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Old April 29th, 2008, 12:49 PM   #1
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South African Politics

Right Contentious topic but very relevant in Today's SA
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Old April 29th, 2008, 12:55 PM   #2
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Ok so here goes, I found this very intresting article and Im not supported of JZ but I have seen Mandela come and go (oh my god a black president it must be the end of the world and we have to emigrate) to 2 terms of TB( Oh my god an educated black man and we gotta emigrate despite record growth and a slow reduction on crime) and now JZ is coming and again i hear(oh my god an uneducated black militant left wing communist rapist corrupt cronnie we gota emigrate).
Despite this I think lets give him a go and se what he is made of as he obvioulsy has some balls to call the situation in Zim like it was which neither TB or Madiba did and despite that he is left leaning and will bring social change by spending big of housing, roads, schools etc so rewad the article and tell me what you think
Zuma 'turns tide of international opinion'
Peter Fabricius
April 29 2008 at 09:09AM

ANC president Jacob Zuma apparently had a successful tour of Germany, Britain and France last week.

"He turned the tide of opinion among investors and politicians," according to a diplomat who followed the tour, reassuring them that he could be an acceptable national president.

Zuma and his aides said the right things on a number of issues of concern to his hosts, including conveying an acceptable level of conservatism on economic policy, and promising to get tough on crime, Eskom and Zimbabwe.

The last was reportedly the most reassuring part of his message and attracted the most attention.

'He turned the tide of opinion among investors and politicians'
In Berlin, on the first leg of the tour, Zuma set the tone by distancing himself from President Thabo Mbeki's quiet Zimbabwe diplomacy, and said the long delay in releasing the presidential electoral results was "not acceptable", and that "the leaders in Africa should really move in to unlock this logjam".

Before meeting British Prime Minister Gordon Brown on Thursday, Zuma appeared to change tack, endorsing Mbeki's approach and implicitly criticising Brown's "loud" diplomacy by saying simply swearing at President Robert Mugabe would not solve the crisis.







He opposed Western demands for an arms embargo against Zimbabwe.

A day later he praised Durban dock workers for refusing to unload a consignment of Chinese arms destined for Zimbabwe.

In a joint statement with Brown, Zuma contradicted Mbeki by declaring that there was an electoral crisis, and called for the early release of election results, and an end to the violence which Mugabe's militias have unleashed on the opposition MDC supporters.

'He was much tougher on Zimbabwe in private meetings'
Television pictures of Zuma shaking hands with Mugabe's British arch-enemy, and saying there is an electoral crisis, contrasted tellingly with the now infamous picture of Mbeki holding hands with Mugabe two weeks ago and saying there was no crisis.

In Paris, Zuma responded to a Zimbabwe police raid on MDC headquarters by saying it looked like "somebody is sabotaging the elections" there and making the country look like a "police state".

The wobble in the middle of his trip, where he defended Mbeki, raised some old concerns about Zuma's tendency to send different messages to different people. But the diplomat following his tour dismissed this as a mere response to concerns expressed in Pretoria about his tough words in Berlin.

"There is no doubt where he stands. He was much tougher on Zimbabwe in private meetings than in his public statements."

Most intriguingly, Zuma revealed his plans to create a separate and tougher initiative on Zimbabwe within the Southern African Development Community (Sadc) from Mbeki's mediation.

That would entail strengthening the hands of Mugabe's opponents within Sadc, such as Zambia's President Levy Mwanawasa and Botswana's Ian Khama, against his old allies like Angolan Jose Eduardo dos Santos and Namibia's Hifikepunye Pohamba.

The evidence for these moves has already emerged in the refusal of the Sadc maritime states to accept a consignment of Chinese arms destined for Zimbabwe.

Ironically, though, in the controversial so-called special Browse Mole Report put out last year by South African intelligence agents, Zuma was named as Angola's preferred candidate in the rivalry for the ANC presidency.

That report, though dismissed by Mbeki's people as disinformation, is widely believed to contain considerable truth and correctly reflected the chilly relations between Mbeki's administration and that of Dos Santos.

