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Old April 30th, 2017, 01:38 PM   #3201
Denis_Msk
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Unfortunately for every single initiative there are some "smart" people who will tell you that it's not possible
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Old April 30th, 2017, 02:27 PM   #3202
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Originally Posted by Yevgeniya16 View Post
You hardly notice them now because there now no so many trains going through, but trams every 20-30 minutes, this noise on the loop is very strong only in winter season (I do not know why cold affects like this), may be you hear noise of trams of lines number 4 or 5 if you are talking about 2-3 kilometers and if to prolong this line and terminate the terminus loop then will be quiet. What about vibration? There is big difference if there is one train in one hour and one train every 10 minutes.
During the day there aren't many trains, but during the night time it get's more busy. A train every 30 minutes or so. The vibrations of freight trains are bigger than from passenger trains or trams, but in the commieblocks (suprisngly!) it's also hardly noticeable. It's a diffrent story if you're outside tho.
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Old April 30th, 2017, 04:06 PM   #3203
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Unfortunately for every single initiative there are some "smart" people who will tell you that it's not possible
Not impossible – just difficult. And in my opinion, not worth it in the case of Rīga. They are more for cities with badly accessible railway stations – ones that are terminus stations and/or far from the city center. (And yes, I am not only referencing Karlsruhe, Kassel and the Hague, but also hinting to Tallinn)

Since cities have congestion but railway operations are made according to a strict schedule, tram-trains must have some 5 minutes of extra time at the tram–>railway transition point. This means that a tram-train from Rīga city center would not only go on the slow tram line number 2 across some pointless rivers (Daugava) and fields (Uzvaras parks) farther away from Torņakalns LU center and future multi-modal station, but also should have some 5 minutes of waiting at Tapešu iela just because on some days congestion might be worse. Plus, if an accident happens somewhere on the city street, the whole service might be blocked.
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Old May 2nd, 2017, 10:56 AM   #3204
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forum.myriga.info:
1. No 2017.g. 17.maija plkst. 12. esošie tramvaju maršruti Nr. 4. un Nr. 6. tiks apvienoti vienotā bezpārsēšanas maršrutā Nr. 1. – IMANTA – JUGLA.
Maršruts:
JUGLA -> Kr. Barona iela - Radio iela - 13.janvāra iela - 11.novembra krastmala -> IMANTA
IMANTA -> 11.novembra krastmala. - 13.janvāra iela - Aspazijas bulv. - Kr. Barona iela -> JUGLA

2. No 20.maija līdz septembrim no plkst. 8. katru dienu ! un katru pusstundu !
maršruts Nr. 58. – Purvciems – Vecmīlgrāvis – brauks līdz VECĀĶIEM!
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Old May 2nd, 2017, 01:44 PM   #3205
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https://info.riga.lv/ru/news/bespere...-17-maja?10960

https://info.riga.lv/lv/news/bezpars...17-maija?10960
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Old May 16th, 2017, 09:14 AM   #3206
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The opening date has been changed.

https://www.rigassatiksme.lv/lv/aktu...rset-5-junija/
https://www.rigassatiksme.lv/ru/aktu...antu-5-iyunya/

First picture of new tram in Imanta.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/iveta.krami...type=2&theater
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Old May 21st, 2017, 11:52 AM   #3207
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Greetings from Moscow's parade in "Sokolniki" park.

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Old May 22nd, 2017, 09:19 PM   #3208
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New Solaris Trollino 18 trolleybus with additional hydrogen fuel cells for Riga is currently undergoing homologation process in Gdynia:
https://www.facebook.com/zkmgdynia/p...type=3&theater
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Old August 25th, 2017, 11:57 AM   #3209
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European Commission has approved the ''Skanste tram" project.

Do you think it deserves its own special thread under infrastructure section?

http://lr1.lsm.lv/lv/raksts/pecpusdi...projek.a91044/

So far I haven't created a thread but the discussion about this project is yet another example of clash of politics, NIMBYism with religious twist, ''why build it, everyone will be in England by then'' sentiment, inability to peer at least a bit into future etc. Such names as ''cemetery'' tram or ''Skanste'' tram also do not help, as people like these catch phrases but it does not help to understand what the project is about. I cannot comment on how bad the project supposedly has itself been written, due to which later Riga Council could lose EU funding and we might have to pay for it from our taxes (as some claim), but as regards the need for the project this time I am on the side of Riga city.

