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Old January 24th, 2014, 04:45 PM   #61
Jasonhouse
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^I have varied interests.

Doesn't matter whose money is funding the project. It's on public land, there is a duty to do what's best for the public at large, and a little league baseball ain't it on this site. And even if it weren't public land, this latest proposal still sucks and should be scuttled regardless.
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Old January 24th, 2014, 07:28 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonhouse View Post
^I have varied interests.

Doesn't matter whose money is funding the project. It's on public land, there is a duty to do what's best for the public at large, and a little league baseball ain't it on this site. And even if it weren't public land, this latest proposal still sucks and should be scuttled regardless.
A majority would probably agree with the proposed land developments.

Interesting to see the same logic? applied to almost every land use/development here in this forum.

Let it go to a referendum, I think the public should have a say.

The fact is, without outside funding, you won't see any change. The individual(s) who propose these developments will still have to work out the details to get this approved. They aren't going to give the money for some total different development here.
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Old January 24th, 2014, 09:07 PM   #63
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^Good, let them take their shit plan, and the money to build it, some place else.

there is no shortage of development interest in this site. and there is no shortage of investors eager to profit from developing it.
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Old January 25th, 2014, 12:44 AM   #64
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Quote:
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ALet it go to a referendum, I think the public should have a say.

The fact is, without outside funding, you won't see any change. The individual(s) who propose these developments will still have to work out the details to get this approved. They aren't going to give the money for some total different development here.
A referendum? What a waste of money, we elect & pay our representatives for a reason.

That said can explain the logic of little league fields in an area next to a casino as the other major hotel development. Not every rich person is good at business or is always smart. Look at the guy who redeveloped the Floridan in DT Tampa. He may enjoy having a 20+ story town home in downtown that doesn't actually have guests -- but because he spent $50 million on it all doesn't make his development a good idea or the most profitable. The belief in rational actors is what ruins most economic assumptions.

However, what Jason is noting is when he sells the hotel and gives the fields away to the county were left with a bad idea that will create problems & leave a massive opportunity cost for the public even if he profited.
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Old January 25th, 2014, 01:32 AM   #65
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Yep. Lost opportunity is what I was getting at, but didn't quite articulate.
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Old January 27th, 2014, 03:49 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmthurman View Post
A referendum? What a waste of money, we elect & pay our representatives for a reason.

That said can explain the logic of little league fields in an area next to a casino as the other major hotel development. Not every rich person is good at business or is always smart. Look at the guy who redeveloped the Floridan in DT Tampa. He may enjoy having a 20+ story town home in downtown that doesn't actually have guests -- but because he spent $50 million on it all doesn't make his development a good idea or the most profitable. The belief in rational actors is what ruins most economic assumptions.

However, what Jason is noting is when he sells the hotel and gives the fields away to the county were left with a bad idea that will create problems & leave a massive opportunity cost for the public even if he profited.
I was not suggesting this really go to a referendum, that was a reply to say, let the people put their 2 cents in. Realistically it could just be done by a poll on a Facebook page or something simple. I do think some public input should be given on any project there.

The fact that the casino is there should not have much to do with the fairgrounds development IMO. Not to say you would want to compliment it but they are their own entities and the fairgrounds should develop based on their own needs and not the use of a neighboring property.

They need to do something at the fairgrounds sooner than later although I go there maybe once or twice a year like most everyone else here.
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Old January 27th, 2014, 05:40 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Brian72
The fact that the casino is there should not have much to do with the fairgrounds development IMO. Not to say you would want to compliment it but they are their own entities and the fairgrounds should develop based on their own needs and not the use of a neighboring property.
??? The development next door draws over 20,000 people on a daily basis, and you dont think that should have any bearing on shaping development of this parcel?

You asked me before if I'm a planner. No. I'm not, but it shouldn't take expertise as a planner to figure out that new developments need to take existing neighboring developments into account. Especially one thats a huge tourist draw, and the redevelopment being considered is also tourist related.

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Old January 27th, 2014, 06:21 PM   #68
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??? The development next door draws over 20,000 people on a daily basis, and you dont think that should have any bearing on shaping development of this parcel?

