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Old January 12th, 2010, 11:24 PM   #41
johnnypd
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I went to one of the public engagements on Science city at St James Park and then at St Mathews church Hall for a discussion of how the development might effect residents in the west of the city- I live locally. I really admired the vision; the presentation was slick, exciting and engaging but there was always one gaping problem. A very large site with nothing but a small pot of public from the council and uni but not a single penny on the table from industry. This made me feel a little uneasy, I just couldn't see how such a vast area could grow in a matter of a few years into one of the largest science sites in the world with out any commitment from anyone with money. There are already large research sites in Newcastle: at Centre for Life, The General, The Freeman/RVI and the University and from what I could sense no one thought science city was anything other than a very speculative gamble. These establishments already have space for development a strong research history, links to industry and would probably be better locations for 'medical' research to expand - organically. Science city is too ambitious. If another developer like Downey wanted a parcel of land to build on, the council would be wise to bite off their hand.
i was also at the SJP presentation. so was Greg. pity nothing has moved forward since then.

I would hope for something like Potsdamerplatz in Berlin, Hafencity in Hamburg or Bjorvika in Oslo to go on the science city site, following those sorts of principals for development.

Potsdamerplatz/leipzigerplatz was in two parts, one in which the city authorities re-established the old octagonal city plan and sold off plots individually, and the main bit which was subject to a competition for a general masterplan. this masterplan site was divided into four sections and each piece sold off to the likes of Sony, Daimler Benz etc who designed and built the buildings.

Hafencity has been developed by a publicly owned development company who set out roads, infrastructure, design codes etc and then sell off individual plots to developers, using the money raised to move onto the next phase of planning.

Bjorvika/Barcode is a mainly private development adhering to a masterplan, formulated through a a competition, that proposes different styled buildings on long, narrow plots (hence the 'barcode' name) which are financed or bought by developers who bring in their own architects to finalise the designs of each building.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 12:32 AM   #42
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I was at the St Matthews one as well
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Old January 13th, 2010, 01:08 AM   #43
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It is a shame. Newcastle were the only one of the cities to properly embrace it, and I admire the ambition, especially as we seem to lack a bit of it on this side of the river in the last decade. But now its time to pull the socks up an move on. Start bringing the land into temporary use, like Jonny said, get the infrastructure in place, sort out the public open spaces and the other parts the council and uni will retain so they look tidy. Then sell of remaining chunks.

Its the only way I think. 20 years is the forecast for the effects of this recession and its just too long to have a hole in the ground.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 12:43 PM   #44
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Thinking about it, I'm not convinced the site will be developed for quite some time, if Science City fails. In terms of office space we've already got the Stephenson Quarter being developed along with a few other blocks around Gallowgate, plus maybe some in the pipeline at EPS? Developers won't want to build office blocks until they know that they can fill them and I think that'll be a while off.

That would leave the site mainly to be developed for housing, which wouldn't be such a bad thing I guess - an iconic brand new high density neighbourhood immediately adjacent to the city centre. However in that case I think you'd maybe need to scrap the redevelopment of Scotswood (no terrible thing?) and hopefully slow things down at Newcastle Great Park.

Hafencity looks pretty interesting by the way Johnny, I'd never heard of the place before. Not sure I'd want a Potsdamerplatz though, I found the place incredibly cold when I visited it (not in terms of temperature by the way!).

When I get home I'll finally open a flickr account and post some photos of a Dutch development that I think would work here...

Last edited by AngerOfTheNorth; January 13th, 2010 at 03:25 PM.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 02:11 PM   #45
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Right, thought I'd quickly do this before heading into uni (wasn't nearly as quick as I had hoped...).

Anyway, have a look at this development in Amsterdam - in many ways it goes completely against the sort of "street and square" layout most urban design best practice preaches. However this seems to really work well so far and I really like some of the blocks here. The development is the Funenpark on Cruquiuskade.









The rest of my photostream is here, might be worth a browse:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/angerofthenorth/
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Old January 13th, 2010, 02:12 PM   #46
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Hmmm... That didn't work so well... Any hints on what I'm doing wrong?
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Old January 13th, 2010, 02:31 PM   #47
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Flickr doesn't work on SSC anymore, Photobucket is a better option.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 03:01 PM   #48
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Sigh... Ah well, cheers for telling me Chris, I'd have spent ages trying to re-attach those photos.

