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Old October 22nd, 2009, 09:08 PM   #81
BigLebowski
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Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
zara moved because there was not enough storage.
NBS taking KFC unit.
American retailer moving into new eldon square development (probs americal apparel)
urban outfitters were going to go into Monument Mall, mall managers turned down opportunity.
jamie olivers restaurant chain were to go into old eldon square, but has been put on hold.
hood street will not get boss, ralph or d&g. we dont have footfall or retailer requirements.
tommi hilfiger, armani exchange, new era (caps), bose looking for space.
footlocker relocating off northumberland street, probs into eldon square opposite USC.
Now thats interesting because i had heard it was the other way round, with MM hawking their wares around and getting the mighty brush off from most, and a 'we'll call you back' from the rest...

That reason from Zara (lack of floorspace) was very much their party line, when it was more like a simple cost vs takings imbalance. If their reason were true, they wouldve opened up in Eldon Square immediately afterwards in what is now Monsoon or Blacks, both of which had leases available but they passed on the opportunity.

The Jamie Oliver restaurant is a new one on me, i know both Las Iguanas and Pizza Express in ES have stalled, though that doesnt mean it wont happen.
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Old October 22nd, 2009, 10:02 PM   #82
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American retailer moving into new eldon square development (probs americal apparel)
Could the American retailer possibly be Hollister we know that they are rapidly expanding their stores in the U.K.

http://www.hollisterco.com/
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Old October 22nd, 2009, 10:07 PM   #83
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That's all very well, but what about the alienation of the public realm? Do we want a city for everyone, a city for its citizens, or just for the potential consumers who are all that the new 'owners' of Liverpool One are interested in (and they get their private security guards to move out aanyone who doesn't fit their desired profile)?
It's an interesting debate - would you rather have "nice" well maintained public realm and attractive facilities without winos, scallies and beggars hassling you the whole time but some negative implications in terms of social inclusion and civil liberties, or one which is free for anyone to use but is vandalised to buggery and infested with swarms of smackheads and yobs?
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Old October 22nd, 2009, 10:55 PM   #84
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Could the American retailer possibly be Hollister we know that they are rapidly expanding their stores in the U.K.

http://www.hollisterco.com/
It could well be, apprently they are opening up in Milton Keynes, Bristol, Liverpool (Liverpool One), Belfast, Aberdeen, Cardiff, and 4-5 other stores, which the location of has not yet been disclosed.

Anyway, does anyone else notice that 4 of the locations I mentioned all got an Apple store around about the same as when we will get ours?

Not that them opening would effect many of us in anyway, since they aim at 14-18 year olds. Maybe them opening up inside a Gilly Hicks would be a better idea, who seem to aim at more of the young adult age group.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 12:00 AM   #85
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It's an interesting debate - would you rather have "nice" well maintained public realm and attractive facilities without winos, scallies and beggars hassling you the whole time but some negative implications in terms of social inclusion and civil liberties, or one which is free for anyone to use but is vandalised to buggery and infested with swarms of smackheads and yobs?
I don't want 'public' realm where only consumers or potential consumers are welcomed; I don't want to be 'policed' by private security guards hired by private companies who are not accountable to democratic scrutiny. I don't want 'nice' plasticised Stepford urban settings and especially not at the price of individual liberty. The alternative to Liverpool One is not one that is full of "winos, scallies and beggars hassling you the whole time ... vandalised to buggery and infested with swarms of smackheads and yobs"; it is a city - a polis - open to all and decently policed. It is a city where the lounger and the tramp can pass through as much as the shopper or business-person, where teenagers aren't segregated, marginalised and desocialised. A city is, or should be, the summation of modern civilisation, not a machine to enable the rich to treat the rest of us as milch cows and to exclude those who won't or can't play along.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 12:06 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by WilfBurnsFan View Post
I don't want 'public' realm where only consumers or potential consumers are welcomed; I don't want to be 'policed' by private security guards hired by private companies who are not accountable to democratic scrutiny. I don't want 'nice' plasticised Stepford urban settings and especially not at the price of individual liberty. The alternative to Liverpool One is not one that is full of "winos, scallies and beggars hassling you the whole time ... vandalised to buggery and infested with swarms of smackheads and yobs"; it is a city - a polis - open to all and decently policed. It is a city where the lounger and the tramp can pass through as much as the shopper or business-person, where teenagers aren't segregated, marginalised and desocialised. A city is, or should be, the summation of modern civilisation, not a machine to enable the rich to treat the rest of us as milch cows and to exclude those who won't or can't play along.
well said, mate. I actually feel privitised, inward focused spaces exacerbate social problems anyway as they push certain groups to the margins rather than mix everyone in together.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 01:42 AM   #87
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Post deleted... got a bit political!