You asked me before if I'm a planner. No. I'm not, but it shouldn't take expertise as a planner to figure out that new developments need to take existing neighboring developments into account. Especially one thats a huge tourist draw, and the redevelopment being considered is also tourist related.
They are stand alone entertainment complex', your not going to the fairgrounds and say, hey, since we are so close, let's now go spend time at the Casino. It would be a small percent that might do this and besides, the fairgrounds events are spread out and vary on the type, so that makes it less of an interest to visitors of the casino IMO.

I never said it should not be considered to have some commonality in use but let's be real here. A casino and a fairground are two completely different types of events so trying to make one complement the other seems not only impossible but unlikely as well.
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Old January 27th, 2014, 06:53 PM   #69
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Quote:
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They are stand alone entertainment complex', your not going to the fairgrounds and say, hey, since we are so close, let's now go spend time at the Casino. It would be a small percent that might do this and besides, the fairgrounds events are spread out and vary on the type, so that makes it less of an interest to visitors of the casino IMO.

I never said it should not be considered to have some commonality in use but let's be real here. A casino and a fairground are two completely different types of events so trying to make one complement the other seems not only impossible but unlikely as well.
You really think no one leaves a concert at the MidAmerican ampitheatre across the freeway and goes to the casino after? Really? Come on man stop arguing for arguing sake and get a grip.

It's not impossible because it already exists! They are already unified, our argument is that is one of the few things that works there so how about using the existing investments in the area and be fiscally responsible by complimenting them instead of inventing a whole new use that involves little league fields that could be built anywhere on I-75.

Also facebook poll doesn't equal referendum. The word referendum has a definition. Next time use a different word since your the old wise construction industry expert come here to educate us young sad liberal planner types I assume you pick the words you mean to use.
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Old January 27th, 2014, 07:31 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmthurman View Post
You really think no one leaves a concert at the MidAmerican ampitheatre across the freeway and goes to the casino after? Really? Come on man stop arguing for arguing sake and get a grip.

It's not impossible because it already exists! They are already unified, our argument is that is one of the few things that works there so how about using the existing investments in the area and be fiscally responsible by complimenting them instead of inventing a whole new use that involves little league fields that could be built anywhere on I-75.

Also facebook poll doesn't equal referendum. The word referendum has a definition. Next time use a different word since your the old wise construction industry expert come here to educate us young sad liberal planner types I assume you pick the words you mean to use.
I am not arguing, the fact that I present another idea is a total different matter. If you don't agree, go to the next post. You don't see me questioning anyone else's involvement here based on their views or comments.

I understand what a referendum is, we just had one here in Clearwater. The term referendum was used solely meaning that I believe the public would vote for it, not literally. Go back and read the context of what was stated.

It was already clarified what was meant and the suggestion of a FB poll as an example of how to easily get some public input was also non-specific. It could be any number of social media options.

Also, it was never stated no one would go from one complex to the other, the suggestion was it would be a low number. You don't go spend hours and lot's of money at the fair or a concert and then jump over to the casino was the point here, that is an opinion, not fact.

Last, it was never said there should not be a review of the proposed changes or public input. I was supporting the proposed plans and stating originally my approval for the use of the funds to be spent.
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Old January 27th, 2014, 07:58 PM   #71
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You said "Let it go to a referendum, I think the public should have a say." How has a facebook poll ever qualified as a referendum. You haven't "presented a different idea" you asked us if we had kids and said you liked it and that if it went to a referendum (or a facebook poll) people would agree with you. You argued the casino has no real connection (despite being w largest hotel nearby and the largest destination there). None of these are ideas.

As for what people do, I think many many many people see a show & gamble across the country. In fact it's why most casinos have theaters. My issue is the little league fields are a cheap way to get public support for land to build a hotel not much different than existing hotels in the area.

Lastly I question your involvement because your constant use of personal attacks and questions "do you have kids" "are you a planner" "liberals" "complainers" are just a few. Be the adult you are and continue to use arguments not name calling, until then I will continue to be personal to you.
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Old January 27th, 2014, 08:24 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmthurman View Post
You said "Let it go to a referendum, I think the public should have a say." How has a facebook poll ever qualified as a referendum. You haven't "presented a different idea" you asked us if we had kids and said you liked it and that if it went to a referendum (or a facebook poll) people would agree with you. You argued the casino has no real connection (despite being w largest hotel nearby and the largest destination there). None of these are ideas.