Might give photobucket a go at some point then. In the mean time, feel free to browse the link, some interesting stuff in there if you're into architecture etc.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 03:08 PM   #49
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It seems if you open your image to its full size on Flickr, then right click and open properties and copy its URL into the Insert Image feature on here it works.

Are these the photos you were trying to show:

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


Images from AngerOfTheNorth. http://www.flickr.com/photos/angerofthenorth/
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Old January 13th, 2010, 03:14 PM   #50
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Cheers Planning! I wasn't opening the pictures to full size...

The development seems to work because there's a huge wall of apartments around it, largely cutting this internalised park off from the surrounding streets (and neighbouring train line), as you can see from the map.

image hosted on flickr


(This is the last of my photos on this thread, I promise!)

Last edited by AngerOfTheNorth; January 13th, 2010 at 03:24 PM.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 03:17 PM   #51
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I quite like the look of it actually. I'm guessing this is all residential though?
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Old January 13th, 2010, 03:26 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngerOfTheNorth View Post


Sigh... Ah well, cheers for telling me Chris, I'd have spent ages trying to re-attach those photos.

Might give photobucket a go at some point then. In the mean time, feel free to browse the link, some interesting stuff in there if you're into architecture etc.
Sos, never got a chance to tell you before you posted. I know SSC was having troulbe with Flickr, obviously at the moment it seems some of thos problems have been resovled, but they may still come back, so I use in Photobucket.

Anyway, ahving seen the pics, I'm not soo keen on those buildings, I know the Dutch like modern arcitecture, but I'm not keen on that example.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 03:35 PM   #53
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Yeah, all residential apart from office and shop units on the outside of the wall along the southern edge. There's quite a few shops (including a supermarket) about 100m or so from the entrance to the development though.

Don't worry Chris, it is very "blocky" admittedly so isn't going to be to a lot of people's tastes. You get that a lot in the Netherlands. The better architects though use higher quality brick, different brickwork patterns and interesting window layouts to break it up a little (like here).

I think it works (in terms of not having social problems you often get with a lack of ownership of space) because the spaces between buildings are pretty small. There's no spaces which aren't heavily overlooked, so it feels really safe. There were loads of kids out playing which is a good sign.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 05:23 PM   #54
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i like the buildings, but i don't think the enclosed nature of that development would be good for this particular site. on a smaller scale though the principal of a shielding block and smaller, more intimate spaces behind it could work, say on the part of Science City that borders westgate road?
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Old January 13th, 2010, 05:53 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigchrisfgb View Post
Sos, never got a chance to tell you before you posted. I know SSC was having troulbe with Flickr, obviously at the moment it seems some of thos problems have been resovled, but they may still come back, so I use in Photobucket.

Anyway, ahving seen the pics, I'm not soo keen on those buildings, I know the Dutch like modern arcitecture, but I'm not keen on that example.
As far as I know, the trouble was with the Newcastle City/City Libraries Photostream, which was on 'flickr'. It wasn't because it was flickr, it was because the City re-organised their 'photostream' and so all the references used to embed photos onto here, ceased to work.

The mods have just deleted about 20 posts from the Historic Newcastle thread (with the agreement of hollowman and Gregstone who were the posters) because of that problem, as they had become 'empty posts'.

The 'Photostream' is now 100% ok, and is again included withing Section 7 of the "WEBSITES" thread - as per below . .

NEWCASTLE CITY COUNCIL & CITY LIBRARIES - PHOTOSTREAM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/
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Old January 13th, 2010, 05:55 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Newcastle Historian View Post
As far as I know, the trouble was with the Newcastle City/City Libraries Photostream, which was on 'flickr'. It wasn't because it was flickr, it was because the City re-organised their 'photostream' and so all the references used to embed photos onto here, ceased to work.

The mods have just deleted about 20 posts from the Historic Newcastle thread (with the agreement of hollowman and Gregstone who were the posters) because of that problem, as they had become 'empty posts'.

The 'Photostream' is now 100% ok, and is again included withing Section 7 of the "WEBSITES" thread - as per below . .

NEWCASTLE CITY COUNCIL & CITY LIBRARIES - PHOTOSTREAM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/
Yes, I saw aware of that, but I'm sure elsewhere on SSC people were having problems with Flickr. If it's seems to be working again then theirs no problem with using it.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 06:47 PM   #57
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While it's apparent that nothing is going to happen on the site they should definitely create an Elswick metro station at the top corner (as in towards the top of the Westagte Road side) of the site. I suppose there would be difficulty in the first few metres from SJP to under the Downing/Brewery HQ site though.

