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Old September 29th, 2011, 03:47 PM   #81
The Nomadic Warrior
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Originally Posted by Janub View Post
I feel like some people are acting stupid purposely. Last I checked, Uganda is not a Muslim nation and I credited them with extending a hand to Somalia in the past (not the armed intervention but the academic cooperation given to students in Somalia). Some of you are picking a fight for no reason at all, even making things up as you go along or totally ignoring huge factors in the scenario.

I am the least of Turkey's fans and I personally don't care for Turkey as a nation and I thought their aid support to the famine plight was about vanity more than anything - but their support for Somalis and their institutions is telling of a genuine relationship.

If you go back to 2009, there was a major conference between all of Somalia's stakeholders. The conference was 10% about mending Somalia's political woes and 90% about reviving Somalia's economy. The Turks helped bridge a contract that brought together Somalia's 5 biggest telecom companies (including ones in Somaliland) to create a conglomerate that would become the largest employer in the nation's entire history. That conference on its own revived the Somali economy and its progress.

In the same way that the ex-colonialists prepared many Africans to study in their master nations in order to benefit and rule the newly-independent nations, Turkey is taking in hundreds of young Somalis to prepare them to return and care for their nation.

What is different about Turkey's approach to Somalia is glaringly obvious. Turkey views Somalia as a nation, not a case. Turkey actually understands that Somalia is of value and its people can be an asset. Turkey's approach to Somalia is social and economic, hardly even political. Turkey will be in Somalia long after the good rains have come and the famine ends. I have good feelings about this.

As I've said before, I'm no fan of Turkey the nation, but the relationship it has built with Somalia the past few years is deserving of the highest praise. I have no idea why the ladies here feel insecure about Turkey's maturity and bravery towards the Somali dilemma. Turkey is in no better position than many African states, like South Africa or Algeria - but it has the ambition and balls to tackle a huge issue - and like Xusein said, Turkey will reap the rewards by grooming the high-potential slumdog.

Iran has also smelt the savory Somali meal to come and is also working behind the scenes to play its own role in the nation's recovery. This is no longer about charity, this is about opportunity, and some people have smelt the meal to come.
Excellent post,

Wallahi, some people are suffering from the green eyed monster and it’s quite clear to see.

That said, it’s great seeing Turkey and Iran’s involvement in Somalia, they are welcomed with open arms.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 03:52 PM   #82
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Green-eyed monster?

Again, everyone is willfully ignoring the elephant in the room. Turkey was MIA for 20 years, they waited until the AU cleaned up the mess then they show up as knights in shining armor. What's so brave about that? They were not at all participating in cleaning up the mess. What exactly do you expect other countries to have done? You expect US or EU companies to go in while dodging bullets? To go in while risking having their employees' corpses dragged in the streets? Peace has to return for that kind of presence to happen. And that's exactly what Turkey did. They let other people do the hard work, then they come in and take credit. That's cowardly and opportunistic, which is why I find it so weird how you are all fawning over them. Plus, you are acting as if Somalis would have openly accepted investments from western countries. Negro please! You would have ranted about how it was done to exploit Somalia and keep it down.
I hope the honeymoon lasts, but reality has a habit of crashing down on people.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 03:57 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by abesha View Post
Green-eyed monster?

Again, everyone is willfully ignoring the elephant in the room. Turkey was MIA for 20 years, they waited until the AU cleaned up the mess then they show up as knights in shining armor. What's so brave about that? They were not at all participating in cleaning up the mess. What exactly do you expect other countries to have done? You expect US or EU companies to go in while dodging bullets? To go in while risking having their employees' corpses dragged in the streets? Peace has to return for that kind of presence to happen. And that's exactly what Turkey did. They let other people do the hard work, then they come in and take credit. That's cowardly and opportunistic, which is why I find it so weird how you are all fawning over them. Plus, you are acting as if Somalis would have openly accepted investments from western countries. Negro please! You would have ranted about how it was done to exploit Somalia and keep it down.
I hope the honeymoon lasts, but reality has a habit of crashing down on people.
rightttttttttttt, and Ethiopia helped Somalia by Invading an killing thousands. You can keep your AU and Whatever.
Turkey is here to stay, as a friend of the Somali people.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 04:03 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by abesha View Post
Green-eyed monster?

