground, and rebuild a 'uniform stand' (seats upstairs with standing in front) all the way around the ground.

Effectively, what was being proposed in 1972, was to build (what became the following year) the new East Stand all the way around St James Park, looking the same architecturally from outside as well as in, with some possible differences in the 'West Stand' area.

Here is the full set of "as it might have been" proposals, from 1972 . . .























Then, when we all assembled for the start of the 72/73 season on 12th August 1972, this was the front cover of our "new style" Match Programme . .



Inside the programme, the state of play with the development was explained . .



AS history shows, it was only the 'East Stand' of these proposals, that was ever built, and it didn't even cover the full length of the old Popular Side.

The rest of these proposals were quietly dropped, which was later said to be because of lack of money.


.
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Old March 19th, 2010, 02:15 AM   #115
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Great post NH .. really interesting read.

Incidentally, do you have the full program from the Wolves game in 1972? be interested to see the squad line up etc

I think Joe Harvey was the manager back then with Bobby Moncur, Viv Busby etc , possibly even Malcolm Macdonald in the squad.
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Old March 19th, 2010, 02:33 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by maxtoon View Post


Great post NH .. really interesting read.

Incidentally, do you have the full program from the Wolves game in 1972? be interested to see the squad line up etc

I think Joe Harvey was the manager back then with Bobby Moncur, Viv Busby etc , possibly even Malcolm Macdonald in the squad.

No sooner said than done!!


The back cover with the team lists on. Note that Terry Hibbitt was in our team, and his brother Kenny Hibbitt was in the Wolves team!

We won 2-1 and John Tudor got one of the goals, and I can't remember who got the other . .





The INSIDE back cover, as it was the first match of the season, had the 'Team Photo', for that season . .



Looking at this photo (first time for a long time!) is quite interesting for me, seeing "David Young" there, in the back row.

A couple of years later, he was to become my landlord, of a very damp rented flat in Holly Avenue, Jesmond, from 1975 to 1976 (the rent was £42.50 a month!!)
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Old March 19th, 2010, 04:11 AM   #117
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Thanks NH

What a squad .. and how can I forget goal machine John Tudor

btw, note the length of the grass on the team photo !

oh, and all for 7p
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Old March 19th, 2010, 11:29 AM   #118
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A couple of miscellaneous details (but interesting) that were revealed by the above report on the 1972 proposals . .

(1) How very close to the ground the new CMW (Central Motorway West) was going to be!

(2) That 1972 (Season 72/73) was to be the very first season that "adverts" were to appear in and around the ground and pitch.
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Old April 6th, 2010, 02:15 AM   #119
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Newcastle United FC : New Stadium Plans.
No. 3 - Various Proposals 1921 to 1997 . . .


This is the THIRD in the series on Newcastle United's "Newcastle as it might have been" proposals. The first two in the series covered (in detail) the 1997 proposals (Part One) and the 1972 Proposals (Part Two).

This third (and final) part, covers "all the other plans" that were proposed (but did NOT happen) starting in 1921 (29 years after Newcastle "United" first played at St James' Park) right up until 1997.

So, off we go . . .


1 - 1921.

Some reports state these plans come from '1929', but the majority state 1921. The first item (below) is a newspaper article from the Evening Chronicle of September 8th 1982, and actually (also) contains some details of some 'later' plans for the ground, from 1967. These plans are covered in detail later in this post . .






2 - 1964.

T Dan Smith and Newcastle City Council, were the instigators of this next set of proposals. His vision was of a "multi-sports complex', with Newcastle United Football Club at its centre. The club never really bought into this idea, and the below designs (though sometimes said to be the multi-sports' plans) were produced at the clubs behest in 1964, ignoring the councils 'multi-sports' ideas . .




3 - 1967.

