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Old Yesterday, 04:11 AM   #1981
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Exactly.
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Old Yesterday, 04:23 AM   #1982
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http://m.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/...-1227310932925

Ah yes that bastion of balanced and trustworthy reporting, the Daily Terror is at it again.

Only 16,000 people with 10Km of BC .

1. That actually surprises me. I'd have thought it was less populated.
2. Fairly compensated this should only cost a few billion.
3. Its such a silly proposition. The noise footprint from an airport isn't a nice neat circle. It actually looks more like a galaxy seen edge on. Kingsford Smith has noise contours that extend 15Km in each direction from the main runway.

The fun part will be the release of the noise contours. Which of course won't reflect the situation long term.

If this wasdone properly and fairly there would be a noise contract. A set of future and final noise contours never to be exceeded. So the airport has the right to expand and operate within that envelipe.

And then there would be fair compensation attached to that contract. With staging if necessary. Fair meaning more than just a bit of noisproofing but the option to sell as well.

And also if they want no curfew that will factor into the contract because sleep disturbing flights should be weighted more heavily into the noise contract.

Im not against the airport but so far we've not dealt with the issue of noise compensation properly.
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Old Yesterday, 07:21 AM   #1983
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Originally Posted by Terrier Tantrum View Post
Yeah, but its on extremely valuable land right near the CBD. It could be redeveloped to house who know how many more people.

And?
Should they move the Port of Sydney down to Wollongong and free up all that land for people to live in as well?

Have you any idea of the number of people who fly in/out daily for meetings and the economic efficiency gained by allowing this?

What you're proposing would see someone from Melbourne/Brisbane/Canberra be forced to fly into Badgerys Creek and then endure a 90min M5 commute, then they are faced with the same commute on the return trip to the airport.
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Old Yesterday, 07:53 AM   #1984
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I hope this never happens, KSIA could be downsized but I hope it never closes.. Shutdown international flights in the future but retain domestic flights, especially those in the BNE-MEL-CBR corridor.

The proximity of the airport to the CBD gives Sydney businesses a competitive advantage which would be lost if you forced people to transport from the new airport to the cbd.
I agree.
However there are scenarios where KSIA airport could potentially be downsized.
For instance one possibility is that the land on which runway 34R/16L is on could be used for port expansion (a large container terminal could be built there). Runway 34L/16R could be shortened to 2500m and runway 25/07 closed opening up land for mainly industrial real estate.
An equivalent set up would be something like that of Washington's two airports, Ronald Reagan National and Dulles Intl.
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Old Yesterday, 08:28 AM   #1985
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And?
Should they move the Port of Sydney down to Wollongong and free up all that land for people to live in as well?

Have you any idea of the number of people who fly in/out daily for meetings and the economic efficiency gained by allowing this?

What you're proposing would see someone from Melbourne/Brisbane/Canberra be forced to fly into Badgerys Creek and then endure a 90min M5 commute, then they are faced with the same commute on the return trip to the airport.
With the right kind of public transport in place there wouldn't be a 90 minute commute. I'm not talking about merely extending the current East Hills line via the SWRL to Badgery's here, but rather a true medium/high speed rail link. This might utilize all or part of the East Hills line corridor or it might use a completely different route. The goal would be an average speed of over 100km/h on the express service so that the journey between Central and Badgery's can be brought down to 30 minutes or less.
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Old Yesterday, 08:46 AM   #1986
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With the right kind of public transport in place there wouldn't be a 90 minute commute. I'm not talking about merely extending the current East Hills line via the SWRL to Badgery's here, but rather a true medium/high speed rail link. This might utilize all or part of the East Hills line corridor or it might use a completely different route. The goal would be an average speed of over 100km/h on the express service so that the journey between Central and Badgery's can be brought down to 30 minutes or less.

Potentially, but no such route has been proposed or budgeted for so it's unlikely to occur. We are talking $10- 20 billion for such a link
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Old Yesterday, 04:04 PM   #1987
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Potentially, but no such route has been proposed or budgeted for so it's unlikely to occur. We are talking $10- 20 billion for such a link
True, but lets look at what plausibly could happen if we ditch the assumption that the government has to fund everything.

Firstly there is a lot of interest in a fast rail line from the CBD to Parramatta. The economics of this are such that it could be funded privately. Fast as in around 13 minutes.

