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Old September 29th, 2011, 07:45 AM   #61
ja'far
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xusein View Post
It's an acquired taste.
Stay away from it, or you could be hooked for life.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 07:46 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by abesha View Post
Why are you ignoring my post Xusien? The one right above Janub's (we posted at the same time).
I didn't respond because his post below yours summarized my point and felt it was sufficient.

Should I be giving praise to Ugandan soldiers who bomb Bakaara market and kill innocent civilians instead?

Turkey did give peacekeepers to the first ill-fated intervention in Somalia (a first of many failed missions) BTW.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 07:49 AM   #63
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His post didn't explain anything.

I'll just stick to my original opinion.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 07:52 AM   #64
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If you don't understand it, then I can't help you.

Ja'far, war ninyahow, I can't resist. I tried to stop after Ramadan and went back on the stuff. It doesn't help that most of my friends smoke it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bayviews View Post
However, with all those responsibilities, were I in Turkey's position I'd stay clear of Somalia. It's not really worth becoming the US of the Middle East & Muslim World. Africa!
They know what they are doing and they will prosper. Unlike the US, they don't need to invade and kill to get what they want.

I wager that it will go better than the failed attempts made.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 07:53 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abesha View Post
His post didn't explain anything.

I'll just stick to my original opinion.
Yes, African nations are horrible and have the audacity not to be as rich as Qatar and Turkey, the travesty they even go as far as not treating Somalia like a country. They should vacate the AU in protest of such an offense of this magnitude.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 07:58 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xusein View Post
If you don't understand it, then I can't help you.

Ja'far, war ninyahow, I can't resist. I tried to stop after Ramadan and went back on the stuff. It doesn't help that most of my friends smoke it.
War Sxb, in Toronto its becoming quite popular. Even my cousin is opening a bar for it soon. I just don't know waxa ku dhacay dadkeena.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 08:02 AM   #67
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@Xusien, war sxb caawa kuwaan maxkamad beyku saareen. Iskadhaaf.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 08:06 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abesha View Post
His post didn't explain anything.

I'll just stick to my original opinion.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 08:11 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by ja'far View Post
War Sxb, in Toronto its becoming quite popular. Even my cousin is opening a bar for it soon. I just don't know waxa ku dhacay dadkeena.
LOL, I have been up there plenty times and used it with people up there.

Better than qaad ama khamri.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ja'far View Post
@Xusien, war sxb caawa kuwaan maxkamad beyku saareen. Iskadhaaf.


Wayahay.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 08:30 AM   #70
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turkey can do better than just aid generally aid can only be effective in a working state, in the case of somalia it has to take in refugees, just 2000 refugees can't be a big issue for a country that wants to put itself ahead in the muslim world, but turkey as a state has never been good with refugees and will not be able to offer them any kind of security, so i doubt it can handle offering somalis any asylum which is disappointing to me
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Old September 29th, 2011, 09:03 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abesha View Post
It doesn't matter what African countries do or don't do. They'll never be credited for the effort. When a Muslim country does something, it's congratulated, when a non-Muslim country goes in, it's an American agent, etc, etc. You are not being fair at all Xusien. If Sudan had sent in troops instead of Uganda, Sudan would have been praised as helping Somalis.
Look at how the rhetoric on this board has changed towards TFG. There's no consistency and logic to it.
+99999999999

Thank you!
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Old September 29th, 2011, 11:10 AM   #72
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Turkish Business Delegation Evaluates Proposed Somalia Projects

A Turkish business delegation arrived in Mogadishu to evaluate the cost of proposed projects in Mogadishu, the Somalia capital, following a visit by Prime Minister Recep Erdogan to the city last month.

The group of about 200 people includes engineers, doctors and businessmen, Saed Qorshel, the minister of state for transport, told reporters.

Erdogan in August proposed projects including the construction of a road that links Mogadishu’s main airport to the presidential palace, as well as building hospitals and schools.