First of all, it is ridiculous to think that Purvciems tram can be built without having any other entry in the city center as Barona street. In any case, you need alternate tracks. In peak hours there are already 21 trams per hour going into center on Barona street. Adding Purvciems we could potentially have another 10 trams per hour, in total 31 trams or 1 tram per 2 minutes or less would be traversing the street. It is possible to have them there, yes, but tram tracks is not metro. Accidents happen on streets, traffic jams and some disrepair happens - and then the whole chain of trams is stuck on the same rails with constant delays. If you have second set of tracks through the center, you can divert a part of traffic there, if needed you can divert all traffic from Jugla and Purvciems and Mezaparks on Skanste line if Barona street is blocked. It is insane, imho, to expect that we will add Purvciems and maybe something splitting and going into Pļavnieki and then expect all the trains to go through Barona street. I have read some experts saying that some stops already handling closer to 30 trams per hour in peak times, but these are only Grēcinieku iela and Nacionālā bibliotēka I think, not the whole stretch of Barona street in the center. I think it is not wise to go forward with Purvciems tracks until we have this ''circle'' in the center.

Secondly it's the good old ''cemetery'' stuff. As I understand, now the only concern is that some trees will be cut and that Soviets levelled some of the cemetery when building the street, so building the tram could lead to digging up some bones. Ok, then re-bury them with all the priests and rites being done. Big ******* deal. There are thousands of bones underneath Rome and they are still building metro there.

Then there are ''bus 24 already goes through Skanste and nobody uses it there'' people. Just because the tram is named ''Skanste'' tram by media or maybe Riga City Council as such, does not mean that its terminus is Skanste or it is built just for people of Skanste. It will result in two sets of tracks being in city center and a circle of tram tracks inside Riga center, which allows all the things I mentioned already about capacity, as well as what Riga Council has said - to make it easier for people to get where they want to get without going through the current main arteries of Riga center. Furthermore, Skanste after this tram will be built, will hopefully be a much different area from what it is now, with a lot more office buildings and inhabitants, museum, conference center etc.

The other category people are those which do not even warrant mentioning as I do not think ''don't need to build anything as everyone will be in England by that time'' opinions matter, especially when number of people living in Riga increased during 2016.

Maybe the project is not sound from financial side or, as always, communication of vision of what it will be has failed as it always seems to be in case in Latvia, but there is no doubt in my mind that it is also used in political games by opposition to rally the public against Ušakovs city council under the guise of protecting a few trees, some peoples' who nobody remembers anymore bones (which can easily be re-buried inside the cemetery) and pressing for plans like Purvciems line instead which, as I said, would anyway need, as I believe, second set of tracks through city center. Some are not against having this circle around (or in, as in this case) city center but argue that it should be built somewhere further out which I do not see making any sense, as trams 5 and 9 are already in that area and if the circle was further out, it would reach commuter train tracks which does not make any sense.
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Old August 26th, 2017, 12:18 PM   #3210
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Hawever...Skanste tram will bee used.

About Purvciems tram....ofcourse...another tracks need to bee build. Possibly it may have Caka street.

But again...it means..it will bee slow.


Whatever somebody are thinking....


But do you feel that Riga is pleasd for underground ? ))
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Old August 26th, 2017, 07:05 PM   #3211
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But again...it means..it will bee slow.
But do you feel that Riga is pleasd for underground ? ))
If they were to build metro in Riga, they would be facing NIMBYism of epic proportions. First, people who were against the first time would crawl out and if it was Ušakovs who was building, they would roll out ''Brīvību tēvzemei'' songs and make it about politics against... or would stress some possible or not some possible environmental problem, even though in the 80s it clearly was a political movement against metro based mainly on more migrants from Soviet Union coming in if it was built, and environmental reasons were put there so it would not look as blatantly political.
And in any case, since there is Northern corridor project and even Dienvidu tilts full project has not been finished I do not see metro before these two.... or Rail Baltica. Maybe if Riga continues to grow and as a whole Latvian economy grows, by 2030 we can look at that. But by that time NIMBY movement will also be much stronger, so that needs to be taken into account.
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Old August 26th, 2017, 08:36 PM   #3212
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First of all, it is ridiculous to think that Purvciems tram can be built without having any other entry in the city center as Barona street. In any case, you need alternate tracks. In peak hours there are already 21 trams per hour going into center on Barona street. Adding Purvciems we could potentially have another 10 trams per hour, in total 31 trams or 1 tram per 2 minutes or less would be traversing the street.
IMHO for Purvciems you'd need another line on Čaka street, because you won't divert trams through Skanste when people need to get to city center. Unless you do leave those 30 trams per hour on Barona and pray that in case of emergency a diversion through Skanste could be enacted on a moment's notice. So this line sort of solves capacity issues for Purvciems line, but not really.