Again, everyone is willfully ignoring the elephant in the room. Turkey was MIA for 20 years, they waited until the AU cleaned up the mess then they show up as knights in shining armor. What's so brave about that? They were not at all participating in cleaning up the mess. What exactly do you expect other countries to have done? You expect US or EU companies to go in while dodging bullets? To go in while risking having their employees' corpses dragged in the streets? Peace has to return for that kind of presence to happen. And that's exactly what Turkey did. They let other people do the hard work, then they come in and take credit. That's cowardly and opportunistic, which is why I find it so weird how you are all fawning over them. Plus, you are acting as if Somalis would have openly accepted investments from western countries. Negro please! You would have ranted about how it was done to exploit Somalia and keep it down.
I hope the honeymoon lasts, but reality has a habit of crashing down on people.
Case in point, Wallahi

No need to go any further. Their sheer reek of desperate and attention is obvious of all to see it’s amazing. Jealously and hatred is an unwanted trait for a women so best to rid it from yourself. Like I said and many Somalis posters have indicated; we welcomed and congratulate Iran and Turkey’s involvement in the rebuilding of Somalia, if this somehow affects you and irritates you then you have a character flaw which needs fixing. Pathetic
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Old September 29th, 2011, 04:05 PM   #85
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Jealous of what exactly? Of Turkish investments? We have billions worth of that in Ethiopia already. You make no sense. I just find it so odd so I made a few comments. Note that I'm not the only one who pointed out the inconsistency - every poster other than Somalis did. It's obvious and clear as day that Turkey is getting so much ass-kissing SOLELY because it's a Muslim country. Anyway, this is your issue, not mine.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 04:07 PM   #86
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Exactly? What exactly is there to be jealous of, if Turkey rocks your world fine



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Originally Posted by Constantine MMX View Post
That's pretty much all that should be said. It's amusing to see the red-herrings about "Arabs", and "Muslims", when you clearly mentioned a non-Muslim country like Uganda in your praise. These people come with their biased minds clearly made up, and enter Somali related topics feeling the need to air their own twisted issues with regards to this country and people.

Recap:

- Plenty of great major airline carriers in Africa, yet not a single one is beginning flights to Mogadishu, like Turkish Airlines has announced it will do.

- Several great African countries with fish-industries, yet not a single one has come forward to aid Somalia in the reconstruction of its own fish-industry, but Turkey has.

- Plenty of self-sufficient agricultural countries in Africa, yet not a single one has come forward to aid Somalia in this sector, but Turkey has.

- Plenty of prestigious educational institutions on the continent that could relief the Somali education sector by providing scholarships for a few hundred of the Somali students that can't afford or secure places in fully-booked Somali universities, no African country has made such an admirable decision as Turkey has.

- The Turkish president wasn't in any less danger than any foreign head of state, but he, a president of a G20 country visited Mogadishu with his family, and did not come under the cover of his own troops, unannounced.

- During the Summit on the drought-crisis 50 African countries were M.I.A, this is probably the darkest time for Somalia, yet 50 so-called brother countries didn't even bother to come as a symbol of solidarity, even if they didn't have a penny to spend. Turkey however organised the OIC and made the conference specifically about the crisis, which was a success, since it raised something like $500 million for the crisis.

How many times do you hear of 'African superpower this, African superpower that' on this forum? In the past a peaceful Somalia did plenty of selfless acts that threaten its own existence and standing in the International Community, this can't be compared to hosting refugees on your territory that are funded by the UN. Its pretty disgusting how the latter issue is used as a stick to beat Somalis with and portray them as "ungrateful" people, when we hosted plenty of non-Somalis in the past despite being poor.


Somalia has tons of resources to make it self-sufficient and capable of standing on its own feet, and clearly Turkey got that memo.



You think you got Somalis and Somalia all figured out, eh? Were those 24 Pakistanis mutilated by Aideed's forces not "Muslims"? When were they praised? Weren't they seen as part of an "American-led invasion"? Indeed they were, hence you don't have a clue what your discussing about, other than projecting your usual stereotype of what you think is the "Somali mentality".



There is no consistency or logic to politics unless you live for decades under the rule of a brutal dictator. No self-respecting Somali will support a majoritely draconian or corrupt group like Al-Shabaab or pre-Farmaajo TFG after their track-record of severe screw-ups in achieving long-term stability. A self-respecting Somali however will put his/her weight behind any new group that is making clear tangible progress in the country and seeking to bring it back to the fold of respectable countries (and even then support will come with a flavour of pessimism, see Xusein's stand on the issue).

This is why the Islamic Courts Union consisting of 15 courts(14 moderate, only of one of them having an extremist agenda, but lacking power) was supported by the majority of Somalis because they completely destroyed the warlords that had held the country hostage for over a decade, but then came the illegal Ethiopian invasion and the chance for peace disappeared, resulting in the ascendance of Al-Shabaab. Somalis then supported the latter because it was dislodging a brutal and illegal occupation, the moment they achieved that goal and became draconian and wacky they lost popularity immediately.

Then comes Farmaajo, an educated guy who completely reshuffled the government, allowed other educated individuals to enter his administration, resulting in concrete progress, from reconstruction of multiple institutions and sectors like government facilities, education, economy, military to anti-corruption measures, and providing an important alternative to Al-Shabaab. Without the above, Al-Shabaab wouldn't have been dislodged from Mogadishu, and vast swathes of South and central parts of the country.