Mogadishu’s infrastructure has been shattered by a two- decade-long civil war that began when the dictatorship of Mohamed Siad Barre was ousted in 1991, the last time the country had a functioning central administration.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...-projects.html

ps: for those saying Turkey just jumped in after 20 years

Quote:
The first Force Commander of UNOSOM II was Lieutenant-General Çevik Bir (Turkey), appointed in April 1993.
http://www.un.org/Depts/DPKO/Missions/unosom2b.htm

pps: In this region it has always been like this; Turkish companies go in Western companies follow, once Turkish companies start setting up shop in Somalia they will be followed by American and European companies.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 11:45 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arinze View Post
Yes we don't understand Thank you for clarifying that, let every African nation never make the mistake of handing anything they have again because heaven forbid a nation give what it can and not try to out compete the UAE or Turkey

Kenya should close up shop since they haven't been understanding for the past 20 years
Its easy to remember the man that gave you millions at one time and forget the man who gave what he could all the time apparently :|
Bingo
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Old September 29th, 2011, 12:02 PM   #74
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Whiles, Turkeys help is genuine, poor countries like Ethiopia, Kenya, Uganda and Burundi are trying to keep Somalia at the State it is Now.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 12:53 PM   #75
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Reading this thread, my incredulous expression has increased at how obtuse people are being.

The way US treats Somalia is infinetly different to how Turkey has.
Turkey appears to understand Somalia's history and culture, it does not see it as a never ending situation but one where opportunities can come from it. It has been doing this for longer than 2 months
US has used Somalia (anyone with a slight understanding of the Cold war era would recognize that) and didn't give anything back except weapons and a propping up of warlords
Many of our "neighbours" gain from seeing Somalia in the state it is and remaining that way, all have a hidden agenda and I'm sure Turkey does as well. But I doubt Turkey's agenda is as painful to Somalia and would benefit us.

And honestly, Ethiopia has hardly been a friend considering it's attack on Somalia led to the strengthening of Al Shabab by their very hand ... so Ethiopians step right back and get to the back of the queue with the complaints.

And wealth is hardly important. Somaliland has helped Somalia despite being poor, Yemen has always been credited with it's Somali population by Somalis. Both countries with very little money.

Turkey is creating scholarships for hundreds of Somalis who deserve it. No doubt creating a educated group who will go back to Somalia and give back.
It is funding infrastructure and helping the already existing economy grow.

It is not sending troops as a answer. It has not ignored the famine which is occurring and more importantly, it is viewing Somalia as a nation state rather than a basket case.
It is not, like other Muslim countries funding it's own religious interpretation and I hope Turkey does help make popular the idea of a secular Muslim country which is what I hope Somalia becomes in the future.
Turkey's help won't be forgotten in the long run and one day Somalia will come out of it's dark tunnel and with the help of the diaspora and a stable environment, surprise the world. Neither will Yemens and those who have taken the refugees and treated them well.

The fact that people are deliberately ignoring what is obvious is quite amusing to observe. Just read the post on the previous page and if you cannot understand then even I can't explain it to you.

Last edited by Lailax; September 29th, 2011 at 01:00 PM.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 01:27 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lailax View Post
Reading this thread, my incredulous expression has increased at how obtuse people are being.

The way US treats Somalia is infinetly different to how Turkey has.
Turkey appears to understand Somalia's history and culture, it does not see it as a never ending situation but one where opportunities can come from it. It has been doing this for longer than 2 months
US has used Somalia (anyone with a slight understanding of the Cold war era would recognize that) and didn't give anything back except weapons and a propping up of warlords
Many of our "neighbours" gain from seeing Somalia in the state it is and remaining that way, all have a hidden agenda and I'm sure Turkey does as well. But I doubt Turkey's agenda is as painful to Somalia and would benefit us.

And honestly, Ethiopia has hardly been a friend considering it's attack on Somalia led to the strengthening of Al Shabab by their very hand ... so Ethiopians step right back and get to the back of the queue with the complaints.

And wealth is hardly important. Somaliland has helped Somalia despite being poor, Yemen has always been credited with it's Somali population by Somalis. Both countries with very little money.

Turkey is creating scholarships for hundreds of Somalis who deserve it. No doubt creating a educated group who will go back to Somalia and give back.
It is funding infrastructure and helping the already existing economy grow.

It is not sending troops as a answer. It has not ignored the famine which is occurring and more importantly, it is viewing Somalia as a nation state rather than a basket case.
It is not, like other Muslim countries funding it's own religious interpretation and I hope Turkey does help make popular the idea of a secular Muslim country which is what I hope Somalia becomes in the future.
Turkey's help won't be forgotten in the long run and one day Somalia will come out of it's dark tunnel and with the help of the diaspora and a stable environment, surprise the world. Neither will Yemens and those who have taken the refugees and treated them well.

