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St John's Shopping Centre | City Centre | 360,000 sq. ft. Retail Space/Market

292K views 2K replies 187 participants last post by  Howie_P 
#1 · (Edited)
The news is quite old, but seen as I have saw nothing of it posted, I thought I would bring it up.

St Johns market will be rebuilt

Aug 15 2006

ST JOHNS shopping centre in Liverpool is to be completely rebuilt as part of a plan by its owner to compete with Grosvenor's Liverpool One scheme.

Landlord Land Securities will be investing tens of millions of pounds in the complete overhaul of the centre from 2009 onwards. The company will also spend £5m on its nearby Clayton Square shops.

The news about the major revamp for St Johns has been revealed in a podcast interview that can be heard in full at the Daily Post's business website, thebusinessweek.co.uk.

In the interview, Clayton Square centre manager Ed Oliver, who is also vice chairman of Liverpool Chamber of Commerce, said the investment by Land Securities was in response to growing competition from the development of Liverpool One, the arrival in town of Primark and the refurbishment of Marks & Spencer on Church Street.

Mr Oliver added: "There is a long-term plan for St Johns, a five-year project starting in 2009. It's such a large project that we could not start it now and finish it in time for Capital of Culture, so the view is to start it after Capital of Culture in 2009.

"It's virtually the complete rebuilding of St Johns".

"It's a massive investment by Land Securities."

Mr Oliver said the city's existing retailers and shopping centres could not afford to be complacent. He added: "We are going to have 1m sq ft of retail and leisure space open just 300 yards away. We cannot sit back."

Speaking about Clayton Square, Mr Oliver said: "Plans are being drawn up to bring it into the 21st century. It was opened in 1989 and the centre still has a dated look about it.

"There will be new entrances, floor decorations and lights. There will be some extension of space."

The cost could be in the region of £5m.

In the podcast interview, Mr Oliver said that late-night shopping in Liverpool city centre had got off to a slow start.

Late-night shopping was re-introduced to the city two weeks ago. Mr Oliver said August was bound to be a slow month, but he was confident the number of late-night shoppers would rise steadily and that city centre shops will eventually stay open until 8pm five days a week.

Mr Oliver also used the interview to claim success for Liverpool's Business Improvement District initiative.

He said it was one of the best BID areas in Britain.

Liverpool Vision chief executive Jim Gill said the plan to redevelop St Johns was great news for the city centre.

There had been fears that the new shops at Liverpool One would have shifted the city's retail centre of gravity away from Clayton Square and St Johns towards the river.

Mr Gill added: "It's very positive news.

"It shows there is still a future for that part of the retail market that their tenants serve.

"Land Securities will improve the centre's facade as it looks towards Lime Street station.

"What we will have is a retail core that is double the size now."

Mr Gill said pedestrian access to St Johns from Lime Street would be improved.

He said the remaining unresolved big issue for retail in Liverpool now was the future of the John Lewis building on Church Street.

It will become necessary to find new tenants after the store group moves to a huge new department store in Liverpool One in two year's time.

Mr Gill said: "The redevelopment of Marks & Spencer with the developments at Clayton Square and St Johns means the prospects for theJohn Lewis shops are much better."
2009 :eek:hno:

But its about time something happens!!! and Maybe, just maybe, the Holiday Inn might be accidently demolished during the process :)
 
#114 ·
If they are going to spend a £100m on it it makes more sense to me to knock the whole thing down and start again, reinstituting roads and public spaces. Architecturally, the part of this development fronting Lime Street/St Georges Place/Queens Square needs to be the best part. Glass frontage for this area is a bit lame. And then there's the Holiday Inn - any redevelopment that leaves that in situ will like having a face-lift but forgetting to remove a conspicuous mole.
 
#115 ·
If they are going to spend a £100m on it it makes more sense to me to knock the whole thing down and start again, reinstituting roads and public spaces.
There's no doubt about it, removing St. John's (excluding the beacon), and re-instating an intergrated street pattern, a la Liverpool One would be the most beneficial thing to do with the site. The problem is £100m simply wouldn't cover it. The demolition of such a vast building would likely run into millions of pounds, then there's preparing the site, with new utilities etc, not the to mention the cost of designing new buildings. There is of course the issue of the current tenants too. Many stores have long leases that would have to be bought out. The market traders would likely have to be compensated, and this is before we get to the loss of income from rents which would likely run into millions over the course of the re-build. I try not to get too hung up about the lack of a demolition/re-build, because unless someone has several hundred million more going spare, it just isn't going to happen.

Architecturally, the part of this development fronting Lime Street/St Georges Place/Queens Square needs to be the best part. Glass frontage for this area is a bit lame.
It's difficult. Design something a little restrained given the area it's in, and it's lame and uninspiring. Design something with a little more interest, and it's too much for the area. Personally I think it's a no win situation, and perhaps a plain, but modern glass frontage as proposed is perhaps not a bad move.