Again, I was saying that to make a point that I believe the public would support it. Later I suggested do a poll of social media to get input like they did with the St Pete Pier. Your just trying to make everything said literal so you can attack it. Read the context. I didn't ask you anything, I posted a comment to an individual. I didn't argue anything, I suggested these were 2 separate entertainment complex'. Furthermore, I clarified there should be consideration of them being close for development. The original post I made on this was in support of the funds being spent to improve the fairgrounds.

As for what people do, I think many many many people see a show & gamble across the country. In fact it's why most casinos have theaters. My issue is the little league fields are a cheap way to get public support for land to build a hotel not much different than existing hotels in the area.

So your against kids and little leagues?

Sorry, have to be literal with you....

Lastly I question your involvement because your constant use of personal attacks and questions "do you have kids" "are you a planner" "liberals" "complainers" are just a few. Be the adult you are and continue to use arguments not name calling, until then I will continue to be personal to you.
Calling someone a liberal isn't name calling if its not derogatory, asking someone if they have kids because your confused on their opposition of little league fields is fare, asking if someone is a planner because they have to critique every single project negatively and inject their own ideas as better. The real children here use expletives and other name calling all over the place, check for yourself.
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Old January 28th, 2014, 05:06 AM   #73
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...

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Old September 29th, 2014, 06:48 AM   #74
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So when I'm occasionally bored, I'll look up big projects in Tampa Bay, mostly ones that never panned out, or are waiting to, searching for info that I might have missed prior to give a better idea of what may come when/if it resurfaces in a better economy. So when randomly searching, I ran across this article on the florida state fairgrounds, an editorial, but nonetheless carrying important info such as the fact, Monday, the 29th, is a decision day. Typically, I find editorial's written by the steoreotypical old lady (hoping not to offend anyone), bashing development, complaining about the environmental effects, traffic, and whatever else. So it came as a surprise to realize that the term, "underwhelming" was used in the description of this proposal. And I agree, let's move on. Tampa seems to be finally getting off the ground and this would be a disappointing compromise to settle on a mediocre proposal that seems to present very little, while comprising lots of space. And this is a prime property, I don't care if we wait for two more years before deciding, but this has about as much potential as almost any property in the bay area and if we are going to get something big, it might surface as a proposal here...

http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/edit...t-plan/2199484
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Old September 29th, 2014, 06:20 PM   #75
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Source: Tampa Bay Times

Quote:
Directors of the Florida State Fair are scheduled to decide Monday afternoon whether to move forward on a scaled-back proposal that includes a hotel, field house and RV park at the fairgrounds.

The proposal by Republic Land Development is considerably less ambitious than an idea it floated about a year ago to also include such things as an athletic complex, a water sports park and a bowling alley, among other attractions.
More: http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgo...v-park/2199908

So not only is it less than what was floated a year ago, how about the original idea that seemed fairly fitting for the site. I even thought the scaled back one announced a year ago was not suitable, and now this?
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Old September 29th, 2014, 06:44 PM   #76
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RV Park lol
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Old September 29th, 2014, 08:09 PM   #77
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These losers are just looking for a free meal ticket on the taxpayers' dime.

"Hey, we see you have some land lying around at a prime location. Mind if we build something, anything, on it so we can make some easy money?"
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Old September 29th, 2014, 08:58 PM   #78
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A RV park? Really? I'm hoping they denied the proposal but I can't expect much. I hope the opposition is happy with mediocre.
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Old September 30th, 2014, 01:49 PM   #79
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Any news at all? Ironically this decision could have a lot to do with a Governors race in 4 years time
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Old September 30th, 2014, 02:13 PM   #80
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I have not dug into this much but an RV park could be very accommodating for those baby boomers looking to travel this way. My father owns a seasonal park in MI and its really clean and full of people looking to get out of the rate race. The Fairgrounds isn't exactly in an 'urban' part of town but I get the desire to do something big also.

Not really advocating, just saying its a lifestyle that might be worth catering too somewhere 'close to the interstates.
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