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Old June 7th, 2008, 03:49 PM   #361
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Solaris trams certainly look great. Regarding purchase of Skoda low-floor trams there was one important thing - Riga got only ONE tender proposal and that one was from Skoda. There was no proposal from Solaris or anyone else. Skoda complied with tender requirements and Riga just had to take the offer.
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Old June 7th, 2008, 06:38 PM   #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatis View Post
Solaris trams certainly look great. Regarding purchase of Skoda low-floor trams there was one important thing - Riga got only ONE tender proposal and that one was from Skoda. There was no proposal from Solaris or anyone else. Skoda complied with tender requirements and Riga just had to take the offer.
Thats pretty sad. The question is - how did they make other not to participate - I am sure there would be companies interested in it. Is it by making criteria suitable for Skoda or something else?
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Old June 7th, 2008, 07:58 PM   #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatis View Post
Solaris trams certainly look great. Regarding purchase of Skoda low-floor trams there was one important thing - Riga got only ONE tender proposal and that one was from Skoda. There was no proposal from Solaris or anyone else. Skoda complied with tender requirements and Riga just had to take the offer.
Deja vu,or what? Just the same situation as in Wroclaw (btw,I wrote it few comments earlier). Could you tell me more about the most interesting parts of Tender Specification?Because it looks a little bit strange if nobody of greatest manufacturers wants to sell 20 tram cars,with additional option for... I don't remember how many,but that was much more than in Wroclaw:8 cars and optionally 9 others;in capital of Lower Silesia 8 cars was to less for Bombardier,but so many trams in Riga?! I really don't understand it
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Old June 7th, 2008, 08:16 PM   #364
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Ugh, I already hate those Škodas.
They're the least to say uncomfortable. Lots of boxes under seats, no space at all for legs, high steps up to the seat area, bad planning. What's with the big dark corner in the rear? Even with the top window it looks so dark and gloomy. And they could have hidden the blinkers, it's sooo annoying when they're blinking and you have to see it all the time from the backward rear seats.
Noise reduction is something they haven't thought of at any time, they are already a whole lot louder than the Solarises, what will they sound like when they are 10-20 years old? Like the old Škodas?? Not to mention the horrible door shutting signal, they couldn't have found anything more annoying.
And they look sooo ugly and 80ies!
The green(!!) stop sign is something you definitely don't connect to stop...

The Solaris is very modern and quiet and gives like a very calm feeling (great when you are going to work in early mornings and are dead tired) but the Škodas just make me feel restless.

/or


You guys should have gone for Crotram, ok I know these are very long (32m) and have few seats, but Zagreb has different needs, therefore different seating arrangements, but tram can be designed to client's needs and specs.



PS, this is Crotram (TMK2200) in Helsinki...
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Old June 7th, 2008, 09:05 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by mic of Orion View Post


You guys should have gone for Crotram, ok I know these are very long (32m) and have few seats, but Zagreb has different needs, therefore different seating arrangements, but tram can be designed to client's needs and specs.

PS, this is Crotram (TMK2200) in Helsinki...
That's the worst tram I have *ever* been inside in my life. In fact I'd rather walk than take it. There's only one of them in Helsinki for testing purposes. I hope the city doesn't buy it.

1) It's loud as tractor - you can hear it approaching very easily
2) It has dubious suspension - I can feel every switch of rails distinctly
3) It vibrates like no tomorrow - I'd rather not sit in it, because my entire body is resonating with the tram
4) The engineering is obviously crap, because the entire flanks have this 50cm bulge which has some tech-stuff underneath, anyway, this makes it possible to put only one row of seats on each side.
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Old June 7th, 2008, 09:28 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by raz View Post
That's the worst tram I have *ever* been inside in my life. In fact I'd rather walk than take it. There's only one of them in Helsinki for testing purposes. I hope the city doesn't buy it.