If the report is true, it raises intriguing questions, among them: Has Zuma, preparing himself for greater responsibility as the South African president, decided to ditch Dos Santos in his effort to put down Mugabe? Or is he using his good relations with Dos Santos to turn him against Mugabe, on the grounds that the latter is now an old rogue elephant who must be discarded
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Old April 29th, 2008, 01:39 PM   #3
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I agree SA, lets give him a chance like we did with others. I hope that he is not gonna turn like Bush and bring the country into recession. He was the MEC of finance in KZN, may be he will use the experience he gained there.
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Old April 29th, 2008, 04:34 PM   #4
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I personally think that he is going to be the best president in South Africa yet (*waits for glass to fly*) but I guess all anyone can do is wait and see. If he gets out of hand, the NPA can initiate proceedings against him even when he is the president, no?
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Old April 29th, 2008, 06:57 PM   #5
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well, at least he is not going to tell us there is "no crisis in Zimbabwe", that "crime is under control", "that HIV does not cause AIDS". I am willing to take a man with his personal faults as long as he does not throw SA into a tailspin like Mbeki has done at a time when we need leadership and re-assurance.
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Old April 29th, 2008, 08:04 PM   #6
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It's not Zuma that worries me necessarily, but rather the people who come with him.....there is alot of uncertainty of people...Howerver the same could have been said about Manule and others when they came in and they certainly stepped up to the mark (generally).
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Old April 29th, 2008, 08:27 PM   #7
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spending time wooing investors and foreigners overseas en route to becoming president is a good thing. admitting that zim has a crisis is a good thing. he just has to play the right cards and say the right things.
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Old April 30th, 2008, 01:17 AM   #8
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I have my doubts but I won't pass any judgement until he has been President for at least 2 years. His track record thus far isn't that great and he might acknowledge that AIDS exists but believes that a shower will fix that . Here is some food for thought:

Idi Amin was seen as a Saviour and the International community loved the man - they kissed his hands and hung onto every word that he said. Robert Mugabe was declared an African hero shortly after his Presidency began.

In a nutshell, I am very suspicious of the man.
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Old April 30th, 2008, 03:05 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYDNEY View Post
I have my doubts but I won't pass any judgement until he has been President for at least 2 years. His track record thus far isn't that great and he might acknowledge that AIDS exists but believes that a shower will fix that . Here is some food for thought:

Idi Amin was seen as a Saviour and the International community loved the man - they kissed his hands and hung onto every word that he said. Robert Mugabe was declared an African hero shortly after his Presidency began.

In a nutshell, I am very suspicious of the man.
There have always been doubts about Mbeki and Tata Mandela and they did good, so it wouldn't be fair to just point out those too and compare them with Zuma.

I agree with KomSakkie that the worry isn't Zuma as such but brainless people like the former ANCYL President Fikile Mbalula. The good thing about all these is that the ANC's constitution has also been changed to have the party's President running for only 2 terms.

Zuma should just leave the likes of Trevor Manuel and Tito Mboweni in their positions.
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Old April 30th, 2008, 04:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pule View Post
There have always been doubts about Mbeki and Tata Mandela and they did good, so it wouldn't be fair to just point out those too and compare them with Zuma.

I agree with KomSakkie that the worry isn't Zuma as such but brainless people like the former ANCYL President Fikile Mbalula. The good thing about all these is that the ANC's constitution has also been changed to have the party's President running for only 2 terms.