Quote:
Secondly it's the good old ''cemetery'' stuff. As I understand, now the only concern is that some trees will be cut and that Soviets levelled some of the cemetery when building the street, so building the tram could lead to digging up some bones. Ok, then re-bury them with all the priests and rites being done. Big ******* deal. There are thousands of bones underneath Rome and they are still building metro there.
The original project called for widening of the street and demolishing a number of tombs which is highly immoral. Now they will try to fit everything in the existing width, but leave 4 lanes of traffic, getting rid of all sidewalks which is absolute nonsense

Quote:
Furthermore, Skanste after this tram will be built, will hopefully be a much different area from what it is now, with a lot more office buildings and inhabitants, museum, conference center etc.
The line has an awful alignment. (A part of the core problem is that Skanste has an awful street network integration) It's nice to have a tram line to a brand new area, but it has to be useful. But this line doesn't do a great job at connecting Skanste with the city center which would be best achieved by routing it through Bruņinieku iela. Right now it's useful if you need to get to Saeima or Alfa, but that's about it.
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Old August 26th, 2017, 09:56 PM   #3213
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IMHO for Purvciems you'd need another line on Čaka street, because you won't divert trams through Skanste when people need to get to city center. Unless you do leave those 30 trams per hour on Barona and pray that in case of emergency a diversion through Skanste could be enacted on a moment's notice. So this line sort of solves capacity issues for Purvciems line, but not really.
Barona street already has 30 km/h and bike lanes, which street will take more of the car traffic if some part of Čaka is allocated to trams? It would be the same as putting trams on Brīvības - as RS said - it would be even slower than trams on Barona.

Furthermore, does it make sense to have two tram tracks that go the same route on streets next to each other? Barona capacity still can be increased to trams going each 2,5 mins for ex. in peak hours, but not taking all trams down Barona, some continuing down Barona, some going along the Skanste route (taking into account that in future more people will want to go to Skanste/Miera street/Kr.Valdemāra from Purvciems/Pļavnieki too). Čaka street is 3 minute walk from Barona street, I don't think trams there would cover any bigger previously not covered area.

Of course, I would agree that a lot also depends on Skanste development. If they build up everything there, it will benefit also neighbouring areas and there will be demand for tram there (not only when somebody is playing in Arena Riga, and I think it already benefits like Miera, Kr. Valdemāra streets and Pulkveza Brieza, with renovations and their own projects. I don't know id there are any plans, but future national football stadium could also be located in Skanstes area - after Skonto is done with, I think it would be logical considering all the sports infrastructure already there (if they build it some day).

Furthermore, to be effective and for people to use it, public transport must go each 3 minutes at least in peak hours, not each 15-16 as now bus nr. 24 in Skanste. I am sure many of current Skanste ''dwellers'' would already use public transport to go to center if it was more regular. If you want to put people who drive cars all the time (people who live in Skanste now) in public transport, you need to offer a compelling alternative. To wait 15 min. or walk to Valdemāra street is not an option for people who are used to having transport always at their fingertips.

One thing is not clear to me - it was said that the new tram line will connect Riga Central Station with Skanste, but how? Is it planned to pull the tram tracks closer to railway station/underground it (maybe under Rail Baltica project)? I haven't read anything. Trams will still be in Centrāltirgus, next to Nacionālā opera which perhaps is not a big deal but it would be cool to create a modern hub where railway is seamlessly integrated with city's public transport.

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Old August 26th, 2017, 10:22 PM   #3214
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No no no....about metro...this was a bit of joke.