1) It's loud as tractor - you can hear it approaching very easily
2) It has dubious suspension - I can feel every switch of rails distinctly
3) It vibrates like no tomorrow - I'd rather not sit in it, because my entire body is resonating with the tram
4) The engineering is obviously crap, because the entire flanks have this 50cm bulge which has some tech-stuff underneath, anyway, this makes it possible to put only one row of seats on each side.
sorry man but you totally exaggerated it.
of course...there are trams of better construction which are more ""quiet" than this one, but saying that this one sounds like a tractor is a total nonsence

anyways...i like your new trams...classic design but very nice.
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Old June 7th, 2008, 10:10 PM   #367
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You mean,of course,that buying Skoda trolleybuses was that stupid thing,am I right?In this case we have the same opinion
Remember,that bodies of 24Tr and 25Tr are... Renault Agora 12M and 18M,presented in 1995!Ok,it had a little face-lifting,but it's still Agora!12 years ago,when I saw it for the first time in Gdansk,it was a modern bus,but today?! Manager of some Dopravni Podnik (transport authority),probably in Usti nad Labem (but I'm not sure if exactly there),called Skoda 25Tr "shit from the floor up to the ceiling" Moreover,the only problem of Solaris trolleybuses was connected with Cegelec' equipment (BTW:Skoda's equipment isn't also reliable;I remember the only test run of Skoda 21Tr in Gdynia - it didn't survive to the end of the day.More:Skoda "died" before the end of the first lap ).
So why Skoda's are still delivered to many cities?In Czech Republic it dosn't need any comment.In Bulgaria,Romania and Latvia... well, Skoda is more reliable than ZIU-9 In Hungary... who bought Ganz Transelectro after it's bankruptcy?But how many buses or trolleybuses made in czech Republic you can find in Germany,France,Italy,Switzerland... (I'll put the link to site about Solaris on Wikipedia;it's link to Polish version.There are also English and Latvian versions,but they are only small parts of the Polish one:

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solaris_(motoryzacja)

At the beginning of next year we'll see the new low-floor tram made by Solaris:


Are you interested in? It will be built in two versions:70% and 100% of low floor;before that Solaris cooperates with Bombardier by final mounting of Flexity Classic for Gdansk and Krakow (it's just finished).
very nice
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Old June 7th, 2008, 11:18 PM   #368
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Damn! That Solaris is a s-e-x-y looking tram. Would love to see something like that in San Francisco or Vilnius...

P.S: We have Skoda manufactured trolleybuses in San Francisco but they're kinda wonky and boxy-looking:


This remainds me existing Skoda trolleys in Riga.

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Old June 7th, 2008, 11:22 PM   #369
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very nice
I'll tell you more;that can by interesting for some people and funny for the others.But let's go back to to Wroclaw: local transport authority (of course by tender ) ordered 8 Skodas 16T:

and later those optional 9 further trams.
Almost the same time as Skoda,another low-floor tram appeared in Wroclaw:

It was Protram 205WrAs:maybe not the most beautiful tram in the world,but costs less than 1,2 Mio Euro by 26 m. length. And now Protram (Wroclaw's "home manufacturer") offers to (especially polish) transport authorities THIS model:

What can I say about quality of Protram's products? Few years ago they made a maintenance of 105N type trams form ZKM Gdansk - and they made a really good job;besides I've heard that 205WrAs are told as reliable.Bad news is that Protram is able to build only few trams of that type yearly (for today).

And one more thing about "buy Polish campaign":I came to your (I write these word for all of You in this thread,who answered me) forum because I wanted to get some informations about tram tender in Riga and I was able to change some informations if someone asked Besides I knew,that there is no tram manufacturer (or big tram manufacturer) in Latvia since the last tram of (famous) RVZ-6 was built;so there was nothing wrong with introducing some types of polish trams and trolleybuses (especially that you already have some polish tb's)

