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Old July 22nd, 2014, 12:18 AM   #5901
Due East
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Originally Posted by crusty_bint View Post
son, dont talk to me about irony. thats irony.

you attack him because you don't agree with his politics. i couldn't care less if you disagree with him, why should i. i simply suggested you stop following him around to attack him like you had done in the couple of threads i had clicked on since logging on.
Well log off and put down whatever it is you are drinking or injecting.
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 12:20 AM   #5902
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doing a great job there, son. proud of you.
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 12:31 AM   #5903
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doing a great job there, son. proud of you.
You can't even patronise convincingly.

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Old July 22nd, 2014, 12:33 AM   #5904
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see, i can use em too, with the assistance of my barclays digital angel ere.
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The old coats are discarded. The old ice is loosed. The old seeds are awake.

Slip out of darkness, it is time.
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 01:21 AM   #5905
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Stop following me around then Crusty.

It's tiresome when you are subjected to this one-sided stream of garbage and conspiracy theory crap from Johnny and a few others on here.

If you think what Johnny posted is worthwhile and deserves to go unchecked then I have a fair understanding of where you stand on things.
I had brought the No Borders thing up in here few pages back, i just thought it was funny to see her down the front at the airport and interviewed on TV. She had been interviewed on the BBC too as part of the No Borders campaign a couple of months back. She never seems to be off the TV.

I simply said she doesn't half get around. I didn't say there was a conspiracy, just that she isn't as 'ordinary' as made out by that campaign.
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 11:24 AM   #5906
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Is she also another "ordinary lady" who just so happens to be on the Scottish Labour's shadow cabinet and first name terms with most of Holyrood? Apparently I'm the only "ordinary person" who isn't in the employ of the Better Together campaign...

Osborne announcing funding for Glasgow in a last ditch attempt to stop independence:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28404549
As pointed out before, the city deals initiative was years ago and Glasgow was snubbed then. At least by having this debate Glasgow will end up with extra funding of £18 mill plus £15 mill. So about £25 per person which I'm not sure will make any significant difference after the billions poured in from Holyrood but is nice to have
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 06:09 PM   #5907
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Originally Posted by DaeguDuke View Post
Is she also another "ordinary lady" who just so happens to be on the Scottish Labour's shadow cabinet and first name terms with most of Holyrood? Apparently I'm the only "ordinary person" who isn't in the employ of the Better Together campaign...

Osborne announcing funding for Glasgow in a last ditch attempt to stop independence:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28404549
As pointed out before, the city deals initiative was years ago and Glasgow was snubbed then. At least by having this debate Glasgow will end up with extra funding of £18 mill plus £15 mill. So about £25 per person which I'm not sure will make any significant difference after the billions poured in from Holyrood but is nice to have
Yeah and if there is a no vote what incentive would they have to hurry any of that money? If it's Yes the money will be dropped in a split second.

That was my argument in the City Deal thread, that if we became independent the country would have far more money to spend on our cities rather than service Westminster. 2 billion contributed from Scotland to Crossrail to use only one example, could be spent on our towns/cities instead.

Of course Glasgow can't exactly turn it down but i have better ambitions than to accept scraps, that is why i will vote Yes.
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 10:44 PM   #5908
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Originally Posted by heresjohnny View Post
Yeah and if there is a no vote what incentive would they have to hurry any of that money? If it's Yes the money will be dropped in a split second. That was my argument in the City Deal thread, that if we became independent the country would have far more money to spend on our cities rather than service Westminster. 2 billion contributed from Scotland to Crossrail to use only one example, could be spent on our towns/cities instead. Of course Glasgow can't exactly turn it down but i have better ambitions than to accept scraps, that is why i will vote Yes.
Show us the economic model that robustly supports your position.

There isn't one. To have a robust economic model the first thing you need to know is currency and governance.

We know neither.
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Old Yesterday, 12:44 AM   #5909
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We know neither for the UK as a whole:
Public borrowing was just announced to be 7% higher for the first quarter of this year compared to last year.
UK government is forecasting an end to the deficit in 3/4 years time, economists are predicting a ~£25 billion deficit.
The deficit reduction for 2013 came from a surprise increase in employment - not through any government measures.

If you can reliably tell me what government the UK will have and what interest rate I'll be paying on my mortgage in a year, or 2 or 3 then you could make a fair bit of money. We can predict, and make educated guesses, which is why there are only rough models. Currency union or pegged Scots pound will make very little difference to the majority of people - I'll still have to change out my Clydesdale notes when I go down south, people will still buy whiskey and oil, and our current public debt will still be serviced at the same rate. Mortgage repayments will still go up if BOE decides it needs to dampen a housing bubble in London. New public debt in the first few terms would likely be slightly higher than rUK but decrease over time (until 2050 when the oil runs out).
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Old Yesterday, 01:36 AM   #5910
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Originally Posted by bestbud View Post
Show us the economic model that robustly supports your position.

There isn't one. To have a robust economic model the first thing you need to know is currency and governance.