I can't see any large science based companies locating to Science City especially given the size of the plot. Those organisations that could have taken up large chunks of the plot, such as Proctor and Gamble, already have well established locations. Although companies do relocate from time to time it would have been a good idea to canvas for people to take plots before the whole scheme launched.

For smaller organisations and spin-off companies from established research organisations (Newcastle Uni, Centre for Life) how can you even anticipate when one of these might arise and require the space? Even if the council constructed the buildings themselves they might sit unoccupied for years (decades?) and by then not fit the requirements of the companies and presumably their space requirements would be small at least for the first couple of years.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 07:07 PM   #58
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While it's apparent that nothing is going to happen on the site they should definitely create an Elswick metro station at the top corner (as in towards the top of the Westagte Road side) of the site. I suppose there would be difficulty in the first few metres from SJP to under the Downing/Brewery HQ site though.

I can't see any large science based companies locating to Science City especially given the size of the plot. Those organisations that could have taken up large chunks of the plot, such as Proctor and Gamble, already have well established locations. Although companies do relocate from time to time it would have been a good idea to canvas for people to take plots before the whole scheme launched.

For smaller organisations and spin-off companies from established research organisations (Newcastle Uni, Centre for Life) how can you even anticipate when one of these might arise and require the space? Even if the council constructed the buildings themselves they might sit unoccupied for years (decades?) and by then not fit the requirements of the companies and presumably their space requirements would be small at least for the first couple of years.
good idea. the line already stretches under Barrack Road and underneath the downing development. What better time to extend than when the land is completely empty? Of course, this is the exact sort of opportunity we always pass up in the U.K.
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Old January 15th, 2010, 01:18 AM   #59
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I can't see any large science based companies locating to Science City especially given the size of the plot. Those organisations that could have taken up large chunks of the plot, such as Proctor and Gamble, already have well established locations. Although companies do relocate from time to time it would have been a good idea to canvas for people to take plots before the whole scheme launched.

For smaller organisations and spin-off companies from established research organisations (Newcastle Uni, Centre for Life) how can you even anticipate when one of these might arise and require the space? Even if the council constructed the buildings themselves they might sit unoccupied for years (decades?) and by then not fit the requirements of the companies and presumably their space requirements would be small at least for the first couple of years.
It's all a far cry from the early optimism about Science City, and about Science Central, in particular.

In November 2007, it was going to be . . .

"The Piccadily Circus of the North"
(T Dan Smith eat your heart out!)


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Old March 2nd, 2010, 10:25 AM   #60
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.
This article from todays's Journal (2nd March 2010) has also been copied into the "East Pilgrim Street" thread . .

Newcastle City Council chief executive gives recession warning
Mar 2 2010 by Adrian Pearson, The Journal



THE head of the region's top local authority has warned that there is a nine-month window of opportunity to change the face of Tyneside for a decade.

Barry Rowland, chief executive of Newcastle City Council, was speaking as he looked back on his first year in the post, during which time he has overseen a huge cost-cutting programme that has resulted in hundreds of redundancies.

But the council has also been progressing a number of large programmes that will transform the face of the city, including the redevelopment of the Pilgrim Street area of the city centre and ploughing cash into plans for a science research headquarters near St James’ Park.

With a General Election due in the next few weeks and a tightening of public spending expected to follow, Mr Rowland has warned that the authority has to press on with its development plans.

Mr Rowland said: “We had a chance when I took over to either sit tight, consolidate what we had and wait out the recession or take the risks and be brave.

“I think we made the right decision because if we do not help lead the city out of recession, who will?

“My mantra now is that we have to finish what we have started, get our flagship schemes done.

“We have plenty of plans and strategies which are all thought through but they will be for nothing if we do not make them happen.

“We don’t have a long time. I think what we have here is a window of opportunity. What we do in the next six or nine months will set out our future for the next decade.

“We have had to be confident and brave and take those decisions, not rushed but with one eye on the clock and in an intelligent manner.”

Mr Rowland said the council streamlining process he oversaw was “tough but necessary” and that it has left the authority in good shape for expected cuts in Government funding.

He said: “We had already started preparing for a tighter period of spending a couple of years ago. We knew we had to make ourselves as efficient an organisation as possible to prepare for these changes and I think as a result we are one of the best placed authorities now.
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