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Old May 19th, 2017, 03:32 PM   #13181
s_w_stars
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsMRT2 View Post
Some details from the research done by our team.

MRT-3 according to WB, Halcrow, JICA, and other international studies is rated poor due to the following:

> The BLT contract
> Design was cheap being business oriented instead of passenger one
> Station location was decided by the proponent instead of the government resulting into being located near businesses instead of ideal location
>No standard and specific regulatory Authority
> System choice is poor citing these factors:

MRT-3
>> Designed maximum crush capacity with all 3 Phases: 1,200,000 pax/day
>> Designed maximum PPhD with the smallest headway possible with all 3 Phases completed: 45,000 PPhD (4 car)
>> Smallest realistic headway possible: 2.5 minutes
>> Makati CBD alone according to the studies would increase PPhD to 60,000

Now for comparison

MRT-2
>> Designed maximum crush capacity for Recto-Santolan alone: around 2,000,000 pax/day (est.)
>> Designed maximum PPhD with smallest headway possible for Recto-Santolan alone: 60,000 PPhD (4 car)
>> Smallest realistic headway possible: 2 minutes

Thoughts?
Thanks for sharing your studies. I highlighted my main comment which is "business oriented instead of passenger oriented". The objective is to move people within the city with more efficient modes of transpo which will have to take in consideration pop densities, route densities, and will determine distance between stations, headway etc. The "profit" motive (for the participating public sector) should follow that principle. This should be the philosophy behind all public transit infra projects.

Copyright your studies. If DOTr doesn't want to hear you out, then stage a coup and take over DOTr because the current crop of planners are bobo, incompetents.

Did you by any chance map out a system wide transit plan using google maps, drones to show how people from point A can get to point X,Y,Z using public transit, without using jeepneys, tricis, habal habal or smoke belching colorum buses?
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Old May 19th, 2017, 03:37 PM   #13182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s_w_stars View Post
Thanks for sharing your studies. I highlighted my main comment which is business oriented instead of passenger oriented. The objective is to move people within the city with more efficient modes of transpo which will have to take in consideration pop densities, route densities, distance between stations, headway etc in consideration.

Copyright your studies. If DOTr doesn't want to hear you out, then stage a coup and take over DOTr because the current crop of planners are bobo, incompetents.

Did you by any chance map out a system wide transit plan using google maps, drones to show how people from point A can get to point X,Y,Z using public transit, without using jeepneys, tricis, habal habal or smoke belching colorum buses?
Thanks. We wanted to clarify though that these are compilation of studies by international institutions such as WB, Halcrow, and JICA to name a few. As volunteers, resources limit us to this alone as we aim to present this at the height of the MRT-3 mess.

With regards to getting this across DOTr or any authority, we are already coordinating with both the senate and other agencies in aid of legislation.

P.S. expect a new infographic soon
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Old May 19th, 2017, 08:11 PM   #13183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsMRT2 View Post
Some details from the research done by our team.

MRT-3 according to WB, Halcrow, JICA, and other international studies is rated poor due to the following:

> The BLT contract
> Design was cheap being business oriented instead of passenger one
> Station location was decided by the proponent instead of the government resulting into being located near businesses instead of ideal location
>No standard and specific regulatory Authority
> System choice is poor citing these factors:

MRT-3
>> Designed maximum crush capacity with all 3 Phases: 1,200,000 pax/day
>> Designed maximum PPhD with the smallest headway possible with all 3 Phases completed: 45,000 PPhD (4 car)
>> Smallest realistic headway possible: 2.5 minutes
>> Makati CBD alone according to the studies would increase PPhD to 60,000

Now for comparison

MRT-2
>> Designed maximum crush capacity for Recto-Santolan alone: around 2,000,000 pax/day (est.)
>> Designed maximum PPhD with smallest headway possible for Recto-Santolan alone: 60,000 PPhD (4 car)
>> Smallest realistic headway possible: 2 minutes

Thoughts?
Did this study also cover what should be done to make it better?
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Old May 20th, 2017, 01:08 AM   #13184
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Anyone ever experienced or witnessed pickpocketing or snatching on the Rail Tranits of Metro Manila?
Or are they fairly safe to have your phone out in?
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Old May 20th, 2017, 03:16 AM   #13185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magniko View Post
Did this study also cover what should be done to make it better?
Some of the studies recommended some solutions but only applicable as late as 2025. We are trying to have our own recommendation, but as volunteers, it would take awhile to reach a solid consensus on what to do.
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Old May 20th, 2017, 04:35 AM   #13186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsMRT2 View Post
Some details from the research done by our team.

