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Old June 2nd, 2008, 09:53 PM   #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanniken View Post
what is the problem with the airport-citycenter railway line? looking at those plans of railway connection at airport, I think they plan to build a line and connect it to already existing Riga-Jurmala one. For that they will need to build bridge over K.Ulmana gatve (Jurmala road). I think it is a wise decision, and it totally corresponds to already existing idea of implementing a S-bahn type of mass transit system in Riga.
Yeah, who knows what they are planning and thinking - so few information is given out in regard to Rail Baltica, Riga Railway, Low Floor trains and new routes and bridges. I am sure there are interesting plans and concepts that are not released to public
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Old June 3rd, 2008, 09:55 AM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomels View Post
Yeah, who knows what they are planning and thinking - so few information is given out in regard to Rail Baltica, Riga Railway, Low Floor trains and new routes and bridges. I am sure there are interesting plans and concepts that are not released to public
Sure the must be ideas in the air.
There must be a train connection to airport for goods and international passengers but when it comes to fast connection to city center, I believe a fast direct tram will be faster to reach city-center. Tram going partly on railway tracks...
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Old June 3rd, 2008, 10:05 AM   #343
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That is not bad idea at all
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Old June 3rd, 2008, 08:06 PM   #344
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Why are you so worried about that Airport railway? If A. Shlesers had officially approved that idea, which includes construction of a new railway from a new airport station and a bridge over K.Ulmana gatve, which will be linked to the existing Riga-Jurmala line, than it will be done !!!
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Old June 4th, 2008, 10:14 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by Gatis View Post

In previous years Riga got 29 new Solaris Trollino 12 trolleybuses, their design looks a lot better than Skoda. But it seems that Skoda could be technically better. In 2007 there were supplied 20 new Skoda's, in 2008 - 80 and in 2009 - 50. In total 40 of these trolleybuses will have diesel engines. Floor is very low, for people with wheelcharts there is special platform so that they can enter the trolleybus.
Hi,I come from Gdansk and it's my first comment in this part of Europe
I was looking for some informations about that tram tender,which Rigas Satiksme declared last year;I've heard,that Skoda won that and will deliver 20 trams.What was the reason of that choice:price,tradition (as I know,most of your tram-cars are of Czech origin) or something else (eg. some requirements connected with experience and number of tramcars made till 2007) ?I'll appreciate if you explain me that thing

Besides,I've noticed your comment about trolleybusses and I doubt in Skoda's advantage. Delivery of 24Tr and 25Tr's is e result of Ganz Transelectro bankruptcy;Skoda bought that manufacturer and took (as a result) remaining part of that big contract,which Solaris and GT previously won (as I remember, after this few Solaris TB's were delivered AS SKODA TB'S and with electric equipment made by Skoda).
Solaris is known as modern,reliable and not to expensive trolleybus,used in some cities and towns in Western Europe eg. Rome,Naples,Coimbra,the only TB-system in Sweden (Landskrona),few TB-systems in Switzerland (as the only nos-swiss manufacturer - apart from van Hool - which delivered trolleybusses to this country during last decades).Solaris sold many TB's also in Central-East Europe (Budapest,Riga,Tallinn,Debrecen... and few (oh my God,how could it be possible?!) cities in Czech Republic including Ostrava (by the way:have you seen some NON HISTORIC Skoda trolleybus in Poland during last 25 years? There are only 17 Skoda trams in Wroclaw... because Skoda was the only manufacturer,which offered trams to that city ).

To sum up:for sure Skoda sold much more trolleybusses from it's beginning (till today) than Solaris;but take a look on Solaris' reference list (autobuses and trolleybusses) on www.solarisbus.pl and ask yourself if it's worse or BETTER than Skoda's one

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Old June 4th, 2008, 10:33 PM   #346
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I am not an expert, because I have participated only in couple of large projects in Riga. From my experience - the first requirement in Riga is to know the right people. Everything else can be easily rearranged to suite you. Its pretty easy.
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Old June 4th, 2008, 10:46 PM   #347
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Ugh, I already hate those Škodas.
They're the least to say uncomfortable. Lots of boxes under seats, no space at all for legs, high steps up to the seat area, bad planning. What's with the big dark corner in the rear? Even with the top window it looks so dark and gloomy. And they could have hidden the blinkers, it's sooo annoying when they're blinking and you have to see it all the time from the backward rear seats.
Noise reduction is something they haven't thought of at any time, they are already a whole lot louder than the Solarises, what will they sound like when they are 10-20 years old? Like the old Škodas?? Not to mention the horrible door shutting signal, they couldn't have found anything more annoying.
And they look sooo ugly and 80ies!
The green(!!) stop sign is something you definitely don't connect to stop...

