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Old November 17th, 2004, 05:41 AM   #1
Fir3blaze
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[INDONESIA] Defence and Military Issues

Hey guys,
Lets continue the defence discussions here.

@yama : yeah, it has been fun!
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Old November 17th, 2004, 11:18 AM   #2
JAG2
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Hi guys is it true that the Army s main battle tank is a French AMX13 and British Centurion and that they have Russian BVR ?
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Old November 17th, 2004, 11:29 AM   #3
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Well at least Indonesia has F16s and Submarines. Philippines' military is so weak...we only have 2 F5s.

I dont think Indonesia needs F-22s. They just need an aircraft carrier to patrol the archipeligo filled with F18s and MiG-29s.
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Old November 17th, 2004, 11:31 AM   #4
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nice F16 btw...
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Old November 17th, 2004, 02:40 PM   #5
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Indonesia doesnt have MBT because it cant support the operation in Indonesia, which is mainly jungle and the landbase concrete is not strong enough to hold such MBTs operation.

Indonesia do have light tank such as Scorpion with 90mm turret and AMX-10/13p which recently upgraded by the Singaporean company. Only Singapore and Indonesia operates AMXs in ASEAN.

The future procurement for Indonesia are to have 2 squadron of Sukhois, 4 submarines due to arrive early next year by South Korean company (the 2 existing subs are undergoing some refurbishment in Daewoo to extent the life for another 10-15 years) and 5 more, yes 5 more LPD class ship. The project for the navy expected to cost more than their counterparts, Since the Navy seek to buy Sigma corvettes from the Netherland and thats including tech transfer to PT PAL, who later will build the remaining 3 corvettes in the country.

Anyway GreyX, Indonesia seek to buy more Su 27SK/30MKK, to complete the remaining 4 arrive last year. Su27SK/30MKK are better than F-18/Mig-29s. I dont know if TNI AU will purchase BVR anytime soon, they are considering Kh-31 missiles.

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Old November 17th, 2004, 09:07 PM   #6
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Su27/30s are definitely better than F-18s and Mig-29s in air-to-air performance. I simply mentioned the F/A-22 as a cost comparison, Indonesia would never get it.

Cool thread by the way.

I like this picture a lot:


Last edited by Yamauchi; November 17th, 2004 at 09:18 PM.
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Old November 18th, 2004, 02:33 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyX
Well at least Indonesia has F16s and Submarines. Philippines' military is so weak...we only have 2 F5s.
Grey, U kidding me? Philippines only got 2 F-5s? I'm sure they got other types of combat aircrafts right?

By they way, aside from the Sigma corvettes, TNI-AL is also engaging some local companies (PT PAL, LEN, PINDAD, etc) to design and build a corvette class vessel. Haven't seen the designs yet though.

About the BVRs, they should come soon, man...I mean our Sukhois have been sitting around "teethless" for almost a year now.
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Old November 18th, 2004, 02:40 AM   #8
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Btw, here's some rendering on the Sigma class corvettes
*Edit* the one that Indonesia's ordering is the 9113 variant, the largest among three variant shown in the pic *edit*

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Old November 18th, 2004, 03:54 AM   #9
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Will they have any helos for the Sigmas?
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Old November 18th, 2004, 12:31 PM   #10
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Yes, Super Puma......Too bad TNI AL didnt finalised the order of SuperLynx during 1996 which later cancelled because the asian financial crisis in 1998

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Old November 18th, 2004, 01:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fir3blaze
Grey, U kidding me? Philippines only got 2 F-5s? I'm sure they got other types of combat aircrafts right?
Nope..im not kidding. Thats all the jet fighters we have defending our nation It is sad. But of course, filipinos make jokes that we have a Nimitz Class Aircraft Carrier packed with F/A-18s and F14s in the pacific ocean gaurding our country that just so happens to have US Navy stickers and paint on them

Yeah, you guys are right SU27/30s are better than the MiGs (against F18s and F14s is debatable).
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Old November 18th, 2004, 01:50 PM   #12
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Well...Super Pumas can make reasonably good naval helicopters. but...erm..if they'd bought the superlynx ...wow,that'd be a major boost. (Since it's capable of carrying anti-ship missiles, and equipped with search radar). I think the Super Pumas will not have those. Correct me if i'm wrong.

Anyway, the Sigmas will pack quite a punch. 2X2 Exocet launchers, 76mm OTO-melara gun, and 2X4 Mistral AAM launchers.
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Old November 18th, 2004, 09:12 PM   #13
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Depends on which version of the F-18 we're talking about. They're better than the F/A-18A/B/C/D, but about even with the E/F Superhornet (I'm assuming). The F-14 rocks, but most in service are about 30 years old.

I thought at one time Taiwan offered the Philippines some of the 200 F-5s they retired for only maintenance costs but were rejected because of political reasons.
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Old November 19th, 2004, 09:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamauchi
Depends on which version of the F-18 we're talking about. They're better than the F/A-18A/B/C/D, but about even with the E/F Superhornet (I'm assuming). The F-14 rocks, but most in service are about 30 years old.