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Old October 23rd, 2009, 01:45 AM   #88
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Ha ha! Thats rich coming from A. a Lib Dem (all about inclusion!) and B. Someone running for Newcastle East! Greg if you don't want to alienate half of your constituency, you might want to rethink your opinions of some sectors of society! These people have problems greg, you can't just EXCLUDE them and hope they go away.

I am truly shocked
i think greg was playing devil's advocate a bit there.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 01:51 AM   #89
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Maybe so, but still. I dont think its two extremes. If a space is developed well, contains a certain type of businesses and is not confined to upper floor or 9 to 5 uses, then you have have a healthy public environment.

When you rely on private companies to look after the streetscape beacuse the local authority can't be arsed to propely plan and maintain the area... thats a problem.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 03:06 AM   #90
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American Apparel and Urban Outfitters would be two fantastic additions to the city. Same if Zara could return too. One thing for sure is that with the new Eldon Square extension freeing up a lot of unite there's a lot of very attractive opportunities out there for retailers.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Monument Mall was seeking new tenants in such a desperate fashion.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 03:39 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilfBurnsFan View Post
I don't want 'public' realm where only consumers or potential consumers are welcomed; I don't want to be 'policed' by private security guards hired by private companies who are not accountable to democratic scrutiny. I don't want 'nice' plasticised Stepford urban settings and especially not at the price of individual liberty. The alternative to Liverpool One is not one that is full of "winos, scallies and beggars hassling you the whole time ... vandalised to buggery and infested with swarms of smackheads and yobs"; it is a city - a polis - open to all and decently policed. It is a city where the lounger and the tramp can pass through as much as the shopper or business-person, where teenagers aren't segregated, marginalised and desocialised. A city is, or should be, the summation of modern civilisation, not a machine to enable the rich to treat the rest of us as milch cows and to exclude those who won't or can't play along.
Thirded (if that's even a phrase/word)
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 12:47 PM   #92
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I wasn't advocating, I was just noting that there is another perspective on this and that a lot of people would prefer the cleaner, safer urban environment. The covered spaces of Eldon Square have different "rules" to the street outside. There is ultimately a difference between genuinely public spaces and streets and what is in effect private property.

In terms of "properly policed", I note Newcastle now has the BID-funded NE1 street wardens who are visible and not over-zealous, but who will politely move people on (or call in the police) if they are causing a public nuisance in public areas. Is this inappropriate?
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 01:04 PM   #93
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The public realm/ policing issue is a tricky one, and it's easy for everyone to go the extreme's of their views. I don't know much about the situation at Liverpool One. Who exactly is getting moved on? Is it tramps trying to set up their blankets and dog etc in shop doorways, or people who aren't wearing brand names, or groups of kids, or 'hoodies'? The shops and shopping centre owners are obviously just looking out for themselves and their consumers, and couldn't give a flying f*ck about the other stuff unless it's disuading the shoppers (which it appears doesn't happen). You can't blame them too much for that, they have no moral obligation to be custodians of the city's public realm, and natural vibrancy. It would be nice to think that they did care, and that to make the shoppers happy they'd keep things clean, allow a few street performers in to liven the place up, maybe sacrifice a bit of shopping space for a pocket park, but as places like the Metrocentre show, shoppers don't care really. Somewhere it's got to come down to authorities. Maybe something like the BID stuff is the right way to do it. Am I right in thinking that they are in part funded/ supported by local shops and businesses? If so, then that's great, as partnership between local authorities, local businesses, and local, people is the ideal situation really.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 01:07 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregstone View Post
I wasn't advocating, I was just noting that there is another perspective on this and that a lot of people would prefer the cleaner, safer urban environment. The covered spaces of Eldon Square have different "rules" to the street outside. There is ultimately a difference between genuinely public spaces and streets and what is in effect private property.