Best regards
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Old June 8th, 2008, 12:58 AM   #370
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It's OK. Believe me - people here like Solaris buses and trolleys. Skoda though had a long history here and may be that's why some authorities (who earlier most likely worked in lower positions and nearer to Skoda machinery) are happy to see Skoda here. Don't know what was written in tender documentation, have not had a need or time to look into it.
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Old June 8th, 2008, 09:23 AM   #371
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It's OK. Believe me - people here like Solaris buses and trolleys. Skoda though had a long history here and may be that's why some authorities (who earlier most likely worked in lower positions and nearer to Skoda machinery) are happy to see Skoda here. Don't know what was written in tender documentation, have not had a need or time to look into it.
What a pity;I've read a Riga Satiksme's website and I couldn't find anything about tenders - are they put on this website?For example on our transport authorities' websites I can find the whole tender specification with all annexes.More:when something is unclear for offerent,the authority gives him answers for his questions and PUT IN ON THE WEBSITE ALSO!And one more thing:if you want,you can be present during the opening of the offers
But your argument about "tradition" is quite understandable;Gdansk used to buy Konstal trams and when ZKM Gdansk had to buy their first low floor trams,they where also form Konstal.All crushed when ZKM bought trams of type Citadis 100:continuos problems with mutateurs etc. caused that for the new tramline they bought 3 Flexity Classic trams (and IMHO nothing made in Chorzow - city of Alstom-Konstal - is gonna appear in Gdansk for many years ).
But I still wonder about what was written in specification?Because managment's sympathies are not enough to win the tender. Maybe three months ago Skoda bought Pars Nova,firm doing maintenances of trams i.e. for Moscow.So maybe there was some requirement of making a number of new tram cars ore number of modernisation of trams for the 1524mm gauge - in that case Bombardier nor Siemens couldn't satisfy tender's reqiurements.Was that possible? And one more question:what about pantograph?Is Skoda going to have a trolley as the other trams in Riga?If yes,that could be another argument explaining why the others din't want to fight...
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Old June 8th, 2008, 10:38 PM   #372
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Alexriga: I totally see the similarities! San Francisco's Skoda trolleys are just a small evolutionary step further from the old 14Tr in Riga! Now when when I ride the trolleybus I will squint my eyes and pretend I'm in Riga!

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This remainds me existing Skoda trolleys in Riga.
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Old June 9th, 2008, 01:22 PM   #373
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Tram line under gaisa bridge

There is some new tram rails under gaisa bridge, to perform I/O of trams depo
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Old June 9th, 2008, 01:39 PM   #374
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There is some new tram rails under gaisa bridge, to perform I/O of trams depo
Hey, welcome! Thanks for joining!

May be you can take some photos? Which bridge exactly?
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Old June 9th, 2008, 01:55 PM   #375
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Sorry for inaccuracyty, near depo nr.5 under this bridge (under Brīvības st.)
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...05558&t=h&z=18

I think thise rails will be used tempory, until new tram tunel is ready...
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Old June 9th, 2008, 02:59 PM   #376
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Hmm, interesting. Is it perpendicular to train rails? if so, is going to cross it directly on the same level?
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Old June 9th, 2008, 03:54 PM   #377
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it seems that they're building new rails to depo (under the current bridge), so that the trams coming from the center should not cross the Brivibas street
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Old June 9th, 2008, 10:03 PM   #378
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Aha, thanks
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Old June 14th, 2008, 04:21 PM   #379
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From DELFI.LV:

Creating a trolleybus line from Riga to Ķekava might cost some tens million lats.
Payments will be measured in tens million lats so that to build not only substations, contact networks and other infrastructure, but also and, probably, to increase number of trolleybuses - present quantity is stipulated only for service of the routes inside the city.
It was reported already that the population of Ķekava volost appealed to the provisional administration with a proposal to extend the line from Katlakalns to Ķekava. Whether the trolleybus route Riga - Ķekava might be realized, or not, it is all up for self-government district of Riga to decide.

Now at the disposal of "Rīgas satiksme" are more than 318 trolleybuses, 84 of them were purchased in the last six years. Trolleybuses cover 20 routes and 33,5% of transported passengers of "Rīgas satiksme".
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Old June 14th, 2008, 07:44 PM   #380
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From DELFI.LV:

Creating a trolleybus line from Riga to Ķekava might cost some tens million lats.
Payments will be measured in tens million lats so that to build not only substations, contact networks and other infrastructure, but also and, probably, to increase number of trolleybuses - present quantity is stipulated only for service of the routes inside the city.
It was reported already that the population of Ķekava volost appealed to the provisional administration with a proposal to extend the line from Katlakalns to Ķekava. Whether the trolleybus route Riga - Ķekava might be realized, or not, it is all up for self-government district of Riga to decide.

Now at the disposal of "Rīgas satiksme" are more than 318 trolleybuses, 84 of them were purchased in the last six years. Trolleybuses cover 20 routes and 33,5% of transported passengers of "Rīgas satiksme".
Well this may sound an interesting proposal, but I think it deserves a slightly more thought, because I'm sure there are other potential means of transport - tram, railway and possibly water route. I totally agree that electric transit is a way to go, but unless there is an additional line for public transport, trolleys would be messing up the whole traffic from Riga to Kekava
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