It's very strange that any non-Somali person would begrudge a Somali person the right to support the only viable nationalist group that's helping their country stand back on its feet, because prior Transitional governments, and prior "International" campaigns were all about "Terrorism", "corruption" and "containment", with self-fullfilling prophecies galore, and the prolonging of the conflict a common pattern.

Now we have Janub diverting his usual priase to non-muslim African countries, instead to a G-20 country like Turkey (rightfully so), which has decided to put its rescources and weight behind the reconstruction of Somalia, in a positive way, from economics, to construction, to healthcare, to education, to military and suddenly we get all this martyrdom crap from other members.

WTF?
-List these airlines, only Ethiopia, South Africa, and Kenya come to mind
-Which countries?
-Um where? Education institutions in many nations are in disrepair.
-Okay, didn't know that was a requirement. But I will pass the memo on to GEJ
- its bad, but I doubt solidarity will feed people. I rather they send funds from their home than meet spend money and pass one useless resolution.

But when exactly did Somalia help others during peace time

Like I said congratulations on your marriage
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Old September 29th, 2011, 04:09 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by The Nomadic Warrior View Post
Case in point, Wallahi

No need to go any further. Their sheer reek of desperate and attention is obvious of all to see it’s amazing. Jealously and hatred is an unwanted trait for a women so best to rid it from yourself. Like I said and many Somalis posters have indicated; we welcomed and congratulate Iran and Turkey’s involvement in the rebuilding of Somalia, if this somehow affects you and irritates you then you have a character flaw which needs fixing. Pathetic
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Old September 29th, 2011, 04:15 PM   #88
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Jealous of what exactly? Of Turkish investments? We have billions worth of that in Ethiopia already. You make no sense. I just find it so odd so I made a few comments. Note that I'm not the only one who pointed out the inconsistency - every poster other than Somalis did. It's obvious and clear as day that Turkey is getting so much ass-kissing SOLELY because it's a Muslim country. Anyway, this is your issue, not mine.
With each post it becomes clearer that you are definitely jealous of that praise Iran and Turkey are getting. Personally, I don’t know why. It’s weird to say the least. They do not receive praise because they are Muslims. They receive it because their involvement has brought about positive change in Somalia and brought some real intangibles changes within Somalia. They offer more to Somalia than most other African countries and they are most welcomed in Somalia with open arms than backstabbing African nations who don’t have the best interest of Somalia at heart.

Africans really need to learn to deal with jealously better, it kills you inside
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Old September 29th, 2011, 04:16 PM   #89
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wow I swear....hating on Turkey : words cannot describe my s
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Old September 29th, 2011, 04:18 PM   #90
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Why are people ignoring facts and just jumping around ignorantly?
Turkey has had a role for years. This has not started recently and yet somehow here comes the 'we are ignoring other African roles in favour of Muslim roles'
Pakistanis as highlighted previously weren't welcomed despite being Muslim and yet Uganda was praised despite it not being Muslim

The last country in the world that will be getting a thank you imo, is Ethiopia after the shit they have done. So why it bothers them whether we invite Iran, Turkey or the goddamn population of China into our country is beyond me
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Old September 29th, 2011, 04:20 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Arinze View Post

Exactly? What exactly is there to be jealous of, if Turkey rocks your world fine





-List these airlines, only Ethiopia, South Africa, and Kenya come to mind
-Which countries?
-Um where? Education institutions in many nations are in disrepair.
-Okay, didn't know that was a requirement. But I will pass the memo on to GEJ
- its bad, but I doubt solidarity will feed people. I rather they send funds from their home than meet spend money and pass one useless resolution.

But when exactly did Somalia help others during peace time

Like I said congratulations on your marriage
The end of the world is near, when we have a Nigerian Female Igbo talking about Somali politics and it’s redevelopment. You don’t know anything about the Somali people, culture, history or current politics as evident in majority of your post. Instead of joining the conservation for the “sake of joining the conversation” its best you keep your mouth shut. As the saying goes “"Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt".

You don’t see many Somalis engaging in debates about Nigerian politics do you? You are always the Elephant in the room,
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Old September 29th, 2011, 04:21 PM   #92
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wow I swear....hating on Turkey : words cannot describe my s
LOL - wow, Turkey sure is amazing. They have transformed Somalia in the past 6 weeks!!

If Turkey had a role for years, how come the ass-kissing started weeks ago?
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Old September 29th, 2011, 04:22 PM   #93
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Wow slow your roll you bitter loser, I made a comment and asked Constantine questions because he actually is more rational than you can ever hope to be. If I don't know things I ask, so if that pains you go jump in a lake and spare me. What did anything I said made any reference to the Somali people? The questions were about the situation of other African nations, in response to Somalia and they say European education passes American?