I thought at one time Taiwan offered the Philippines some of the 200 F-5s they retired for only maintenance costs but were rejected because of political reasons.
Because China opposed it and the Philippines did not want to jeopordise their relationship.

but at one point, Philippines was close to getting F18s...but it didnt push through. but enough of me talking about RP in the Indo forum...what are sigmas?
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Old November 19th, 2004, 09:59 AM   #15
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Sigmas are the corvettes ship from Dutch company, fir3blaze posted the picture above.

Well, super puma has the capability to launh exocet though, it was modified by PT DI or previously IPTN.

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Old November 23rd, 2004, 03:27 AM   #16
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Indonesia to host first military expo


Tiarma Siboro, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta

Indonesia is set to host its first defense industry showcase, featuring over 250 prominent companies from around the world, from Wednesday through Saturday.

A variety of products will be on show during the three-day exhibition at the Jakarta International Expo in the Kemayoran fairground in Central Jakarta, including Russian-made Sukhoi jet fighters, military trucks, Steyr gas-operated semi- and fully automatic assault rifles, integrated shore-based communications systems for maritime security, head protectors and military boots.

Minister of Defense Juwono Sudarsono said on Monday that the event, called Indo Defense 2004, would help visitors and trade delegates develop business contacts and networks.

"However, we are not expecting all the participants to directly strike business deals during the expo," Juwono said.

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, who is on his way home from the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit in Santiago, is expected to open the exhibition.

Apart from Russia's Rosoboronexport State Corporation, which produces Sukhoi aircraft, other top names taking part in the defense expo include Steyr Mannlicher and Interarms, Oerlikon Contraves, Teijin Twaron GMBH, Daimler Chrysler, Korea Aerospace Industries Ltd., Daewoo Heavy Industry and Machinery Ltd., Britain's Rolls-Royce International Ltd., Kazan Helicopters, Russia's Rosverthol, Indian-Russian joint venture company Brahmo Aerospace, and, from Indonesia, the Army's munitions manufacturer PT Pindad, the Navy's shipbuilder PT PAL and state aircraft maker PT Dirgantara Indonesia.

The event comes as the defense ministry under Juwono is moving to streamline the military procurement process, which will start with the drawing up of a list of the hundreds of contractors that supply the country with its military equipment.

Indonesia has been seeking alternative suppliers of arms and other military equipment following an embargo imposed by the United States after East Timor atrocities following the former province's separation from Indonesia in 1999.

In the past year, the administration of former president Megawati Soekarnoputri bought four Sukhois and two Mi-35 assault helicopters from Russia and two submarines from South Korea as part of an attempt to rebuild the country's defense capabilities, which the military claims have been decimated by the U.S. embargo.

Defense experts from various countries will find a forum where they can exchange views, with a series of seminars on strategic security and defense issues in the Asia Pacific region due to be held on the sidelines of the exhibition.
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Old November 23rd, 2004, 03:28 AM   #17
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ROSOBORONEXPORT TO EMERGE AT INDONESIA ARMS EXHIBITION


MOSCOW, November 22 (RIA Novosti's Olga Semyonova) - At the first arms and military hardware exhibition INDO DEFENCE-2004 EXPO&FORUM, due in Jakarta in Indonesia on November 24 through 27, the FGUP Rosoboronexport will showcase versatile products of the Russian defence sector from the latest Su and Mig fighters to the renowned Kalashnikov automatic weapons.

"We will display the multifunctional Su-27SK and Su-30MK fighters; multifunctional attack plane Su-39 with the radar sight complex Kopye. We'll demonstrate the unique capabilities of the MiG-31E fighter-interceptor and the Yak-130 trainer," the Rosoboronexport spokesman told RIA Novosti before flying to Jakarta.

A place of pride in the Russian exhibition will be given to Mil and Kamov gunship, troop-carrier and reconnaissance helicopters - combat Mi-28NE; combat transport Mi-35, Mi-35P and Mi-35M; assault transport Mi-17-1V; radar picket Ka-31.

"Of the air-defence specimens brought along, specialists and visitors at the exhibition will inspect the 300VM Antei-2500 antiaircraft missile system, cutting-edge missile system S-300 PMU-2 Favorit and get exhaustive information on the antiaircraft missile systems of medium and small range Buk-M1-2 and Tor-M1, Pechora-2, Tunguska-M1, Osa-AKM, portable antiaircraft system Igla", the interviewee said.

He believes that foreign customers may find interest in the Zoopark radar system for missile and artillery positions surveillance; portable radar Fara-1 for group targets surveillance and aiming; radar Kredo-1 for moving surface targets surveillance; anti-radar protection system Gazetchik-E against self-aiming shells.

The Russian land forces exhibition will display the T-90S tank; T-72M1 updated tank with fire-control and heat-seeking sight of foreign make; updated light floating tank PT-76B; infantry combat vehicles BMP-3, BMP-3F; armoured personnel carriers BTR-90, BTR-80 and BTR-80A; self-propelled howitzer 2S19 Msta-S; as well as antitank missile systems Kornet-E and Metis-M1.