Zuma should just leave the likes of Trevor Manuel and Tito Mboweni in their positions.
In my books Mbeki is as useful as a one-legged man at an arse kicking Mandela was fannytastic !
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Old April 30th, 2008, 04:47 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYDNEY View Post
In my books Mbeki is as useful as a one-legged man at an arse kicking Mandela was fannytastic !
He might have had his faults like any other leader but he is a good leader after all. He is an economist and most of his strategies works well.
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Old April 30th, 2008, 04:50 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pule View Post
He might have had his faults like any other leader but he is a good leader after all. He is an economist and most of his strategies works well.
Okay Pule .. let's agree to disagree. You like the man, I can't stand him Each to their own
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Old April 30th, 2008, 05:52 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYDNEY View Post
Okay Pule .. let's agree to disagree. You like the man, I can't stand him Each to their own
Ok Syd, not a problem buddy.
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Old April 30th, 2008, 08:18 AM   #14
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Ive also had many doubts after Polokwane, but JZ is playing his cards right with the majority, & thats a good thing & can also be a bad thing. We've all heard the false promises before an election, whether or not he'll live up to it is another story, but as I said before, when he is elected president next year, I dont think there is a need to scare & flee the country. That will be down right stupid. He will do his job because in the first 2 years he will have the whole world watching his every step.
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Old April 30th, 2008, 08:30 AM   #15
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I would give TB an over all rating of 6.5/10 and if you brake it into sectors I would give economy and strategic planning (debt payments almost complete, international credit ratings up, Massive public spending on infra etc) 8.5/10.
Foreign Policy 3/10

I really dont know that much about JZ except for his faux paus so I also reserve judgement but I think it might be mre of the same (party politics first everything else second). I do beliv the generation after JZ will be the one to really do SA proud as they would typically not have been exiles or Political prisoners, would be well educated and generally be capitalist as apposed to communist
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Old April 30th, 2008, 08:44 AM   #16
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I do tend to agree with SA Boy, I think TB has done a decent job in certain areas, but in others a very very poor job.

I am unsure if it will be the next generation after JZ, I think we're looking at maybe 2 or 3 before we start to get "decent" politicians running this country.
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Old April 30th, 2008, 09:19 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SA BOY View Post
Foreign Policy 3/10
I am not Mbeki's biggest fan however I think his screw up over Zim isnt the only thing he has done - we need to consider his achievements, especially in light of SA's situation pre-1994.

Under him SA has contributed positively throughout Africa in many crises and I would say that SA is overwelmingly seen as a benign leader throughout the continent, not just in our traditional stamping ground of the SADC. He has opened up the continent for SA business, sent peacekeepers, but yet without embroiling us in any real wars. I would give him a 6 actually. Without Zim, a 9. IMO Zim itself isnt serious enough to give a -3, but I score this as his inaction has damaged the hard-won prestige of the nation. Strong action (and I dont mean invasion! ) a few years ago would have given SA immense credibility as a regional power deserving of international respect.

I dont expect SA's leaders to get everything right first time, I just wish they would find it easier to just admit their mistakes earlier and change policy rather than bludgeon on doing the wrong thing for years for face-saving. I was VERY suprised that they admitted culpability over the electricity debacle - a pleasing change in heart.
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Old April 30th, 2008, 08:24 PM   #18
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I believe that this country has been stagnating recently and it is in part due to spineless leadership. Mbeki is a puppet and has no backbone. He is scared to take big decisions and thats why this country, perhaps on the threshold of first world status some years ago, has stagnated. We have too much inequality and not enough constructive decisions being made to rectify it. This is why I also agree that Jacob Zuma deserves a chance. Yeah we all know that his track record isn't great but he's never really been in a position of leadership so how can we judge him before we see what he can do. It looks like JZ, unlike TM, does have a backbone and we need someone with a backbone, who can make big decisions to get this country moving forward again.
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Old May 10th, 2008, 09:19 PM   #19
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Very recent interview(May 9th) with Thabo Mbeki from AlJazeeraEnglish:

Interview with Thabo Mbeki

Al Jazeera's Sami Zeidan meets the South African president who discusses the ongoing electoral deadlock in Zimbabwe and closing the wealth gap in South Africa.



Part 2:

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Old May 11th, 2008, 12:39 PM   #20
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Zille shortlisted as best mayor in the world
BRONWYNNE JOOSTE
11 May, 2008
Cape Argus

An anonymous supporter has thrown Cape Town Mayor Helen Zille's hat into the ring for the world's best mayor award and she has been shortlisted
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