TRANSPORT | General (Non Metrolink)

[Kofieye]

Originally Posted by Motortownman

Why didn't you buy a system one daysaver bus and tram? You can buy it on the tram stop.

Also the single fares you are talking about.. One is a child fare and the other is an adult fare so of course there will be a difference.

TfGM stopped the flat child fare two years ago when they introduced the IGO card. In a great many cases this has actually redcuced the fare for many. And if children are using the bus every day then they buy a system one weekly ticket which costs about £7....less than 2 years ago and less than the 80p fare you mentioned. (X 10 for the week! = £8).

The IGO card has also brought down the fraud levels dramatically as anyone over 16 no longer asks for a child fare, so it's a win win situation.

Oh what rubbish. It certainly became a lot more expensive for me! So much so that Metrolinks ridiculous child discounts became cheaper.

I really hope the child tram fares are fixed at 50% of the adult ones when the smartcards arrive, because its annoying that the average is higher to pay for it! Some flo

[js1000]

To anyone on here who dares to try and justify children fares as fair:

Child bus fare in 2004: 40p

Child bus fare in 2011: 80p

Child bus fare in 2013: abolished - mostly over £1 in many cases (First £2 return for children)

So an increase of 120% over 9 years! Inflation rise from 2004 to 2013 is about 30%. And before some simpleton mentions rising fuel costs - that is factored into inflation so where the other 90% is coming from is questionable.

Thank god in areas of Manchester people are protesting by using rail or the new tram lines. Stagecoach recently made the 50 route from south Manchester across the city and have offered 50 day riders for £3. Why on earth Stagecoach think anyone would sit on a bus for well over an hour to get from Didsbury to Salford is another matter.

Finally bus companies with their miserable drivers are getting their comeuppance and I for one could not be more delighted.

[VDB]

They're always late too.

I always say; there should be a policy whereby, for every 5 minutes the bus is late (according to the schedule) the passenger should be able to demand 50p off the bus fare.

£2.50 bus ticket? If the bus is 10 minutes late - the passenger has the right to only pay £1.50.

It would send all the incompetant bus companies (First) to the shitter within about a week.

[WatcherZero]

Rise in child fares mostly down to them previously being below cost and the Government withdrawing the cash from local authorities they used to sub them along with other subsidy reductions such as the one for bus fuel the Bus Service Operator Grant BSOG.

In the 90's 100% of the tax bus companies paid on fuel was refunded, by the mid 2000's it was down to 80% (it actually went as low as 60% before that when taxes went up), then in the last couple of years its gone down again to around 65% with the intention it will be phased out completely and replaced with a grant to LTA's that they can spend as they see fit.

[mackenziesoley]

Originally Posted by VDB

They're always late too.

I always say; there should be a policy whereby, for every 5 minutes the bus is late (according to the schedule) the passenger should be able to demand 50p off the bus fare.

£2.50 bus ticket? If the bus is 10 minutes late - the passenger has the right to only pay £1.50.

It would send all the incompetant bus companies (First) to the shitter within about a week.

Unless you gave bus priority at every road junction with own bus lanes there is no way to ensure every bus is running exactly on time. Meaning such a huge reduction in cost for the passenger is unjustified. Its unworkable.

[Ralli05]

Originally Posted by js1000

So an increase of 120% over 9 years! Inflation rise from 2004 to 2013 is about 30%. And before some simpleton mentions rising fuel costs - that is factored into inflation so where the other 90% is coming from is questionable.

Your statistical base is so flawed your argument is dead before you begin. As Watcher says, it started out as a heavily subsidised fare so inflationary increases would need equivalent increases in subsidy, which the authorities can't currently sustain without raising adult fares.

[js1000]

Originally Posted by Ralli05

Your statistical base is so flawed your argument is dead before you begin. As Watcher says, it started out as a heavily subsidised fare so inflationary increases would need equivalent increases in subsidy, which the authorities can't currently sustain without raising adult fares.

Yawn... I suppose you're going to tell me those fares are cheap? Still ridiculously expensive.

[Mwmbwls]

Originally Posted by WatcherZero

In the 90's 100% of the tax bus companies paid on fuel was refunded, by the mid 2000's it was down to 80% (it actually went as low as 60% before that when taxes went up), then in the last couple of years its gone down again to around 65% with the intention it will be phased out completely and replaced with a grant to LTA's that they can spend as they see fit.