MRT-3 according to WB, Halcrow, JICA, and other international studies is rated poor due to the following:

> The BLT contract
> Design was cheap being business oriented instead of passenger one
> Station location was decided by the proponent instead of the government resulting into being located near businesses instead of ideal location
>No standard and specific regulatory Authority
> System choice is poor citing these factors:

MRT-3
>> Designed maximum crush capacity with all 3 Phases: 1,200,000 pax/day
>> Designed maximum PPhD with the smallest headway possible with all 3 Phases completed: 45,000 PPhD (4 car)
>> Smallest realistic headway possible: 2.5 minutes
>> Makati CBD alone according to the studies would increase PPhD to 60,000

Now for comparison

MRT-2
>> Designed maximum crush capacity for Recto-Santolan alone: around 2,000,000 pax/day (est.)
>> Designed maximum PPhD with smallest headway possible for Recto-Santolan alone: 60,000 PPhD (4 car)
>> Smallest realistic headway possible: 2 minutes

Thoughts?
The MRT-3 was a good idea but it was never designed for the benefit of the commuting public. The private consortium really got a lot of $$$ for this project and so did the administration who authorized the construction.
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Old May 20th, 2017, 04:38 AM   #13187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McMarco View Post
The MRT-3 was a good idea but it was never designed for the benefit of the commuting public. The private consortium really got a lot of $$$ for this project and so did the administration who authorized the construction.
In short: initial intention was good, execution is bad
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Old May 20th, 2017, 05:43 AM   #13188
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The intention was always the $$$ by the consortium of Sobrepena, Ayala, Campos, NBS, Ramcar plus the quiet Pres Ramos who executed the BLT contract. They are laughing all the way to the bank.

I think the reason Gloria tried to integrate MRT3 to LRTA before was to have it run more efficiently, but that is all forgotten because of Aquino.
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Old May 20th, 2017, 06:21 AM   #13189
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MRT3 siguro ang test case for a BLT/BOT/PPP/other alphabet soup gone horribly wrong.

Ok lang sana kung LRT2 standard o kahit LRT1, pero langya, meron U/G/at-grade/elevated, olats positioning ng mga escalators/stairs (perfect example - Ortigas ADB side),

Worst station design in the world in MRT-3 Taft Station (anak ng, major intersection yun, ilagay bang at-grade...eh di kinain mo -12 lanes ng EDSA, buti nalang 100% operational na NAIAx)...
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Old May 20th, 2017, 06:25 AM   #13190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by absinthe_888 View Post
MRT3 siguro ang test case for a BLT/BOT/PPP/other alphabet soup gone horribly wrong.

Ok lang sana kung MRT2 standard o kahit LRT1, pero langya, meron U/G/at-grade/elevated, olats positioning ng mga escalators/stairs (perfect example - Ortigas ADB side),

Worst station design in the world in MRT-3 Taft Station (anak ng, major intersection yun, ilagay bang at-grade...eh di kinain mo -12 lanes ng EDSA, buti nalang 100% operational na NAIAx)...
I can tell you that the MRT-3 case is still one of the most favorite examples on how NOT to do train lines under PPP as one they fastracked the unsolicited proposal of Eli Levin back then not allowing for a better swiss challenge and how the contract was fast tracked too much. Neri even said that the MRT3 disaster must never happen again.

Its a good thing though that DOTC back then bundled LRT-1 O&M and MRT-2 BOT which resulted into failed bidding and an ODA Loan instead.
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Old May 20th, 2017, 04:54 PM   #13191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsMRT2 View Post
I can tell you that the MRT-3 case is still one of the most favorite examples on how NOT to do train lines under PPP as one they fastracked the unsolicited proposal of Eli Levin back then not allowing for a better swiss challenge and how the contract was fast tracked too much. Neri even said that the MRT3 disaster must never happen again.

Its a good thing though that DOTC back then bundled LRT-1 O&M and MRT-2 BOT which resulted into failed bidding and an ODA Loan instead.
For the PH, ODA loans would be a better vehicle for urban transit lines. HOWEVER, it all depends on the quality of people working at DOTr. Based on their output since DU30 stepped on, they haven't got an ef.......g clue. The old plans are still far better than what they have come up with.