Im just lauhgting about the fact that city os crying for it. But we dont have money.....even if we would...this is not jobe for Rigas goverment or Rigas satiksme ...definetly ))
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Old August 26th, 2017, 11:33 PM   #3215
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Quote:
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No no no....about metro...this was a bit of joke.

Im just lauhgting about the fact that city os crying for it. But we dont have money.....even if we would...this is not jobe for Rigas goverment or Rigas satiksme ...definetly ))
Currently it also seems to me that metro would not really work. Our new suburbs are really ''sprawly'', metro works in places where people move further out from the city to find cheaper flats to rent/buy. In our case, people move out of the city in order to live in the 50s American urban sprawl ''paradise'' in private houses because they can afford it They have cars, road infrastructure and infrastructure planning there kinda sucks (looking at you, Mārupe sprawl) so there will never be decent public transport and metro would not solve anything as it is too sprawly. For metro it's ideal if you have something like Jaunā Teika over it (which might be a good metro stop in future ) where you can get out of your flat and be in metro train in few minutes... Or Skanste also. Zolitūde train station area, other Soviet commieblock districts.

Of course, there is still Imanta, Zolitūde, Purvciems, Ziepniekkalns etc. but they are relatively close to city center (or have train) and most of issues can be solved with improving existing modes of transport. It's ok to travel to work for 50 minutes or so on public transport (or - if 50 minutes is the time that takes you to approx. get from one active part of the city to another), I did that in Stockholm and many people commuted even longer even if there is an excellent public transport system there, and most people in Riga are in this 50 minute category. If you live in Bolderāja or Vecmīlgrāvis it sucks, yes, but otherwise I do not see such a pressing need now or even in 2030. If Pinki 3500 inhabitants/Rumbula 400 inh./Dreilini 4300 inh. are suddenly built up by dense urban housing aka Skanste/Jauna Teika then yes - we need to start thinking.

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Old August 27th, 2017, 12:30 PM   #3216
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Currently it also seems to me that metro would not really work. Our new suburbs are really ''sprawly'', metro works in places where people move further out from the city to find cheaper flats to rent/buy. In our case, people move out of the city in order to live in the 50s American urban sprawl ''paradise'' in private houses because they can afford it They have cars, road infrastructure and infrastructure planning there kinda sucks (looking at you, Mārupe sprawl) so there will never be decent public transport and metro would not solve anything as it is too sprawly. For metro it's ideal if you have something like Jaunā Teika over it (which might be a good metro stop in future ) where you can get out of your flat and be in metro train in few minutes... Or Skanste also. Zolitūde train station area, other Soviet commieblock districts.

Of course, there is still Imanta, Zolitūde, Purvciems, Ziepniekkalns etc. but they are relatively close to city center (or have train) and most of issues can be solved with improving existing modes of transport. It's ok to travel to work for 50 minutes or so on public transport (or - if 50 minutes is the time that takes you to approx. get from one active part of the city to another), I did that in Stockholm and many people commuted even longer even if there is an excellent public transport system there, and most people in Riga are in this 50 minute category. If you live in Bolderāja or Vecmīlgrāvis it sucks, yes, but otherwise I do not see such a pressing need now or even in 2030. If Pinki 3500 inhabitants/Rumbula 400 inh./Dreilini 4300 inh. are suddenly built up by dense urban housing aka Skanste/Jauna Teika then yes - we need to start thinking.
That's not American style to living in own houses for middle class. That's happening everywhere in Europe too. Even is evolved west. There are many reasons why middle class which can afford chose to change apartment to own house. People are really fed up with their neighbors. Sure there are many nice neighbors but still there are those problems where you can't listen to loud music because someone will complain and that if you want to have quiet and someone else is listening to louder music, or smoking on balconies where in summer you have to close your balcony because neighbor is smoking and smoke are coming in and then you have problems with house repairs. There always will be part of people who will be against anything and then you have people who refuse to pay for things and house has increasing debt where rest have to pay for it. After sometime people who live in apartments are fed up with that and chose to leave when they can. And that's not only for Soviet time houses but there are bad examples from new houses too like Skanstes Virsotnes or Panorama Plaza. And then there is price. Why to pay 200k+ for apartment which will last for as long as house will last or house with land for same price which you will be able to live for your whole life and maybe leave it to your children.
From my own experience those who have bought new apartment in Riga have personal house for weekends and holidays. Rest are either renting or planning to buy house when they will be able to and not new apartment in Riga.