Only a few years later in 1967, the 'multi-sports' idea again raised its head. A £2.6M scheme was devised that would have provided a football ground with a capacity of 63,000 spectators. The cost (though to be shared between the club, the City and the University) was seen by the club as too high, and amid disputes and talk of the club re-locating to Gosforth Park, the whole thing fell through . .






4 - 1972.

Full details of the "1972" proposals, were given in PART TWO of this series.

See the below post . .


POST 280 - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=280


5 - 1976.

The 1972 proposals (as shown on the above post 280) eventually came to nothing, apart from the construction of the 'East Stand' in 1973. In 1976 it was again proposed to 'extend the East Stand' around the corner into the (then) Leazes End. The old Leazes End roof and the back part of the standing area ('kop') were demolished to facilitate the below plans. Despite the demolition, none of the below extension was ever built . .




6 - 1989.

These are the first set of plans prepared by John Hall, as part of his plans to 'take over' the club. He produced three different options in 1989 . .






The next diagram (below) appears to be 'a slightly different version' of the cross-section in Option Three (as shown above) but now sporting the Magpie Group Logo (top centre) . .




7 - 1990.

In the face of John Halls re-development plans, the old Gordon McKeag led board (still very much in control of the club at that point) came up with their own SJP re-development proposals. Their plans (shown below) had an estimated cost of £16.5M and a planned capacity of 40,000 - yet they knew that they couldn't afford it! The planned 'Share Issue' had flopped, but they still published their plans . .




8 - 1991.

While John Hall (Magpie Group) and Gordon McKeag (the old Board) vied with eachother to produce re-development plans for the ground, the City Council suddenly got involved again, with some VERY expensive and dramatic proposals, costing in the region of £100M and eating into part of Leazes Park. City Architect, Trevor Skemptons design was in fact a 'giant amphitheatre', incorporating a shopping mall, office complex, car parking and a theatre.

A huge 'hydraulic' sliding screen would separate the football ground area from the theatre area at the Leazes End (projecting outwards into Leazes Park) producing a flexible football ground capacity of between 30,000 and 80,000 and 'indoor' concerts, stage plays and sports like 'boxing' would have an audience of as low as 20,000.

A spectacular and expensive (but perhaps impractical) addition to the list of proposed SJP developments . .






9 - 1996.

Designed by architect Michael Gilfillan, this proposal shows a design for a new ground for NUFC away from St James' Park, and (more importantly) on the 'Gateshead' side of the river. These plans are likely to have been part of the overall tactics by the club to get the City Council on their side for their imminent (1997) proposals to build a new stadium on Castle Leazes Moor . .




10 - 1997.

Full details of the "1997" proposals, were given in PART ONE of this series.

See the below two posts . .


POST 218 - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=218

POST 272 - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=272



So - There we have it . . . TEN different sets of Newcastle United Stadium Plans, that NEVER happened!

I wonder if the above is now the "definitive" collection of ALL of the 'abandoned proposals' for major revamps of SJP or moves to new grounds, that NUFC have ever made over the years?

It may well be . . . UNLESS you know different??


I hope you find the above ten proposals interesting. I have been waiting to publish this third post of dramatic plans and proposals for Newcastle United's ground (that did not happen) until I could do so as part of a CELEBRATION of our promotion back to the Premier League.

That is why I posted this on 5th April 2010 !!!


.
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Old April 7th, 2010, 12:21 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcastle Historian View Post
Newcastle United FC : New Stadium Plans.
No. 3 - Various Proposals 1921 to 1997 . . .


This is the THIRD in the series on Newcastle United's "Newcastle as it might have been" proposals. The first two in the series covered (in detail) the 1997 proposals (Part One) and the 1972 Proposals (Part Two).

This third (and final) part, covers "all the other plans" that were proposed (but did NOT happen) starting in 1921 (29 years after Newcastle "United" first played at St James' Park) right up until 1997.

So, off we go . . .


1 - 1921.

Some reports state these plans come from '1929', but the majority state 1921. The first item (below) is a newspaper article from the Evening Chronicle of September 8th 1982, and actually (also) contains some details of some 'later' plans for the ground, from 1967. These plans are covered in detail later in this post . .