The Solaris is very modern and quiet and gives like a very calm feeling (great when you are going to work in early mornings and are dead tired) but the Škodas just make me feel restless.

/or
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Old June 4th, 2008, 11:17 PM   #348
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Old June 5th, 2008, 01:41 AM   #349
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from these comments about Skoda trolleys, it seems - another one stupid thing is done here
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Old June 5th, 2008, 05:36 PM   #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vecais Sakarnis View Post
from these comments about Skoda trolleys, it seems - another one stupid thing is done here
You mean,of course,that buying Skoda trolleybuses was that stupid thing,am I right?In this case we have the same opinion
Remember,that bodies of 24Tr and 25Tr are... Renault Agora 12M and 18M,presented in 1995!Ok,it had a little face-lifting,but it's still Agora!12 years ago,when I saw it for the first time in Gdansk,it was a modern bus,but today?! Manager of some Dopravni Podnik (transport authority),probably in Usti nad Labem (but I'm not sure if exactly there),called Skoda 25Tr "shit from the floor up to the ceiling" Moreover,the only problem of Solaris trolleybuses was connected with Cegelec' equipment (BTW:Skoda's equipment isn't also reliable;I remember the only test run of Skoda 21Tr in Gdynia - it didn't survive to the end of the day.More:Skoda "died" before the end of the first lap ).
So why Skoda's are still delivered to many cities?In Czech Republic it dosn't need any comment.In Bulgaria,Romania and Latvia... well, Skoda is more reliable than ZIU-9 In Hungary... who bought Ganz Transelectro after it's bankruptcy?But how many buses or trolleybuses made in czech Republic you can find in Germany,France,Italy,Switzerland... (I'll put the link to site about Solaris on Wikipedia;it's link to Polish version.There are also English and Latvian versions,but they are only small parts of the Polish one:

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solaris_(motoryzacja)

At the beginning of next year we'll see the new low-floor tram made by Solaris:


Are you interested in? It will be built in two versions:70% and 100% of low floor;before that Solaris cooperates with Bombardier by final mounting of Flexity Classic for Gdansk and Krakow (it's just finished).
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Old June 5th, 2008, 06:20 PM   #351
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Thanks for the post Eurotram
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Old June 5th, 2008, 06:50 PM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eurotram View Post

Are you interested in? It will be built in two versions:70% and 100% of low floor;before that Solaris cooperates with Bombardier by final mounting of Flexity Classic for Gdansk and Krakow (it's just finished).
I really like the work done by Solaris, this is what Poland should produce more for Europe. Nice design and affordable technology. Maybe not perfect, but Solaris is a good example to follow so far... If RVR could start to build buses, and why not help Solaris to produce more (I know Solaris is lacking a bit of production possibilities, they cannot answer all requests...)...

Am I correct Eurotram? You seem to be commercial representative of Solaris
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Old June 5th, 2008, 07:21 PM   #353
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these Solaris trams looks really futuristic! Like them!
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Old June 5th, 2008, 07:26 PM   #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eurotram View Post
You mean,of course,that buying Skoda trolleybuses was that stupid thing,am I right?
Yes. I think it's stupid to spend money on something which looks so outdated. Of course, if you are a very pragmatic person, you can say - most important is how they serve as vehicles, and about that I can't judge because haven't been in them yet, but imo, the design is just as important thing - it creates city environment and affects people emotionally. At least, Skoda trams don't look awful.
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Old June 5th, 2008, 07:43 PM   #355
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I learned that in France, when they speak about tram budgets, only 1/3 or 1/4 of the budget goes into Tram material the rest goes into renovating the surrounding environment: stations, stops, renovating buildings, in short, improving the life of people living in the surroundings of Tram.

