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Old February 11th, 2015, 03:38 PM   #261
ddes
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Wouldn't the argument against your option for the Downtown Line be the same as the one under construction. In either case, the Bukit Timah sector would still be "underused".

I think that you choosing to ignore that the population of the Choa Chu Kang-Bukit Panjang conurbation is quite sizable, is unwise. Jurong isn't the only place in Singapore that's crowded - the scene is the same everywhere, even in Pasir Ris. I'll have to reserve judgement, but for now, the Jurong Region Line is better than your DTL2 as it addresses the multiple commuting patterns present and future in the region. Plus, one cannot forget about the CRL and the CCL6, which will essentially provide the west with a third parallel line into the CBD.
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Old February 11th, 2015, 03:51 PM   #262
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Actually, rather than keep adding more buses, building more MRT line and expanding roads, the government can consider having LRT networks in every HDB town.

In a network, we can have multiple lines.

Although the cost of developing LRT is very much higher than the cost of developing bus networks, the costs of operating it in the long term should be lower for LRT as compared to bus. One reason is because LRT does not consume fuel; it consumes electricity, which can be solar powered.

Meanwhile, if we keep adding buses, more fuel is required and infrastructure has to be consistently expanded. The costs of adding buses and consistently expanding infrastructure may be higher than the costs of developing LRT systems.

To the end users, LRT offers connection to MRT station and within the town without being affected by road traffic conditions or traffic lights. As compared to buses, LRT provides a more reliable transport intra-town and to MRT station.

With a more reliable public transport, this would encourage more people to opt for public transport, instead of private transport.

It may be argued that the loading expected may exceed the capacity of LRT. Well, to solve that, what we can do is to connect the LRT in HDB towns to multiple MRT stations, so the load is spread out and within the capacity the LRT can handle.

If our economy is able to generate large amounts of surplus consistently every year, I feel that the government should invest in developing LRT in every HDB town.

It may bring about savings in long run, among other benefits, such as better air quality, quieter environment, more efficient transport, etc.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 12:15 AM   #263
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There is another line planned for Tengah, the Holland Line.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 04:45 AM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pioneerboy View Post
Actually, rather than keep adding more buses, building more MRT line and expanding roads, the government can consider having LRT networks in every HDB town.

In a network, we can have multiple lines.

Although the cost of developing LRT is very much higher than the cost of developing bus networks, the costs of operating it in the long term should be lower for LRT as compared to bus. One reason is because LRT does not consume fuel; it consumes electricity, which can be solar powered.

Meanwhile, if we keep adding buses, more fuel is required and infrastructure has to be consistently expanded. The costs of adding buses and consistently expanding infrastructure may be higher than the costs of developing LRT systems.

To the end users, LRT offers connection to MRT station and within the town without being affected by road traffic conditions or traffic lights. As compared to buses, LRT provides a more reliable transport intra-town and to MRT station.

With a more reliable public transport, this would encourage more people to opt for public transport, instead of private transport.

It may be argued that the loading expected may exceed the capacity of LRT. Well, to solve that, what we can do is to connect the LRT in HDB towns to multiple MRT stations, so the load is spread out and within the capacity the LRT can handle.

If our economy is able to generate large amounts of surplus consistently every year, I feel that the government should invest in developing LRT in every HDB town.

It may bring about savings in long run, among other benefits, such as better air quality, quieter environment, more efficient transport, etc.
But LRTs are expensive to build, and can be difficult to integrate into existing towns (what happened to Bukit Panjang)

I think there's an argument for trams here, seeing as they offer pretty much the same benefits... But that would have to go to the trams thread.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 03:39 PM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luacstjh98 View Post
But LRTs are expensive to build, and can be difficult to integrate into existing towns (what happened to Bukit Panjang)

I think there's an argument for trams here, seeing as they offer pretty much the same benefits... But that would have to go to the trams thread.
Maybe LTA can pioneer something new; something of LRT but with the efficiency of MRT and easiness of a Bus
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Old February 12th, 2015, 05:31 PM   #266
ddes
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Our LRT was something of a revolutionary system, which was essentially to take airport people mover systems designed as a simple shuttle, into a circuit route, and unfortunately, it took 3 systems for them to realize that it wasn't going to change the world. To be fair, the only other proven light rail systems at the time were trams, and the recent advancements in light rail didn't happen until more recently, which didn't give LTA any viable options.

