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Old February 26th, 2015, 11:35 PM   #1801
Coccodrillo
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The line is expected to open in 2028, reducing Lyon – Turin journey times from 3h 30min to 1h 47min.
Actually, there are just 3 passengers trains a day (per direction) on the existing line, none of which goes to Lyon itself (just to Saint Euxpéry airport on its way to Paris).
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Old February 27th, 2015, 01:15 AM   #1802
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Now, it's very possible that once the line will be open (in 2028!!!) we will have trains running Lyon-Turin-Milan. Maybe we could even have Marseille-Lyon-Turin-Milan services decently interesting, on top of the Paris-Turin-Milan

But a bit of math tells me anyway Milan-Paris (by far the most interesting connection) will be something close to 4 hours, 4 hours and 30 minutes. In my opinion, too much to be competitive with planes
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Old February 27th, 2015, 03:11 AM   #1803
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Nah, 4:30 is still within the range to compete with planes. You won't be much faster going by plane as you'll have to go to the airport at least one hour early (cautious people tend to be there even earlier), be on your way to the destination, have your stuff collected and make it to the city again.
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Old February 27th, 2015, 09:48 AM   #1804
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Originally Posted by Eddard Stark View Post
But a bit of math tells me anyway Milan-Paris (by far the most interesting connection) will be something close to 4 hours, 4 hours and 30 minutes. In my opinion, too much to be competitive with planes
Knowing that all railway stations are in the city centers and that you are free to arrive to the station 5 minutes before your train departs, in my opinion up to 5 hours it may still be competitive.
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Old February 27th, 2015, 11:43 AM   #1805
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Knowing that all railway stations are in the city centers and that you are free to arrive to the station 5 minutes before your train departs, in my opinion up to 5 hours it may still be competitive.
A lot depends on how well the high speed system is integrated in the rest of the network too. Not everyone starts in a major city. If the transfer local train -> HST -> local train is smooth then train becomes even competitive where travel time goes to 8 hours. Even more so if the train service is frequent and easier to fit your schedule around.
Trains connect areas, not points. Don't forget that...
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Old February 27th, 2015, 11:49 AM   #1806
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But a bit of math tells me anyway Milan-Paris (by far the most interesting connection) will be something close to 4 hours, 4 hours and 30 minutes. In my opinion, too much to be competitive with planes
And a bit of geography tells me that the line is not just going to link Milano to Paris. It is also going to like Torino to Lyon, Milano to Lyon, Chambery to Paris, Paris to Torino, and further: Lyon to Bolonga, etc...

This has potential. If done right.
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Old February 27th, 2015, 02:45 PM   #1807
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Old February 28th, 2015, 12:52 AM   #1808
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Trains connect areas, not points. Don't forget that...
Actually no. Trains run from station to station just as aeroplanes fly from airport to airport. This is precisely what you dispute, a point-to-point service. Areas are only served by all sorts of road traffic.
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Old March 1st, 2015, 08:53 PM   #1809
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Actually no. Trains run from station to station just as aeroplanes fly from airport to airport. This is precisely what you dispute, a point-to-point service. Areas are only served by all sorts of road traffic.
A "point to point" service where the service starts within walking distance of my door. And ends within walking distance of most of the places I want to go to. I don't see air offering anything near that. And I don't see many air services with intermediate stops either. That is the advantage of trains: One service can serve a many destinations. And with network integration the number of potential destinations increases.
An interchange station where the Geneve - Grenoble - Valence line crosses the future HSL for example would multiply the number of destinations this HSL serves. Imagine being able to get from Geneve to Torino in two hours...
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