Very interesting - how will the grant be distributed amongst the LTA's - by population would favour cities and by mileage would favour frequent services - small dispersed rural LTA's would then lose out. I this some attempt to give the LTA's the chance to invoke the golden rule whereby "he who has the gold makes up all the rules?" - thereby putting passenger experience quality into quality partnerships?

[WatcherZero]

First you have to apply defining your geographic area as a Better Bus Area (you need letters of support from the bus operators in the area), you then get a grant of the existing commercial BSOG being paid out +20% for capital schemes (infrastructure). The existing BSOG is then phased out by April 2017.

The grant is indexed at the BSOG the area has recieved in 2013, the funding is guarenteed for 2013/14 and 2014/15 but not after that. Also the index will not be recalculated to reflect changes in the area (increase/reduction in services, change in cost of fuel/tax, inflation, etc...) so it will be deflated away with no guarentee either the grant will even continue past 2015 or be increased in future to match inflation.

[Ralli05]

Originally Posted by js1000

Yawn... I suppose you're going to tell me those fares are cheap?

No, I'm not. But they are fairer to the non-travelling public (Council tax payers) than they used to be.

[Fernando Partridge]

Originally Posted by VDB

Just got back from a night out in Bury - would have taken the Met all the way to Eccles and then walked but I live about half an hour away and didn't want to walk back at this time - so I took the bus from Manchester. It cost me £8+ with the Met to Manchester and then the bus to Swinton.

Not being funny now, but why can't we just tax the fucking shit out of car users to subsidise the living daylights out of public transport? They're the ones destroying the planet, we're the ones saving it. So therefore why do I have to pay loads?

In all fairness, I think cars or their drivers already have the shit taxed out of them. The problem is the cost of running public transport, particularly when you're paying a return for shareholders for the private companies running it.

[Rail Ranger]

This on Northern Rail's website:

News

Northern Rail Response to RMT Industrial Action Announcement

19th May 2013

Adrian Thompson, HR Director, Northern Rail said: “We are disappointed that RMT Northern members have voted in favour of strike action, but note that only just over one third of members voted yes while 63% of members voted no or abstained.

“The RMT claims that we are ‘casualising the workforce’ or replacing permanent employees with agency are completely unfounded and untrue. This focuses on two revenue protection contracts, one of which has been in place for 13 years, since before Northern began and the second was introduced, in agreement with the RMT as a 12 month trial to be reviewed later this year.”

“The RMT Executive has said it is now considering the result. We will update customers on strike action as soon as we have any further information.”

[WatcherZero]

There was a stike ballot on Merseyrail a couple of weeks ago, only two people voted, both yes.

[WatcherZero]

Following up on BSOG the thinking of TfGM and the Bus Operators on the bid.
http://www.agma.gov.uk/cms_media/fil...rea_status.pdf

Basically they decided to prioritise two things for investment, the core high frequency network and the young (so as to create adult customers in the future) however the rules of the fund and state aid rules prevent direct susidies on mileage, passenger numbers or age which makes targeting concessionary subsidy very difficult. Therefore they are going to prioritise funding on bus priority measures increasing speed and capacity on the busiest routes the idea being that if the Government were to cancel the funding after the 18 months guarenteed length then the routes they spent the money on would be commercially viable without the funding unlike if they spent it on rural services and then they were all cancelled in future after becoming unsustainable without the cash.

Specifically looks like the upto £17m per year will be spent on traffic light prioritisation, bus lanes and other urban bus route projects rather than fare subsidy, as the grant currently covers around 9% of operators total costs fares could rise a little. The other interesting thing is they are talking about the significance of all the operators having broadly similar child fares for the first time in a couple of decades and that it could present a once in a lifetime opportunity for SystemOne to launch a standardised product or readjust prices.

[Tony_H1]

The G4S are apparently going to be taken in house by Northern avoiding a Strike is the bunf I am receiving in my email is correct

So looks like no strike after all!

Probably...

Never heard anything about a strike on Merseyrail???

[WatcherZero]

http://www.rmt.org.uk/Templates/Inte...?NodeId=173844

[Tony_H1]

wow

[CHAPS2034]

Originally Posted by WatcherZero

http://www.rmt.org.uk/Templates/Inte...?NodeId=173844

So that's 100% in favour then......All out brothers...