And then there's the Holiday Inn - any redevelopment that leaves that in situ will like having a face-lift but forgetting to remove a conspicuous mole.
I'd like to see the Holiday Inn move out - to the Chieftain development maybe - and the Holiday Inn block removed from the roof. I think that would have a positive effect on the whole area.
 
#117 ·
I feel a bit like that, but as it is not going to happen I'm happy with what is being planned 9apart from teh Holiday Inn staying). The public realm improvements around the centre are impressive, particularly the changes to the killer Elliot St steps and the minging ramp. I also like the Queens Square side which takes the form of the Royal Court curve.
 
#118 ·
I don't disagree with the sentiment Babs, and I appreciate that this re-development will mean that we will be stuck with this giant roadblock for at least another 20 years. However, seen as no-one has come along with the money to fund a knock down/re-build, we have the choice of leaving the centre as it is, to deteriorate further for an indeterminable amount of time until someone does come along with the cash. Or else we accept this scheme (which isn't at all bad) and have delivered a much better centre.

To be honest, I'm quite hopeful. It seems very comprehensive, addresses several of the centres current issues, and will hopefully make St. John's a nice place to shop. Something it hasn't been for a very long time.
 
#119 ·
From Property Week -

LandSecs gets go ahead for Liverpool shops extension

10:13 | 11.06.08

By Laura Chesters

Liverpool City Council has given the go ahead for Land Securities redevelopment of the St John’s Centre in Liverpool.

LandSecs, which built the centre in 1969, plans to extend the centre from 360,600 sq ft to 479,000 sq ft.

The new designs include a double-height covered street in the scheme and the entire mall will be refurbished to include new facilities, lighting and access, with the food area in the centre relocated to a new catering area on the first-floor overlooking Clayton Square.

Market relocation

The historic St John’s Market within the centre will also be relocated to a purpose built Market Hall situated at Williamson Square.

It is anticipated that work will begin in early 2009 and the new scheme will be completed in spring 2013.
http://www.propertyweek.com/story.asp?sectioncode=297&storycode=3115557&c=1

It looks like the schedule has slipped by a few months with an on-site date of early next year now.
 
#120 ·
Different articles have different dates. I'd be inclined to go with the dates within the planning report, which said autumn 2008. Maybe that's just wishful thinking though.

St John's development, the screen, Concourse House, the ABC, the TGWU extension. Should be a busy 2009 for the Lime St area (hopefully extending to including Central Station, Lewis's and the Watson building).

I just wish they'd bloody hurry up as that side of town really looks terrible now Liverpool One is showing it up.
 
#121 ·
^^

Agreed. It looks like that side of town will finally get some much needed attention. It's just a shame the part of Lime Street between the station and the Adelphi couldn't see a bit of work. I'm not sure what the Futurist side of the street could lend itself too, but the opposite side I'd like to see incorporated into a full re-development of the Blacklers site. I think a large retail unit (probably a department store), with entrances onto Lime Street would really compliment the re-development of St. John's, providing a balance to Liverpool One at the other side of the retail core.
 
#122 ·
St Johns

St Johns shopping centre rennovation

Background


St Johns Shopping Centre is situated in the central district of Liverpool and best known for its affordable shopping and the iconic St Johns Beacon, the home of Radio City. Land Securities built St Johns in 1969.

The Centre has over 100 retailers including Wilkinson, Argos, JD Sports, New Look and Woolworths and is home to the St Johns Retail Market, established by Charter granted by King John in 1207. St Johns benefits from a 481 seat food court with five leading food outlets and a 625 space multi-level car park.

The last major refurbishment of the Centre was completed in 1989. At that time, entrances were redesigned, new escalators and lifts were added linking car parking to the shopping mall, and a food court was introduced. In 1999 the Williamson Square building, which currently houses the Liverpool FC, New Look and Iceland shops, was added.



The new proposal


Improvements to St Johns Centre:

  • 21st Century Market Facility
  • Creation of new double-height retail mall
  • Comprehensive mall refurbishment including new flooring, lighting and toilet facilities
  • Creation of a new Food Terrace, giving shoppers a place to meet and relax
  • The introduction of natural light into the Centre through new atrium spaces
  • New glazed retail fronts to all streets
  • New entrances and way finding to improve access into the Centre
  • Introduction of art into the Centre
  • Comprehensive improvements to public space surrounding the Centre including new street furniture
  • The integration of Elliott Street, Parker Street and Houghton Street into the BigDig works (in partnership with LiverpoolCity Centre)

Planning permission granted: 10/06/08
Work begun on large external wrap and screen
First phase begins summer 2009


New layout (more maps available at www.everydayforeverybody.com)








 
#125 ·
I agree Gareth. I was skeptical at first, but looking at the plans and the model I think a lot more thought has gone into the redesign that it first seemed. I'm not even convinced that we'd gain enough to undergo the sort of wholesale demolition required to pull this place down (whilst leaving the tower in tact) - and I like the fact that the new light atriums will give a much more airey and 'open' feeling to the centre, almost restoring the streets to the city.

