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Old January 12th, 2018, 06:45 PM   #36841
Coldwake
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Even fast growing cities are having apartment construction far outstrip demand. The problem is the intense focus on "luxury" vs. any other type of housing. Denver has an interesting solution to solve for both the lack of affordability and glut in apartments: https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/...ing-subsidies/

Wow, if I was a developer of high end apartments, I'd be thrilled by Denver's program. I could keep rates at a higher price point and squeeze every dollar out of the building for years longer than the market would normally allow. That'd be sweeeeeet. Should really help prop up their building boom!
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Old January 12th, 2018, 06:57 PM   #36842
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What sort of a tax hit would this be on a city like Milwaukee? The money needed to offset high rent needs to come from somewhere. Could we say the same for private homes whereas these too would be subsidized in an effort to fill open stock? Interesting concept that I am not initially grasping.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 07:38 PM   #36843
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Originally Posted by Coldwake View Post
Wow, if I was a developer of high end apartments, I'd be thrilled by Denver's program. I could keep rates at a higher price point and squeeze every dollar out of the building for years longer than the market would normally allow. That'd be sweeeeeet. Should really help prop up their building boom!
Thanks for the sarcastic response. Next time, read the full article before doing so.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 07:49 PM   #36844
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Thanks for the sarcastic response. Next time, read the full article before doing so.
That wasn't actually sarcasm.

But I did read the article, thanks. Did you?

"Some housing experts said they are concerned the program risks protecting properties from market forces and doesn’t allow rents to decline naturally as supply outstrips demand.

“What you would hope is that excess supply leads to lower rents. If the city is pumping subsidies in, aren’t they going to be propping up the upper end of the market?” said Chris Herbert, managing director of Harvard University’s Joint Center for Housing Studies."
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Old January 12th, 2018, 07:55 PM   #36845
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That wasn't actually sarcasm.

But I did read the article, thanks. Did you?

"Some housing experts said they are concerned the program risks protecting properties from market forces and doesn’t allow rents to decline naturally as supply outstrips demand.

“What you would hope is that excess supply leads to lower rents. If the city is pumping subsidies in, aren’t they going to be propping up the upper end of the market?” said Chris Herbert, managing director of Harvard University’s Joint Center for Housing Studies."
Right, but you’re intentionally omitting the part after that in the article where they acknowledge this but say rents aren’t falling fast enough and people are currently being pushed out of the city and into the suburbs, particularly skilled medical techs and nurses who are in high demand at city hospitals.

I’m not saying I agree with their approach here, but it’s more complicated than what you’re assuming.

People are being pushed out of the city by high rents. What would your plan be to fix this?

(and don’t say “build more affordable housing”, because that would take years to plan and develop. These are people who need housing right now)
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Old January 12th, 2018, 08:00 PM   #36846
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Right, but you’re intentionally omitting the part after that in the article where they acknowledge this but say rents aren’t falling fast enough and people are currently being pushed out of the city and into the suburbs, particularly skilled medical techs and nurses who are in high demand at city hospitals.

I’m not saying I agree with their approach here, but it’s more complicated than what you’re assuming.

People are being pushed out of the city by high rents. What would your plan be to fix this?

I definitely see the conundrum, but a couple years seems so short term to me. I recognize that some people may commute further or they have to live in a smaller box for a bit. In the grand scheme of things, I just don't see this as the type of problem to throw tax payer money at when there are bigger needs I guess. Plus, it'll only delay the market correcting itself anyway. It's a little like not seeing the forest for the trees.

So I suppose my plan would be to just let the market work itself out.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 08:10 PM   #36847
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I definitely see the conundrum, but a couple years seems so short term to me. I recognize that some people may commute further or they have to live in a smaller box for a bit. In the grand scheme of things, I just don't see this as the type of problem to throw tax payer money at when there are bigger needs I guess. Plus, it'll only delay the market correcting itself anyway. It's a little like not seeing the forest for the trees.

So I suppose my plan would be to just let the market work itself out.
Oh, that free market “invisible hand” that lets Republicans sleep at night, thinking “all is well, since the all-loving trustworthy free market takes care of this”, although that “invisible hand” isn’t really moving society forward in any sort of just or ethical way, in fact its only real purpose is to cover the eyes and ears of capitalists who don’t want to have to deal with tough problems.