If you want you can no one is stopping you, I believe that outsiders can give different take on things

Wow a fat joke too bad it wasn't my picture

Coming from the guy who hasn't gone back in decades
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Old September 29th, 2011, 04:24 PM   #94
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Ming boggling responses really

I didn’t name names when I discussed those who suffered from immense jealously. Yet some posters were incensed by it and thought it was an attack on them and responded in a vile manner, thus indicating they were the jealous ones.

Africans,
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Old September 29th, 2011, 04:27 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Arinze View Post
Wow slow your roll you bitter loser, I made a comment and asked Constantine questions because he actually is more rational than you can ever hope to be. If I don't know things I ask, so if that pains you go jump in a lake and spare me.
Sure it was harsh but he has a point.
When do you see us Somalis talking about Nigerian politics? We don't. Because we know we do not understand the culture or the politics in that country.

So I do find it amusing Non Somalis coming into this thread making statements and pretending they know the slightest thing about it. Being neighbours to Somalia does not also equal understanding it.

And furthermore, why does it matter to those who are not Somali who we welcome as friends or not? No one more than Somalis know the damage that has happened to the land so if we see a country making noticeable difference without invading it. We are well within our rights to praise them and anyone who has a problem with it can deal with it themselves.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 04:27 PM   #96
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Oh go die Nomadic Warrior, you act though you are doing anything personally another armchair specialist

I never said Turkey was bad
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Old September 29th, 2011, 04:40 PM   #97
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Listen, I’m not going to waste my precious valuable time with two internet addicts, who flame to get their sadistic hit. I have much better things to do with my times.

However, all I wanted to say was that Janub and Constantine MMX hit the nail on the head in this thread and their posts echoed the sentiments of the Somali people. But unfortunately, this thread was derailed by jealously and weirdly misplaced hatred by others which disappointing. But this is commonly found on these forums and especially from highly active posters. That said, yet again, I personally welcome Iran and Turkey’s involvement in Somalia and their path to development is certainly an example Somalia can follow since they share many similarities

There is no more to add than this, the end
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Old September 29th, 2011, 04:43 PM   #98
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This discussion is frankly pointless. Just read post #38 and get back at me.

I don't expect or even care if regional African countries do anything in Somalia. I am just saying that Turkey's approach to the situation will be the winning strategy.
thanks

that explains alot

I know lots of Somalis with opposite opinion as yours and it's interesting to see the diversity of opinions among your diaspora. If I didn't know them I would say have at it and disassociate yourselves from anything not MENA. It's a topic too hairy to be that cut and dry though.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 04:53 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by abesha View Post
Again, everyone is willfully ignoring the elephant in the room. Turkey was MIA for 20 years, they waited until the AU cleaned up the mess then they show up as knights in shining armor. What's so brave about that? They were not at all participating in cleaning up the mess.
Turkey was there as a part of a UN peace keeping force before the AU, it was later on that peace keeping was handed over the AU. Not to mention that Turkey is also part of the NATO force providing security in the Indian Ocean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abesha View Post
What exactly do you expect other countries to have done? You expect US or EU companies to go in while dodging bullets? To go in while risking having their employees' corpses dragged in the streets? Peace has to return for that kind of presence to happen.And that's exactly what Turkey did. They let other people do the hard work, then they come in and take credit. That's cowardly and opportunistic, which is why I find it so weird how you are all fawning over them.
contradiction much? I don't see any US or EU companies ready to invest in Somalia do you? Meanwhile Turkish companies are ready to do business in Somalia, as usual American and EU companies will wait to see how they do and then jump in if the Turkish companies become sucessfull. the same thing happened in N.Iraq, the same thing happened in Central Asia, the same thing will happen in Somalia.

Work in Somalia is far from over, and if more countries took an approach like we are doing towards Somalia then they would be able to recover much more easily. You are just crying sour grapes and it seams like you don't want them to develope and become a normal country again, otherwise you would not be bashing a country for trying to create working relations with Somalia on an equal basis.

If it was a strole in the park, if it was still not a high risk endeavour then Western companies would have already jumped on the band wagon, yet, where are they?
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Old September 29th, 2011, 04:56 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by The Nomadic Warrior View Post
With each post it becomes clearer that you are definitely jealous of that praise Iran and Turkey are getting. Personally, I don’t know why. It’s weird to say the least. They do not receive praise because they are Muslims. They receive it because their involvement has brought about positive change in Somalia and brought some real intangibles changes within Somalia. They offer more to Somalia than most other African countries and they are most welcomed in Somalia with open arms than backstabbing African nations who don’t have the best interest of Somalia at heart.

Africans really need to learn to deal with jealously better, it kills you inside


this is the funniest post in this thread

lol I swear the appreciative and African-friendly Somalis in the diaspora are the only saving grace for these people.
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