In terms of "properly policed", I note Newcastle now has the BID-funded NE1 street wardens who are visible and not over-zealous, but who will politely move people on (or call in the police) if they are causing a public nuisance in public areas. Is this inappropriate?
But Liverpool One has effectively turned the streets it controls into outdoor versions of Eldon Square. This surrender of the public to the private by Liverpool City Council is a deeply worrying development and one which should be resisted. As for the street wardens: what are their powers, what are their instructions, who gives those instructions, who defines 'public nuisance'? Are they, for example, going to stop people taking photographs for supposed 'reasons of security', or demanding licences/notices of permission as increasingly the case in these areas of privatised realm? It seems that a whole new area of 'democratic deficit' is being created in the heart of our cities, and this is a development that should be resisted to the utmost.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 07:27 PM   #95
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I'm all for more public spaces, but it requires something to be done about the rapidly declining standard of the public. If that's the likes of the Boys-In-BID moving on the feral underclass that would otherwise blight such spaces, so be it.
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Old October 24th, 2009, 12:38 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
zara moved because there was not enough storage.
NBS taking KFC unit.
American retailer moving into new eldon square development (probs americal apparel)
urban outfitters were going to go into Monument Mall, mall managers turned down opportunity.
jamie olivers restaurant chain were to go into old eldon square, but has been put on hold.
hood street will not get boss, ralph or d&g. we dont have footfall or retailer requirements.
tommi hilfiger, armani exchange, new era (caps), bose looking for space.
footlocker relocating off northumberland street, probs into eldon square opposite USC.
- am surprised KFC is closing on Northumberland Street- it always seemed busy
- I would put money on an american retailer being Urban Outfitters or Hollister- American Apperel stores arent usually that big (or the ones I have seen anyway- Liverpool One as an example) and I doubt they would have wanted double units. I could be wrong though.
- Tommi Hilfiger armania exchange- they migth be looking- as they probably are all over the UK- but they will not find what they are looking for in Newcatsle or the Metro Centre- that is areas of the city with high end retailers concentrated
Yes noticed Footlocker is moving as is the cheap shoe store a few down- a few new pitches for northumberland street- i just prey to god they dont get snapped up by- phone shops/ coffee shops/ banks and Building societies

Monument Mall turning down Urban Outfitters is about as likley as the Queen becoming a muslim. The above mentioned retailer may well have looked at the Zavvi store and decided against it. The fact they are keen for barclays to take their main units shows desperation- it will totally kill off the mall IMO.

I do hope that the availablity of eldon square units due to relocation will see the arrival of new retailers the city is lacking- Zara- Mango etc- I am rather optimistic about this.

As for the emoty ones in Grainger Town- I am less optimistic- does the Council have any concerns about one of their most prominent and important regen project? And is there any work going on to promote the area?
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Old October 24th, 2009, 12:47 PM   #97
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I hope we don't get more Liverpool One type situations- taking public streets away from the citizens of the city. Liverpool One is good- although I found the St Johns Street part simply a 3 storied shopping mall with out a roof- even has escalators. But lets not foget we have already suffered of a Liverpool One situation in the 1970's when Eldon Square took away loads of streets, and seperated areas that were previoulsy linked.
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Old October 24th, 2009, 12:50 PM   #98
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I'm all for more public spaces, but it requires something to be done about the rapidly declining standard of the public. If that's the likes of the Boys-In-BID moving on the feral underclass that would otherwise blight such spaces, so be it.
Those spaces have got to be around the monument- its seems every charver and their dog sits around it and around the entrance of eldon square by there. It is rather initmating TBH. I wish they would just knock that part of Eldon Square down. reopne the link with Clyton and Eldon Square and open new large retail units along blcakett street and put the final part into the successful regen of the old square- so badly blighted by 1970's madness.
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Old October 24th, 2009, 02:20 PM   #99
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Agreed about that stretch of Eldon Square. I doubt the owners are going to be willing to get rid of the shops (and associated rents in that bit).

The good things about that part are that jewellery shop "Eve" and the highly lovely girls who work in it and Pizza Hut Express
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Old October 24th, 2009, 03:58 PM   #100
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I think the BID scheme is a good one, to a point. As has been said, the businesses in the city centre are primarily concentrated on making money/a profit. However I'm sure many do care about the state of the street outside their door, although the competitive side of things means that they won't invest in cleaning the street etc unless everyone else does. The BID scheme therefore is great.

However as Wilf says, whose interests will these guys serve? If we have tramps, a quickly multiplying charver class, hooligans etc, that's part of society. We shouldn't accept it, we should address it, not pretend it isn't there by brushing it under the carpet. And activities such as protesting is a vital part of a healthy society and shouldn't be banned because it makes the grazing cattle shoppers stop and pull their head out of the trough for a second...

And I appreciate that Greg isn't necessarily pro-privatisation of public space and is simply making a point, but this privatisation must be opposed at every turn.
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