Better planning could have prevented this problem, and I’m not saying city subsidies of rent are a great solution, but the article did mention an important point: the large local hospital is contributing $100,000 to this effort, which basically is almost the same as them paying their nurses and techs a higher wage to accommodate for higher costs of living, except in this case they won’t have to explain why their wages went down after two years, when the rental rates have gone down to an affordable level to meet demand.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 09:30 PM   #36848
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Oh, that free market “invisible hand” that lets Republicans sleep at night, thinking “all is well, since the all-loving trustworthy free market takes care of this”, although that “invisible hand” isn’t really moving society forward in any sort of just or ethical way, in fact its only real purpose is to cover the eyes and ears of capitalists who don’t want to have to deal with tough problems.

Better planning could have prevented this problem, and I’m not saying city subsidies of rent are a great solution, but the article did mention an important point: the large local hospital is contributing $100,000 to this effort, which basically is almost the same as them paying their nurses and techs a higher wage to accommodate for higher costs of living, except in this case they won’t have to explain why their wages went down after two years, when the rental rates have gone down to an affordable level to meet demand.

I'll grant you that city planning maybe could have put artificial restraints on the market, for sure. I think it'd be interesting to discuss thoughts on "just" and "ethical" markets.

But, just out of curiosity... the way I am reading your first paragraph, do you not believe that if high end apartments buildings sit with high vacancy that it won't put downward pressure on the market rent?
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Old January 12th, 2018, 09:53 PM   #36849
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I'll grant you that city planning maybe could have put artificial restraints on the market, for sure. I think it'd be interesting to discuss thoughts on "just" and "ethical" markets.

But, just out of curiosity... the way I am reading your first paragraph, do you not believe that if high end apartments buildings sit with high vacancy that it won't put downward pressure on the market rent?
I certainly realize that in time the rents of these buildings will have to go down if they stay vacant and/or they will end up bankrupt (which they very well may anyway, since it sounds like they overbuilt for demand).
I recognize the basic economic principles at play, but when human (or animal) welfare is at stake, I deeply loathe the response of "let the market take care of it", when there is no such thing as a "free market".
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Old January 12th, 2018, 10:08 PM   #36850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milman13 View Post
Even fast growing cities are having apartment construction far outstrip demand. The problem is the intense focus on "luxury" vs. any other type of housing. Denver has an interesting solution to solve for both the lack of affordability and glut in apartments: https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/...ing-subsidies/
I fully agree with you that not enough affordable housing is being built. The continued focus on the "luxury" market will have its limits at some point I believe. But having said that, not all fast growing cities are having construction outstrip demand. Maricopa County is the fastest growing in the USA so here it's not an issue at all. Dallas, another fast growing area, is also not experiencing this.


https://www.azcentral.com/story/mone...wth/465736001/

http://techaz.org/metro-phoenix-expe...partment-boom/

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...d-expect-crash
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Old January 12th, 2018, 11:18 PM   #36851
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Ain’t timing funny?

http://www.jsonline.com/story/money/...et/1021392001/
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Old January 13th, 2018, 01:47 AM   #36852
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Eyes on Milwaukee: Washington Heights the Next Bay View?
Developer Ryan Pattee has seen the future and it's on the West Side.
https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2018/01/1...next-bay-view/

PS I do think there will be a dip in new apartment development but there's still a little room to run.
Washington Heights is already maxed out as far as potential, isn’t it? Bay View is interesting because there is still some room to grow/improve and it boasts a long stretch of storefronts/commercial space along KK. Washington Heights strikes me as being a leafy, affluent neighborhood while Bay View feels like its own community.

I think the ‘next Bay View’ will be West Allis. Maybe Cudahy.
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Old January 13th, 2018, 02:03 AM   #36853
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Friday Photos! Final phase of The North End moves towards completion.
https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2018/01/1...to-completion/
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Old January 13th, 2018, 05:47 AM   #36854
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Quote:
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Washington Heights is already maxed out as far as potential, isn’t it? Bay View is interesting because there is still some room to grow/improve and it boasts a long stretch of storefronts/commercial space along KK. Washington Heights strikes me as being a leafy, affluent neighborhood while Bay View feels like its own community.