The fact that people are deliberately ignoring what is obvious is quite amusing to observe. Just read the post on the previous page and if you cannot understand then even I can't explain it to you.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 01:44 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janub View Post
I feel like some people are acting stupid purposely. Last I checked, Uganda is not a Muslim nation and I credited them with extending a hand to Somalia in the past (not the armed intervention but the academic cooperation given to students in Somalia). Some of you are picking a fight for no reason at all, even making things up as you go along or totally ignoring huge factors in the scenario.

I am the least of Turkey's fans and I personally don't care for Turkey as a nation and I thought their aid support to the famine plight was about vanity more than anything - but their support for Somalis and their institutions is telling of a genuine relationship.

If you go back to 2009, there was a major conference between all of Somalia's stakeholders. The conference was 10% about mending Somalia's political woes and 90% about reviving Somalia's economy. The Turks helped bridge a contract that brought together Somalia's 5 biggest telecom companies (including ones in Somaliland) to create a conglomerate that would become the largest employer in the nation's entire history. That conference on its own revived the Somali economy and its progress.

In the same way that the ex-colonialists prepared many Africans to study in their master nations in order to benefit and rule the newly-independent nations, Turkey is taking in hundreds of young Somalis to prepare them to return and care for their nation.

What is different about Turkey's approach to Somalia is glaringly obvious. Turkey views Somalia as a nation, not a case. Turkey actually understands that Somalia is of value and its people can be an asset. Turkey's approach to Somalia is social and economic, hardly even political. Turkey will be in Somalia long after the good rains have come and the famine ends. I have good feelings about this.

As I've said before, I'm no fan of Turkey the nation, but the relationship it has built with Somalia the past few years is deserving of the highest praise. I have no idea why the ladies here feel insecure about Turkey's maturity and bravery towards the Somali dilemma. Turkey is in no better position than many African states, like South Africa or Algeria - but it has the ambition and balls to tackle a huge issue - and like Xusein said, Turkey will reap the rewards by grooming the high-potential slumdog.

Iran has also smelt the savory Somali meal to come and is also working behind the scenes to play its own role in the nation's recovery. This is no longer about charity, this is about opportunity, and some people have smelt the meal to come.
That's pretty much all that should be said. It's amusing to see the red-herrings about "Arabs", and "Muslims", when you clearly mentioned a non-Muslim country like Uganda in your praise. These people come with their biased minds clearly made up, and enter Somali related topics feeling the need to air their own twisted issues with regards to this country and people.

Recap:

- Plenty of great major airline carriers in Africa, yet not a single one is beginning flights to Mogadishu, like Turkish Airlines has announced it will do.

- Several great African countries with fish-industries, yet not a single one has come forward to aid Somalia in the reconstruction of its own fish-industry, but Turkey has.

- Plenty of self-sufficient agricultural countries in Africa, yet not a single one has come forward to aid Somalia in this sector, but Turkey has.

- Plenty of prestigious educational institutions on the continent that could relief the Somali education sector by providing scholarships for a few hundred of the Somali students that can't afford or secure places in fully-booked Somali universities, no African country has made such an admirable decision as Turkey has.

- The Turkish president wasn't in any less danger than any foreign head of state, but he, a president of a G20 country visited Mogadishu with his family, and did not come under the cover of his own troops, unannounced.

- During the Summit on the drought-crisis 50 African countries were M.I.A, this is probably the darkest time for Somalia, yet 50 so-called brother countries didn't even bother to come as a symbol of solidarity, even if they didn't have a penny to spend. Turkey however organised the OIC and made the conference specifically about the crisis, which was a success, since it raised something like $500 million for the crisis.

How many times do you hear of 'African superpower this, African superpower that' on this forum? In the past a peaceful Somalia did plenty of selfless acts that threaten its own existence and standing in the International Community, this can't be compared to hosting refugees on your territory that are funded by the UN. Its pretty disgusting how the latter issue is used as a stick to beat Somalis with and portray them as "ungrateful" people, when we hosted plenty of non-Somalis in the past despite being poor.