Where are the 120 millions € to do the job in Riga (if I calculate well 42 millions for rolling stock)
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Old June 5th, 2008, 08:17 PM   #356
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Nomels:You're welcome

Micrav:tram looks very well,I know that.If we are talking about technology of this tram,then I'll tell you hmmmm.... Maybe you know something about beginning of Solaris; previously it's name was Neoplan Poland and they offered real Neoplan buses (made in Bolechowo,but with Gottlob Auwärter GmbH's license).But let's go back to the tram:there are some signs,that Gecko will be produced in some kind of cooperation with... Bombardier.Probably electric part will not come from Kiepe,but it's gonna be really interesting offer for transport authorities,which look for soemthing more than cheapest products.
And my previous posts were not commercials,you can be sure
Telling simply:Solaris is probably as recognised abroad as any other polish product.And I remember that delivery of autobuses and trolleybuses to Riga was first big foreign contract got by Solaris.Today Solaris is more important player in "Bus World" (225 buses for Dubai,42 trolleybuses for Kaunas,another 45 for Vilnius),but polish fans remember

Vecais Sakarnis:"For City" looks quite well for Skoda But on the other hand it looks like unit designed for Fast Tram;if new line in Riga is a Fast Tram Line,then it's OK.But if it has to operate in city centre,then I would choose another type.
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Old June 5th, 2008, 09:41 PM   #357
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For connoisseurs, here is one poor picture of the new tram of Brussels:

But you can see that the tram rides in an metro type of station.
It is also a solution for cities crowded with cars... No need for a metro when you have a good tram network

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/be/...00/T3000-1.jpg
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Old June 6th, 2008, 04:30 AM   #358
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Damn! That Solaris is a s-e-x-y looking tram. Would love to see something like that in San Francisco or Vilnius...

P.S: We have Skoda manufactured trolleybuses in San Francisco but they're kinda wonky and boxy-looking:


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Old June 6th, 2008, 03:47 PM   #359
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Sorry to disturb this "buy polish" campaign, but for those interested in what sort of beast Riga is getting, more info on Skoda ForCity tram can be found on Central Europe and "and Czech republic tramway threads. I especially recommend this and this post.

Btw eurotram, you seem to have some important things about the (transportation) business messed up: Skoda and Solaris are not competitors. Skoda doesn't make coachworks of their trolleybusses anymore (buys them directly from bus manufacturers), while Solaris doesn't make electric equipment (buys it from electric equipment manufacturers). If anything the two may be supplier/customer of each other, which in fact is the case with Ganz-Skoda. And it won't change much if Solaris enters tramway market too, because (as it seems now) they will only make what they know well, ie coachwork, while all the technologies (that represent the most tricky and costly part) will be provided by an external supplier (Bombardier as it seams now, who knows perhaps Skoda some day ).
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Old June 7th, 2008, 11:14 AM   #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiRazor View Post
Btw eurotram, you seem to have some important things about the (transportation) business messed up: Skoda and Solaris are not competitors. Skoda doesn't make coachworks of their trolleybusses anymore (buys them directly from bus manufacturers), while Solaris doesn't make electric equipment (buys it from electric equipment manufacturers). If anything the two may be supplier/customer of each other, which in fact is the case with Ganz-Skoda. And it won't change much if Solaris enters tramway market too, because (as it seems now) they will only make what they know well, ie coachwork, while all the technologies (that represent the most tricky and costly part) will be provided by an external supplier (Bombardier as it seams now, who knows perhaps Skoda some day ).
Not exactly:in spite of cooperation with another suppliers there IS some competition between them."Consortium" od Skoda (traction engine) and Karosa (nowadays Czech part of Irisbus) fights against konsortium of Solaris and Cegelec (btw,in Tricity - exactly in Gdynia - we have testruns of ST12M - Solaris Trollino 12 powered by Medcom;Medcom is supplier of traction engines for Pesa trams and now we can say,that this part of those trams is really reliable ).But in future... OK,end of this topic
About trams:in this case there will be a real competition,because Skoda as well as Solaris makes the car body on it's own.So we'll se...
About 15T:I wonder what about durability of Jacobs bogey made this way;I suppose it can be a little bit like with turbodiesel engine (more power,less durability)...
Later I will write more
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