While the concept of intra town LRTs is a nice one, and today, there are more cost effective light rail solutions available, all of it relies on the main line's ability to absorb the capacity in the first place, something we know that our main lines are unable to handle. Hence, priority should be given to developing more arterial lines to increase rail density than taxing the existing rail network.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 06:26 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2koh View Post
There is another line planned for Tengah, the Holland Line.
That may only be up after 2030? This is looking at how their schedule till 2030 is packed with CCL6, JRL and CRL. In fact, given the massive scale of CRL, it is probable that we are looking at 2035 onwards.

The CCL6 and CRL station provisions, if any, will probably hint at the alignment of the Holland Line (or even the Seletar Line) or where these 2 lines are going to go into the CBD.
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Old February 13th, 2015, 06:22 AM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raxip View Post
That may only be up after 2030? This is looking at how their schedule till 2030 is packed with CCL6, JRL and CRL. In fact, given the massive scale of CRL, it is probable that we are looking at 2035 onwards.

The CCL6 and CRL station provisions, if any, will probably hint at the alignment of the Holland Line (or even the Seletar Line) or where these 2 lines are going to go into the CBD.
At the same time, we should not be seeing Tengah becoming well-populated (like Punggol now) until 2035, especially when HDB is tapering the building program. The first HDB developments in Punggol started in 1996 and it took 15 years to become sufficiently populated. With the first BTOs in Tengah completing probably after 2020, 2030-35 is a reasonable deadline for the new line.
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Old February 13th, 2015, 05:23 PM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2koh View Post
At the same time, we should not be seeing Tengah becoming well-populated (like Punggol now) until 2035, especially when HDB is tapering the building program. The first HDB developments in Punggol started in 1996 and it took 15 years to become sufficiently populated. With the first BTOs in Tengah completing probably after 2020, 2030-35 is a reasonable deadline for the new line.
Just to clarify,the Tengah area you spoke of is the area beside brickland road ,Bukit Batok Road and the expressways; PIE and KJE.

Cause I have always thought of the area around Lim Chu kang as the "De-Facto" Tengah Area.
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Old February 14th, 2015, 10:42 AM   #270
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Tengah New Town... I think everyone knows that, except those that have not been in civilisation for the last 2 years.
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Old March 15th, 2015, 02:04 PM   #271
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Went to analyse the concept plan 2013 map again... and compared it with the standard map on OneMap.sg...


For the Tengah-West Coast section, it seems that the line will run along East West Line at Jurong East.




For the Choa Chu Kang-Boon Lay section, I have a feeling that the line may go over the plots of land where the former BoonLay/JurongVille/Yuhua Secondary School was and where the former BoonLayPrimary/GraceOrchidSchool was, as well as some unused field in a HDB estate.







The alignment towards Choa Chu Kang may be this:


For the Jurong Industrial Estate section, the line may turn before Jurong SAFRA building, and turn again at Jalan Boon Lay.


For the NTU-Boon Lay section, the line may be a segment on its own, thus the alignment may be this:


Meanwhile, for the Jurong Industrial Estate section, I have a feeling that the line may merge with the Tuas segment of Cross Island Line, while it also has a branch line (covering proposed JIE segment of CRL) towards West Coast:


Overall, the the final network could be this:


1. Cross Island Line from Eastern part of Singapore to Tengah, via West Coast and Jurong East.
2. North-West Line from Choa Chu Kang to Tuas, via Boon Lay.
3. North-West Line branch line from Jurong Hill area to West Coast.
4. 2-West Line (named after 2West development) from NTU to Boon Lay, with its own possible branches (or LRT lines) in future.

Whereas for the stations and names, this is how I think it would be, for the current-known alignment of JRL:

every station at least 1 km straight-lined distance apart.
around seventeen stations, with three interchanges (CCK, BL, JE).

Last edited by pioneerboy; March 16th, 2015 at 06:29 AM.
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Old March 18th, 2015, 06:25 AM   #272
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Thumbs up, very informative.
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