Rosoboronexport will showcase the well-known updated multiple-launch systems Grad and Smerch (RSZO), a multiple-launch version with the remote-controlled manned aircraft Pchela-1 (DPLA).

The Russian naval exhibition will show small coastal submarines Piranya, Piranya-T, Piranya-2; the escort ship Korsar; patrol boats Mirazh, Merkuri and Mangust; landing hovercrafts Murena-E and Chilim. Alongside them are different weapon systems - the shipborne missile system Uran-E with antiship missiles H-35E; shipborne rocket system with antiship cruise missiles Yakhont; shipborne antiaircraft missile systems Rif-M, Shtil-1 and Klinok.

Rosoboronexport will also present small arms like the Kashtan and Bizon-2 submachine-guns; improved Kalashnikov automatic weapons AK-101, AK-102, AK-103 and AK-104; Dragunov sniper rifles.
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Old November 23rd, 2004, 04:34 AM   #18
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Indonesia Defence Minister .... Reject on US Condition

Last Night I watched Metro TV.
That Indonesia Reject the condition from US for normalizing the military cooperation.
The US govt. wants Indonesia to ( skor = apa ya inggeris nya ? ) pejabat polisi dan militer yang terlibat kasus Timika dan Timor Timur.

Indonesia Defence Minister Say :
The Legal Process in Indonesia is merely Indonesian Business and cannot be pressed by other nation.
Indonesia regrets US that always use human rights to interfere other nation, in fact US itself has done many human right violations ... ( iraq, afghanistan etc. etc. )

PAK Juwono Sudarsono I am fully supporting you ....



Jakarta to press US on arms ban
Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono waves to reporters, 4 October 2004
Mr Yudhoyono plans to meet Mr Bush later this month
Indonesia's new defence minister is to visit the US to lobby for an end to Washington's arms embargo, as part of fresh moves to normalise relations.

Juwono Sudarsono will brief US officials about his country's need for arms and other military equipment.

The US banned weapons sales and direct military support to Indonesia because of the 1999 violence in East Timor.

Indonesia's new President Yudhoyono also hopes to meet President George W Bush at an Apec summit this month.

Foreign Minister Hassan Wirayuda gave no date for Mr Sudarsono's visit, but said it would take place early next year at the latest.

Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation, has emerged as a key player in Washington's so-called war on terror. The new government of Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, who won September's presidential election, is keen to present itself as a credible ally.

"We have really transformed ourselves into a democratic society," Indonesian Foreign Ministry spokesman Marty Natalegawa told BBC News.

"We feel that it is important that this new reality should be reflected by the United States."

Mr Bush is one of the leaders the new Indonesian President plans to meet on the sidelines of the Apec conference in Chile, which begins on 20 November.

Washington broke off military ties with Indonesia after pro-Jakarta militias went on the rampage in East Timor during and after the province's vote for independence from Indonesia in 1999.

It has insisted that those responsible must be held accountable before normal ties can resume.

Refugees in East Timor, 1999
Many thought responsible for East Timor's 1999 bloodshed walk free
US officials have expressed disappointment at the outcome of Indonesian tribunals set up to try those accused.

Last week, a court overturned a conviction against Abilio Soares, the last Indonesian governor of East Timor and the only man jailed over the violence. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3998821.stm
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Old November 23rd, 2004, 06:35 AM   #19
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How is that good news or a thumbs up? The United States was preparing to provide hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid and lift the arms embargo, but it was rejected by the US congress because of East Timor and the Papuan incident. Now we see the Indonesian armed services being very unprofessional, such as a few months ago when getting in an argument they went and got their buddies, loaded up in a truck, and slaughtered some civilians.

So, the Indonesian people suffer under an unprofessional army, and the armed services suffer from the lack of needed equipment because of this man's pride. I was hoping Indonesia would enter a new era, but now my hopes are a bit crushed. Every great power has gotten to their position by utilizing the superpowers for their benefit. That's just a simple study of politics and economics.
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Old November 23rd, 2004, 06:50 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamauchi
How is that good news or a thumbs up? The United States was preparing to provide hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid and lift the arms embargo, but it was rejected by the US congress because of East Timor and the Papuan incident. Now we see the Indonesian armed services being very unprofessional, such as a few months ago when getting in an argument they went and got their buddies, loaded up in a truck, and slaughtered some civilians.
Please Try to compare ...
Bombing many innocent people in the Mousque.
Bombing people who celebrate marriage party.
Bring Millions of millions... of innocent poeple in uncertainty condition.

That What people always see .....
If there is a single or some Indonesia military doing not proper action, they pictured it and tape it .... then distribute everywhere ......... as suggest that all Indonesia military do the same thing.

While ....

When ...Others .... ???

Ruler rule the world
Ruler rule the value
Ruler rule the news
Ruler rule everything rudely .....

( I hope you know what I mean by ruler )

Once Again ... Supporting Mr Yuwono ....
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