This is why I encourage your group to look at the old plans, use your data to justify why and where those urban rails should be and what type of transport mix they should have.
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Old May 20th, 2017, 06:09 PM   #13192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsMRT2 View Post
Some of the studies recommended some solutions but only applicable as late as 2025. We are trying to have our own recommendation, but as volunteers, it would take awhile to reach a solid consensus on what to do.
yeah. its almost impossible to execute the soonest. the way I see it. mrt bogs down every week to every other day now.

as much I learned the inefficiencies of a brt. I think the govt should go ahead bidding out the brt. I aint seeing the light at the end of the mrt3 tunnel at this point in time.

-----
my solution:
1.let the government have a new contract, rescind the contract made by the incompetent abaya. fix and have band aid solutions for the moment to lessen the hassle mrt3 gives to the commuting public.
2.let the brt have the go signal. as short and medium term solution.
3. let the mmanila subway commence as an alternative to mrt3. study also new north to south metro lines for more options.
3. study the mimimum life that mrt3 can offer wherein the govt will not be so aggravated so we can tear it up immediately and replace it with more effective and efficient transpo. preferably a subway too.

mrt3s woes have just compounded so much. I am beginning to think that its not safe to ride it anymore.

nagtipid sa sumitomo. edi binalikan sila ng mas malala sa pagkuripot nila sa madla.
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Old May 20th, 2017, 11:41 PM   #13193
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there's a more straight forward fix to MRT-3. Demolish it and create a new one to LRT-2 specs, and remove everything that was wrong from the original MRT that was mentioned above.
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Old May 21st, 2017, 02:55 AM   #13194
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Pag once matapos ang Manila Subway Line 1. Tibagin ang MRT 3 and reconstruct.
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Bulabugin natin ang gobyerno! Huwag tayong titigil hangga't hindi ito bumibili ng karagdagang tren at kumukuha ng magagaling at matitinong railway managers. Dikdikin natin ang gobyerno para diinan din nito ang mga negosyanteng nanlalamang sa kontrata at serbisyo.

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Old May 21st, 2017, 03:18 AM   #13195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baybum7 View Post
there's a more straight forward fix to MRT-3. Demolish it and create a new one to LRT-2 specs, and remove everything that was wrong from the original MRT that was mentioned above.
Obviously the best thing to put in EDSA is a heavy rail like LRT-2. That should have been the idea back then. If not, a massive double deck Skyway. But of course we should lean more on mass transpo since it is more of the ultimate solution.
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Old May 21st, 2017, 05:03 AM   #13196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timothy2170 View Post
Obviously the best thing to put in EDSA is a heavy rail like MRT-2. That should have been the idea back then. If not, a massive double deck Skyway. But of course we should lean more on mass transpo since it is more of the ultimate solution.


Quote:
Originally Posted by baybum7 View Post
there's a more straight forward fix to MRT-3. Demolish it and create a new one to MRT-2 specs, and remove everything that was wrong from the original MRT that was mentioned above.

This is where most of the group actually leans on a destroy and build for the new MRT-3 akin to at least MRT-2 specs
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Old May 21st, 2017, 05:05 AM   #13197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s_w_stars View Post
For the PH, ODA loans would be a better vehicle for urban transit lines. HOWEVER, it all depends on the quality of people working at DOTr. Based on their output since DU30 stepped on, they haven't got an ef.......g clue. The old plans are still far better than what they have come up with.

This is why I encourage your group to look at the old plans, use your data to justify why and where those urban rails should be and what type of transport mix they should have.
Actually we did from the old 70's Plan, MMUTIS, WB Plan, and the 2030 JICA Plan.
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Old May 21st, 2017, 05:51 AM   #13198
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Well if the State plans to "destroy" MRT3 and replace this ala LRT2, better Tokyo-san do this via ODA.
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Old May 21st, 2017, 06:36 AM   #13199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timothy2170 View Post
Obviously the best thing to put in EDSA is a heavy rail like LRT-2. That should have been the idea back then. If not, a massive double deck Skyway. But of course we should lean more on mass transpo since it is more of the ultimate solution.
I am actually leaning towards a subway. a free way on the ground and an expressway viaduct with a provision of a highspeed rail at the top. (covered with solar panels and with wifi access).

mangangarap nalang din tayo e lubusin na.
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Old May 21st, 2017, 06:38 AM   #13200
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Well if the State plans to "destroy" MRT3 and replace this ala MRT2, better Tokyo-san do this via ODA.
The group actually leans to either Tokyo via JICA or Seoul via KOICA if its gonna be ala MRT-2 which is a Japan funded, Korean Built System.
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