2 - 1964.

T Dan Smith and Newcastle City Council, were the instigators of this next set of proposals. His vision was of a "multi-sports complex', with Newcastle United Football Club at its centre. The club never really bought into this idea, and the below designs (though sometimes said to be the multi-sports' plans) were produced at the clubs behest in 1964, ignoring the councils 'multi-sports' ideas . .




3 - 1967.

Only a few years later in 1967, the 'multi-sports' idea again raised its head. A £2.6M scheme was devised that would have provided a football ground with a capacity of 63,000 spectators. The cost (though to be shared between the club, the City and the University) was seen by the club as too high, and amid disputes and talk of the club re-locating to Gosforth Park, the whole thing fell through . .






4 - 1972.

Full details of the "1972" proposals, were given in PART TWO of this series.

See the below post . .


POST 280 - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=280


5 - 1976.

The 1972 proposals (as shown on the above post 280) eventually came to nothing, apart from the construction of the 'East Stand' in 1973. In 1976 it was again proposed to 'extend the East Stand' around the corner into the (then) Leazes End. The old Leazes End roof and the back part of the standing area ('kop') were demolished to facilitate the below plans. Despite the demolition, none of the below extension was ever built . .




6 - 1989.

These are the first set of plans prepared by John Hall, as part of his plans to 'take over' the club. He produced three different options in 1989 . .






The next diagram (below) appears to be 'a slightly different version' of the cross-section in Option Three (as shown above) but now sporting the Magpie Group Logo (top centre) . .




7 - 1990.

In the face of John Halls re-development plans, the old Gordon McKeag led board (still very much in control of the club at that point) came up with their own SJP re-development proposals. Their plans (shown below) had an estimated cost of £16.5M and a planned capacity of 40,000 - yet they knew that they couldn't afford it! The planned 'Share Issue' had flopped, but they still published their plans . .




8 - 1991.

While John Hall (Magpie Group) and Gordon McKeag (the old Board) vied with eachother to produce re-development plans for the ground, the City Council suddenly got involved again, with some VERY expensive and dramatic proposals, costing in the region of £100M and eating into part of Leazes Park. City Architect, Trevor Skemptons design was in fact a 'giant amphitheatre', incorporating a shopping mall, office complex, car parking and a theatre.

A huge 'hydraulic' sliding screen would separate the football ground area from the theatre area at the Leazes End (projecting outwards into Leazes Park) producing a flexible football ground capacity of between 30,000 and 80,000 and 'indoor' concerts, stage plays and sports like 'boxing' would have an audience of as low as 20,000.

A spectacular and expensive (but perhaps impractical) addition to the list of proposed SJP developments . .






9 - 1996.

Designed by architect Michael Gilfillan, this proposal shows a design for a new ground for NUFC away from St James' Park, and (more importantly) on the 'Gateshead' side of the river. These plans are likely to have been part of the overall tactics by the club to get the City Council on their side for their imminent (1997) proposals to build a new stadium on Castle Leazes Moor . .




10 - 1997.

Full details of the "1997" proposals, were given in PART ONE of this series.

See the below two posts . .


POST 218 - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=218

POST 272 - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=272



So - There we have it . . . TEN different sets of Newcastle United Stadium Plans, that NEVER happened!

I wonder if the above is now the "definitive" collection of ALL of the 'abandoned proposals' for major revamps of SJP or moves to new grounds, that NUFC have ever made over the years?

It may well be . . . UNLESS you know different??


I hope you find the above ten proposals interesting. I have been waiting to publish this third post of dramatic plans and proposals for Newcastle United's ground (that did not happen) until I could do so as part of a CELEBRATION of our promotion back to the Premier League.

That is why I posted this on 5th April 2010 !!!


.

I never knew there had been so many different plans for the ground.

Excellent work, thanks!
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