Whichever way you look at it, St John's is profitable because, like the Arndale Centre, it represents a very efficient use of space, maximising the floor plan to ensure low shop rentals and a high number of tennants. The new design will retain this strategy, whilst pulling the asthetics of the building into the 21st centuary.

It's vitally important for the economic stability and continued growth of our city centre, especially in the coming years, that we retain a wide range of retail choice, including the lower-end, cheaper stores which support a large percentage of the local population.

If anyone has the time I suggest going in to the information point as it has an excellent powerpoint on display showing some fantastic new 'before and after' renders.
 
#131 ·
It's vitally important for the economic stability and continued growth of our city centre, especially in the coming years, that we retain a wide range of retail choice, including the lower-end, cheaper stores which support a large percentage of the local population.
Indeed. Remember, we can't all afford to shop in uber posh shops. The city's still very poor. We'll always need 'lower-end' stores. It should also be noted that, at least up until this year, St Johns was been a money spinner. This revamp is merely a reaction to Liverpool 1. So long as it makes money, as they say, it'll be that if it isn't broke, it doesn't need fixing.
 
#127 ·
Tom, cheers for the photos, yes I do like it with the Williamson Square elevation being a massive improvement on that "horrible shed". I do not like the way this extended building "wraps " around the Merseytravel Info building, it might be better to knock it down and intergrate the Info point into the new building.
 
#130 ·
You are hard to please.............



Portobello red, A tad mean with your marks,:eek:hno: the "smart stone look" will turn this ugly duckling into an ( almost:lol:) swan, also contributing to a much more interesting envelope is the vast areas of GLASS. Now all we need is a re-cladd of the hotel and a nice shiny spire on top of Radio City Tower and I would give it 9/10
 
#133 ·
It's still a lump-scale mall.

A scarring, dirty, ugly, useless mall.

I find the gratuitous continuation of this wholly, dated, failed, inappropriate and unnappealing mid-West-suburbanisation of Liverpool's heart deeply offensive.

This vaunted "re-design" leaves me with absolutely no detectable feelings of visual pleasure either. Staines-u-like looks bland wherever it's put.

I hate it obviously.
 
#136 ·
its a shopping experience, years ago places like this were touted as being a shopping experience all in one place, all under cover so you dont get wet or cold going from one shop to another, Dont forget we had cold winters and plenty of rain, the concept also offered security through better lighting and indoor patrols, you can go and eat, communicate go to the loo all under one roof, i am not sure where the toilets are in Liverpool 1 or how many there are. I dont see much rubbish thrown around inside st johns either.
kat
 
#142 ·
I don't like St Johns and I never will.

It's an absolute god awful experience to walk through what with the god awful outdated music.

I agree with Alexi Sayle on this one, knock the whole of St Johns down including the beacon and return the area to the streets.

And create an even bigger tower while we are at it.
 
#143 ·
I think thats rather small minded. How can you possibly say that you will never like it?

What Land Securities are proposing is a complete overhaul of the existing structure, restructuring and allowing in more natural light and opening up the spaces considerably. In essence I feel it will be like experiencing a new building when works are complete.

Have a little faith. Good architecture, and strict planning can often work miracles.
 
#146 ·
From what I've seen the new St Johns will be better than the Arendale Centre.

Whether or not you agree that large malls like this have a place in a modern city centre (personally I believe that Liverpool is big enough to cope with St Johns, especially as the retail centre continues to expand on a number of other fronts, notably towards the river) the reality is that knocking St Johns down and 'starting again' just isn't an option. I'm also not convinced that even if it was an option we'd actually gain anything significantly better, given the types of shops that would be populating those streets. If we weren't careful I could see us ending up with a mini version of a small scale town centre like Wigan, or St Helens or the like.

And the prospect of loosing St Johns Tower doesn't bare thinking about, it's one of the most iconic buildings in the city (which also houses one of the largest and most succesful regional comercial radio stations in the country). And as Chris says, the idea of getting a tall iconic building to replace it would be second to none in this part of town.

At the end of the day, you can't pour vast quanitites of money into designing cheap shops, it just doesn't happen, and wouldn't make sound business sense if it did. The case in point is about maximising the real resources available to achieve the maximum gain for the city centre, and I believe the current proposal does just that.

One of the best ideas of the new plan is the relocation of the market hall - St john's used to have a wonderful and unique market, but over the years the quality and atmosphere (and smell!) have been in serious decline. The new market will be open, accessible, light and full of decent stalls. The idea of having a proper fish and meat market in the centre of town is something many of us have talked about for years. Afterall if we are going to attract people to live in the thousands of new flats which have srpung up around the city centre we need to offer them more than Tesco Metro for their food shopping.

I would encourage anyone who isn't sure about this proposal to go and physically look at the model, it really helps to make sense of the plans to see it in '3D'...
 
#148 ·
I love the proposed st.johns and i think it is vital for Liverpool to keep up with citys like Manchester , we do not want to go back to the way we were a year ago. I do not like the comparisons to the Manchester ardendale. St.Johns is going to be 1000 times better than this! I just can not wait.
 
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