I think the ‘next Bay View’ will be West Allis. Maybe Cudahy.
I really like Washington Heights but I don't think it has reached its potential yet. There are some nice homes, but the business district is a little uneven... it's been on a positive trajectory.

West Allis definitely has some good bones and in the right spot in the metro to reinvent itself. If it's going to do that, it needs to add a major new jobs center, snag transit investments that put it between Downtown and other corridors, all the while improving schools and perceptions of public safety. Unfortunately in this state, in this metro... unlikely.
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Old January 13th, 2018, 06:21 AM   #36855
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Quote:
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Washington Heights is already maxed out as far as potential, isn’t it? Bay View is interesting because there is still some room to grow/improve and it boasts a long stretch of storefronts/commercial space along KK. Washington Heights strikes me as being a leafy, affluent neighborhood while Bay View feels like its own community.

I think the ‘next Bay View’ will be West Allis. Maybe Cudahy.
I think the next hot neighborhoods will be Mitchell Street and Lincoln Village. They have some great amenities some really pretty old buildings but could use a cash infusion.
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Old January 13th, 2018, 06:57 PM   #36856
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I don't think anything is really maxed out until its gets to Third Ward level of real estate prices.
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Old January 14th, 2018, 07:59 PM   #36857
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Bay View is just about completely built up. There are some spots left for development but they are not many. Plus, that neighborhood/community is about to go full NIMBY. Especially east of kk, those homeowners won’t let squat be built if is anywhere near their homes. As for the next neighborhood that will get gentrified I mean excuse me developed, well that’s really easy to see. As others have said, Lincoln village and Mitchell street are primed for development. It makes to much sense too. Relatively low crime, good old buildings, access to transit, not to far from the lake, next to both downtown and bay View, Latinos not seen as scary. Basically what is happening to Pilsen in Chicago is what will happen to Lincoln Village and Mitchell Street here in Milwaukee. Can’t forget with the whole inner harbour project coming up, it just makes too much sense to tie it all together (walkers point in currently gentrifying). I don’t really get those who say Cudahy or West Allis are up and coming neighborhoods. No way, millenials want nothing to do with those places. It’s too far from the city and those places are just not cool. West Allis is literally the butt of most jokes. Cudahy, most people don’t event know the difference between it, st.francis, or south milwaukee. They all kinda merge into one big goop we call “by the airport”. But yeah, never West Allis, and I’m not even saying that to be mean. The perception of the place will not be changed anytime soon. They can try as much as they want, it ain’t happening. I know it’s a safe place with nice houses and plenty of good commercial corridors, but dirty stallis and it’s stallicats is something that’s ingrained into the local mythos. It’s just like parts of the north side of Milwaukee. No matter how safe it is, just being part of the north side elicits an immediate no from almost everyone in the metro area. Sucks, but what can you do? Oh and jsonline article has me more worried about the couture. Please, Mke needs the couture built.
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Old January 14th, 2018, 08:16 PM   #36858
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Bay View is just about completely built up. There are some spots left for development but they are not many.
I think there is a lot of long-term opportunity in creating a large gateway for new development in Bay View. Take a look at the map below. The entire top half is vacant or potential land that can be developed for expanded urban living. The Louis Allis factory is basically vacant and could be torn down. This is land that is directly east of the KK River and Skipper Bud's marina. A great location for huge development in my opinion and very underused just north of E. Bay Street.

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Old January 14th, 2018, 08:38 PM   #36859
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"Built up" is a misnomer in certain neighborhoods. Just because land is developed, doesn't mean it is developed to its potential.

The city really needs to remove minimum parking requirements, so that the wasted space used by parking can be transformed into better use and increased density.
Low density developments can be replaced with higher density developments. There's a lot of room to work in.
It may not be a popular opinion with some residents, but Bay View could do with some higher density developments. If the city was to go through a fast growth period, that could likely happen, regardless of the NIMBYs.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 07:34 AM   #36860
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I think the next hot neighborhoods will be Mitchell Street and Lincoln Village. They have some great amenities some really pretty old buildings but could use a cash infusion.
This would be fantastic. The architecture on Mitchell Street is very beautiful. Personally I root for the near west side, but it'll be quite some time before that area reaches its potential.
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