About transport I don't think Riga needs metro line or even this new Skanstes tram line. Personally I think Riga need to use and upgrade it's existing Train lines. There are already train line to Jugla, Imanta, Bolderaja, Kengarags and there is even old line to Skanste which I suppose will be demolished because of New Hanzas City... And there even is rail line till Pasazieru Osta..
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Old August 27th, 2017, 05:28 PM   #3217
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Barona street already has 30 km/h and bike lanes, which street will take more of the car traffic if some part of Čaka is allocated to trams? It would be the same as putting trams on Brīvības - as RS said - it would be even slower than trams on Barona.

Furthermore, does it make sense to have two tram tracks that go the same route on streets next to each other?
You always ignore that trams would need their own right of way. They would not be in any congestion, but it would be worse for car traffic which would have two less lanes. Then again, the same should be done on Barona: forbid through car traffic, remove the speed limit and make the bike lanes actual bike lanes. That street cannot handle both trams, cars and bikes. Along with raised platforms which speed boarding and improved traffic light cycles you could slightly raise capacity, but would you still reroute trams through Skanste if something goes wrong? Čaka is an easy diversion. (But yes, perhaps we shouldn't. Though, replacing the trolleybus with buses, Čaka would be basically left without public transport)

Quote:
Barona capacity still can be increased to trams going each 2,5 mins for ex. in peak hours, but not taking all trams down Barona, some continuing down Barona, some going along the Skanste route (taking into account that in future more people will want to go to Skanste/Miera street/Kr.Valdemāra from Purvciems/Pļavnieki too).
We can all assume that more people will want to go to Skanste, but it would be wrong to assume that the demand for Barona iela would decrease. Just look at how packed are the trams currently. You cannot just remove trams from Barona iela and tell people that sorry, this is because Skanste needs more trams. Skanste should only be additional trams, not rerouting of existing ones.

Quote:
One thing is not clear to me - it was said that the new tram line will connect Riga Central Station with Skanste, but how? Is it planned to pull the tram tracks closer to railway station/underground it (maybe under Rail Baltica project)? I haven't read anything. Trams will still be in Centrāltirgus, next to Nacionālā opera which perhaps is not a big deal but it would be cool to create a modern hub where railway is seamlessly integrated with city's public transport.
No integration. Everything about the project is populism (including most of the opposition). The tram line would end either in Radio street or Central market loop.
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Old August 28th, 2017, 06:36 PM   #3218
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Anjansons.... You live in Stockholm, and you are sure that Riga is not neccessary for underground even if we would have a money..


Dont say that BMW is bad car just because you can afford it.

Stupid example, but you know what i mean



There is no way rather then partly of underground transport for Riga. Like it or not.

Yesss we don't have a money. This is another question.


No extra tram tracks in city center no city train who is going around the center, no pulbic lanes no bycicles....this all is bullshit.

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Old August 28th, 2017, 09:01 PM   #3219
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That's not American style to living in own houses for middle class. That's happening everywhere in Europe too. Even is evolved west. There are many reasons why middle class which can afford chose to change apartment to own house. People are really fed up with their neighbors.
Sorry, I didn't mean that people should not live in private houses. My idea was that if Mārupe had more Jaunā Teika-like area AND also private housing (not just pretty much private housing and some low-rise apartment houses), or even neighbourhoods further out like Piņķi would be like that, then there would be terrible traffic situation and we would definitely need metro - you could put metro in the center of highrise area and then have feeder busses go through the neighbourhood and pick everyone to take to nearest metro stop, as it happens in cities with metro. Currently though they are rather sprawly, not in a good way. I think infrastructure is lacking, although I do not live there, but when I talk to people they always mention that services they use are still in Riga, not in place there.