We know neither.
Well the Scottish government have proposed what you speak of though, we know what the currency will be the pound. In all probability a currency union will happen because anything else is not beneficial to both countries, not in the short/medium term anyway(rUK 500 million transaction costs for one). You will say we are asking Bank of England to be lender of last resort but Ireland was bailed out by the UK taxpayer, its an independent country as far as im aware.

What did Gideon have to say about it, lets see:

Quote:
Chancellor George Osborne has told MPs it is in the UK interest to join a rescue package for the Irish economy - including a direct bilateral loan.

He said Ireland was a "friend in need", a major trading partner with a banking sector closely linked to the UK's.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11807769
I have showed you this a hundred times but you probably haven't read it:

Quote:
The Fiscal Commission Working Group (FCWG) is a sub-group of the Council of Economic Advisers which is helping to shape the development of a robust fiscal and macroeconomic framework for an independent Scotland.

The members are Professors Andrew Hughes Hallett, Sir Jim Mirrlees, Frances Ruane and Joseph Stiglitz. The sub-group is chaired by Crawford Beveridge.

The Working Group will:

Oversee the work of the Scottish Government on the design of a macroeconomic framework for an independent Scotland; and,
Support the engagement with key institutions and external experts to help develop the Scottish Government’s proposals.

Reports
Macroeconomic Framework
Recommendations for the macroeconomic framework of an independent Scotland. Published 11th February 2013.

Stabilisation and Savings Funds For Scotland
Recommendations for a stabilisation fund and a savings fund for Scotland. Published 2nd October 2013.

Principles for a Modern and Efficient Tax System
Recommendations for the design of an efficient and effective tax system. Published 4th November 2013.

Fiscal Rules and Fiscal Commissions
Options for fiscal rules, providing international examples to inform the development of a Scottish Fiscal Commission. Published 4th November 2013.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Ec...-Advisers/FCWG
They are working on the framework of the economy(proposed currency union is best for both countries, plan b,c,d, are in the report), savings, tax and governance of an independent Scotland.

What has the UK government done in case there is a yes vote? Nothing! No pre-negotiations, say no to everything, lets just ignore it and it will go away.

Last edited by heresjohnny; Yesterday at 03:45 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 11:01 AM   #5911
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I'd like to point out that the UK parties are already gearing up for the general election next year but can't agree upon, nor tell us even, what powers will be devolved if we vote no in ~7 weeks time..

My prediction is that any powers will be watered down significantly and come with strings as currently so Scotland gets punished economically if we want to use them. Ie. power to vary tax rates but any extra is immediately cut from block funding
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Old Yesterday, 12:08 PM   #5912
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Very true.

Quote:
All three of our parties have now backed a further extension of powers at Holyrood. And while the details of our plans differ, they all include a commitment to drive more taxation and more social protection to Holyrood. We all believe that the parliament needs to have more responsibility over the money it raises, not just the money it spends, in order to create a more mature politics in Scotland. And when we talk of new powers we are not just talking about powers for Holyrood. We will be true to the central principle of devolution and devolve power down from Holyrood to people and local communities.

Our plans have been published. At next year’s general election, they will all form part of our manifestos.
Complete load of nothingness, not to mention a breathtaking insult. The Scottish electorate aren't listening or believing them anymore.

The powers to tax the Scottish people basically but no powers to stop welfare policies, trident, contributing to crossrail, hs2 and the rest. It has never been used for a reason, its electoral poison and will leave Scots poorer.

Last edited by heresjohnny; Yesterday at 12:15 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 12:27 PM   #5913
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So they got the go-ahead.

Quote:
Scottish independence: Orange Order 'pro-UK' march approved

The Orange Order has been given permission to hold a pro-Union rally in Edinburgh five days before the Scottish independence referendum.

Police Scotland had expressed some concerns about the parade but did not lodge a formal objection.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-28440218
Funny how when its the other side, the police and council do everything they can to try ban it.

Quote:
Scotland Ban On Pro Irish Marches Defeated

pushing back a nine-month effort by cops, rightists, and the local government to stop their action. In January a similar march was banned by the local council only hours before it was due to start.

http://www.wosba.org/go/scotland-ban...rches-defeated

Last edited by heresjohnny; Yesterday at 01:25 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 03:03 PM   #5914
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Originally Posted by heresjohnny View Post
So they got the go-ahead.



Funny how when its the other side, the police and council do everything they can to try ban it.
As they have done in Glasgow for the 'other side' - the council and police have been doing a lot to undermine orange walks.

Stop being bitter Johnny, its sunny.
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Old Today, 01:59 PM   #5915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaeguDuke View Post
I'd like to point out that the UK parties are already gearing up for the general election next year but can't agree upon, nor tell us even, what powers will be devolved if we vote no in ~7 weeks time..
As the current parliament cannot bind a future parliament, I don't see any likelihood of the current UK government giving any kind of cast iron pledge regarding new powers. Furthermore, after a no vote and thus with nothing to lose, I would expect the UK government to water down any new powers as far as possible.

Quote:
Ie. power to vary tax rates but any extra is immediately cut from block funding
That would look too much like an injustice. More likely would be replacing the Barnett Formula with a smaller block grant, while giving the Scottish parliament the power to vary taxation itself. There should be no free lunch, nor should Scotland be rewarded for blackmailing the UK...
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