It is also possible that a private funder would want to extend this line to Penrith with a stop at Blactown and St. Marys.

It is also known that the government has plans to extend the SRT to St Marys.

What is needed then is a fast "people mover" from BC airport to St. Marys. Despite talk about extending the SWRL to BC airport it makes more sense to have a much cheaper people mover to St. Marys.

Or the SRT could be extended through St. Marys to BC airport.

Now your talking under 35 mins from the airport at BC.
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Old Yesterday, 04:47 PM   #1988
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True, but lets look at what plausibly could happen if we ditch the assumption that the government has to fund everything.

Firstly there is a lot of interest in a fast rail line from the CBD to Parramatta. The economics of this are such that it could be funded privately. Fast as in around 13 minutes.

It is also possible that a private funder would want to extend this line to Penrith with a stop at Blactown and St. Marys.

It is also known that the government has plans to extend the SRT to St Marys.

What is needed then is a fast "people mover" from BC airport to St. Marys. Despite talk about extending the SWRL to BC airport it makes more sense to have a much cheaper people mover to St. Marys.

Or the SRT could be extended through St. Marys to BC airport.

Now your talking under 35 mins from the airport at BC.
The sort of journey time we'll need on that St Marys to BC trip would be around the 10 minute mark if we want to keep the entire journey (including an interchange at St Marys) under 35 minutes. The problem here is that to cover a distance of over 12km in that time frame we'd need to be averaging at least 80km/h, and that's not possible with any people mover I've seen (unless you count the Shanghai airport maglev as a people mover!).
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Old Yesterday, 05:21 PM   #1989
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The sort of journey time we'll need on that St Marys to BC trip would be around the 10 minute mark if we want to keep the entire journey (including an interchange at St Marys) under 35 minutes. The problem here is that to cover a distance of over 12km in that time frame we'd need to be averaging at least 80km/h, and that's not possible with any people mover I've seen (unless you count the Shanghai airport maglev as a people mover!).

Ever been on the rail line from KL airport to the city? 160Km/hr A baby version of that.

(LumpyKoalaPoo)
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Old Today, 12:53 AM   #1990
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True, but lets look at what plausibly could happen if we ditch the assumption that the government has to fund everything.
I agree entirely! The business case for downsizing or closing KSIA can only be based on proper links to BC. Value uplift from the KSIA sale would have to fund a chunk of alternate infrastructure to keep the city workable economically.

And yes, KL expres is a good example.
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Old Today, 02:52 AM   #1991
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KSA has the best public transport links of any airport in the country. That's the low standard we're working with here.
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Old Today, 03:01 AM   #1992
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Does it?
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Old Today, 03:20 AM   #1993
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As opposed to? 8 trains per hour. Brisbane gets two.
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Old Today, 03:24 AM   #1994
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I agree if we are also discussing frequency.

In saying that, taxis can get to far more similar destinations more easily in Brisbane than in Sydney from my experiences.

In hindsight I agree with you though.
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Old Today, 04:11 AM   #1995
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KSA has the best public transport links of any airport in the country. That's the low standard we're working with here.
I'd argue Skybus in Melbourne is probably better, if nowhere near as capacious even as Brisbane's Airtrain.
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Old Today, 05:19 AM   #1996
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Which kind of proves my point. If Australia thinks a bus every ten minutes is a good airport link, I can't see BC ever getting the type of services people are talking about in this thread. The Airport Line is at least integrated into the commuter network and there's easy changing at Wolli Creek or Central.
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Old Today, 07:13 AM   #1997
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I'd argue Skybus in Melbourne is probably better, if nowhere near as capacious even as Brisbane's Airtrain.
If it doesn't get stuck in traffic.....
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Old Today, 08:34 AM   #1998
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I've only ever had good experiences with Skybus, although I've only ever used it off-peak.

The same with the Sydney Airport line. I live in the Inner West I can get to the airport from my house in 20-25 minutes, depending on interchange times.Taxi's are marginally faster, but more expensive. If i'm just flying domestic I use the train. Its almost like living in a real city......
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Old Today, 09:22 AM   #1999
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If it doesn't get stuck in traffic.....
Traffic in Melbourne or Westies in Sydney, take your pick. At least I've never witnessed a domestic happening while travelling on the Tullamarine. :p
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