Somalia has tons of resources to make it self-sufficient and capable of standing on its own feet, and clearly Turkey got that memo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abesha View Post
It doesn't matter what African countries do or don't do. They'll never be credited for the effort. When a Muslim country does something, it's congratulated, when a non-Muslim country goes in, it's an American agent, etc, etc. You are not being fair at all Xusien. If Sudan had sent in troops instead of Uganda, Sudan would have been praised as helping Somalis.
You think you got Somalis and Somalia all figured out, eh? Were those 24 Pakistanis mutilated by Aideed's forces not "Muslims"? When were they praised? Weren't they seen as part of an "American-led invasion"? Indeed they were, hence you don't have a clue what your discussing about, other than projecting your usual stereotype of what you think is the "Somali mentality".

Quote:
Look at how the rhetoric on this board has changed towards TFG. There's no consistency and logic to it.
There is no consistency or logic to politics unless you live for decades under the rule of a brutal dictator. No self-respecting Somali will support a majoritely draconian or corrupt group like Al-Shabaab or pre-Farmaajo TFG after their track-record of severe screw-ups in achieving long-term stability. A self-respecting Somali however will put his/her weight behind any new group that is making clear tangible progress in the country and seeking to bring it back to the fold of respectable countries (and even then support will come with a flavour of pessimism, see Xusein's stand on the issue).

This is why the Islamic Courts Union consisting of 15 courts(14 moderate, only of one of them having an extremist agenda, but lacking power) was supported by the majority of Somalis because they completely destroyed the warlords that had held the country hostage for over a decade, but then came the illegal Ethiopian invasion and the chance for peace disappeared, resulting in the ascendance of Al-Shabaab. Somalis then supported the latter because it was dislodging a brutal and illegal occupation, the moment they achieved that goal and became draconian and wacky they lost popularity immediately.

Then comes Farmaajo, an educated guy who completely reshuffled the government, allowed other educated individuals to enter his administration, resulting in concrete progress, from reconstruction of multiple institutions and sectors like government facilities, education, economy, military to anti-corruption measures, and providing an important alternative to Al-Shabaab. Without the above, Al-Shabaab wouldn't have been dislodged from Mogadishu, and vast swathes of South and central parts of the country.

It's very strange that any non-Somali person would begrudge a Somali person the right to support the only viable nationalist group that's helping their country stand back on its feet, because prior Transitional governments, and prior "International" campaigns were all about "Terrorism", "corruption" and "containment", with self-fullfilling prophecies galore, and the prolonging of the conflict a common pattern.

Now we have Janub diverting his usual priase to non-muslim African countries, instead to a G-20 country like Turkey (rightfully so), which has decided to put its rescources and weight behind the reconstruction of Somalia, in a positive way, from economics, to construction, to healthcare, to education, to military and suddenly we get all this martyrdom crap from other members.

WTF?
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Old September 29th, 2011, 01:45 PM   #78
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^

+1000
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Old September 29th, 2011, 02:11 PM   #79
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Lailax a.k.a Hasna Doreh iyo Xaawo Taako incarnate, adii sii fiicaan baad karbaashtay dadkaan, geesiyad tahay!
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Old September 29th, 2011, 02:15 PM   #80
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Quote:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...im%20countries


Do Muslims Really Care About Somalia?

If they do, here's how they can save the country from famine.

BY AKBAR AHMED , FRANKIE MARTIN |SEPTEMBER 28, 2011

..........The only head of state or government to have visited Somalia since the famine began is Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. As if to emphasize the need to show support, he brought along his wife and his foreign minister, Ahmet Davutoglu. Erdogan also demonstrated that instability is no excuse for not aiding Somalis; he presided over the reopening of Turkey's Mogadishu embassy after two decades of its being shuttered. Other Muslim leaders, however, are conspicuous by their absence, ignoring the Quranic command to show charity and compassion to the poor and needy.

Erdogan has also put his money where his mouth is. In contrast with Saudi Arabia ($50 million), Kuwait ($41.4 million), and the United Arab Emirates ($40 million through a recent telethon), Turkey has raised $300 million and secured an additional $350 million in pledges from countries of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation. Even traditionally generous countries like the United States have been lukewarm in their assistance (about $130 million). This money, and more, needs to be sent without delay, as the United Nations requires $1 billion for the most immediate needs. With seasonal rains approaching, more funds will be needed as aid groups struggle to fight disease in addition to starvation........
...
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