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Originally Posted by BriedisUnIzlietne View Post
You always ignore that trams would need their own right of way. They would not be in any congestion, but it would be worse for car traffic which would have two less lanes. Then again, the same should be done on Barona: forbid through car traffic, remove the speed limit and make the bike lanes actual bike lanes. That street cannot handle both trams, cars and bikes. Along with raised platforms which speed boarding and improved traffic light cycles you could slightly raise capacity, but would you still reroute trams through Skanste if something goes wrong? Čaka is an easy diversion. (But yes, perhaps we shouldn't. Though, replacing the trolleybus with buses, Čaka would be basically left without public transport)
There are very few cars on Barona nowadays, ok maybe I have not been there on weekdays during peak hours, but on weekends it is pretty much dead car traffic wise- that was my impression, unlike Čaka with public transport etc. Yes, of course trams have right of way but some people are morons, there are accidents etc. and I don't see how leaving just 2 lines for cars (even if we remove busses and trolleybuses if we have a tram, which I doubt will happen as the neighbourhoods are big enough and tracks will not cover everything in Purvciems/Pļavnieki) helps the traffic situation. Cars will always be there, unless we build a tunnel for them under the city, no matter how much we encourage bikes, carpooling, improve public transport. Can't get rid of cars. Furthermore, it does not make economic sense to run tracks on parallel streets. It would make the same sense as building an autobahn to Rēzekne and Daugavpils. Yeah, we would like that, but it is not an economically sound decision. If you build a track, you want it to go in some new direction, not repeat the path in parallel where you can get from one stop on Barona to another on Čaka in 2 minutes and travel the same stretch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BriedisUnIzlietne View Post
We can all assume that more people will want to go to Skanste, but it would be wrong to assume that the demand for Barona iela would decrease. Just look at how packed are the trams currently. You cannot just remove trams from Barona iela and tell people that sorry, this is because Skanste needs more trams. Skanste should only be additional trams, not rerouting of existing ones.
I was not saying that we should take away trams from Barona street, on the contrary - if now there are 21 trams on peak hours, maybe in future there can be 26... but not 31. Part of Purvciems trams can go down to center all the way, part go to Skanste and maybe 1-2 can just go to Pērnavas street and turn around and go to Mežciems (similarly to tram 11) on that route - to increase frequency there. If people want to get to the center and happen on the train that goes to Skanste or changes to 11 route, they can always get out and get into next one coming. There is no need to remove 2 lines on Čaka from cars, if you can have trams travelling down Barona street each 1-3 minutes in peak hours, which is plenty enough I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BriedisUnIzlietne View Post
No integration. Everything about the project is populism (including most of the opposition). The tram line would end either in Radio street or Central market loop.
After I wrote that, I read some long paper on possible improvements to area around railway station on Rail Baltica homepage and there was something about getting tram tracks closer to railway station (but not underground, which would seem like a fancy decision for me and we could have a mini-metro - one station). Would be cool if you could exit Rail Baltica or Rēzekne/Daugavpils/Liepāja train and go down the escalator to undergound, beep your etalons to go through gates and wait for your underground tram to arrive.
But i dunno how much of that are real plans and how much just recommendations and suggestions.

Last edited by anjansons; August 28th, 2017 at 09:44 PM.
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Old August 28th, 2017, 09:11 PM   #3220
anjansons
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Originally Posted by RS View Post
Anjansons.... You live in Stockholm, and you are sure that Riga is not necessary for underground even if we would have a money..
There is no way rather then partly of underground transport for Riga. Like it or not.
Yesss we don't have a money. This is another question.
Well, I am mainly against because we don't have money and by 2030 we will MAYBE have money to sort of think whether to do it or not. Although if Riga is back to 700+ thousand people in 2030 and growing (and same true for suburbs), it could be a wise decision.
I dunno... I just look at busses/trolleybusses from Purvciems/Pļavnieki in the mornings and, yes, they are packed, but metro trains in Stockholm are packed too in the mornings and they too go each 2-3 minutes and are huge compared to tiny busses. It's a completely different situation with ridership. Of course, Stockholm is a bigger city and, of course, if there was metro more people in Riga would use it. But does it make sense economically? Of course it would be a nice way to get around town, especially if trains run half empty as there are not enough people to use them.

On the other hand, in this quarter average salary before taxes in Riga has finally and surely climbed over 1000 euros and economy seems to be growing better, and some have even started to warn about early signs of new ''fat years'', so who knows. Maybe Ušakovs saves the metro plan until next elections, when Skanste tram will be finished, he will start promising Purvciems dwellers metro.

Last edited by anjansons; August 28th, 2017 at 10:05 PM.
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