daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Continental Forums > North American Skyscrapers Forum > United States > Southeast > Local Forums > Tampa Bay Area

Tampa Bay Area Includes Pasco, Hernando, and Citrus Counties
» Transportation and Infrastructure



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 9th, 2012, 04:02 PM   #1
kmthurman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Tampa
Posts: 920
Likes (Received): 248

DOWNTOWN TAMPA | Straz Tower l 33 stories l 271 units l 400 feet | PRP

Straz Tower
33 stories
271 units
7,335 sq. ft. retail
proposed



--------------------------------------------
Looks like the city has put out RFPs for a piece of city land downtown. This time it's the parking lot behind the John F. German library and some ROW behind it. Hopefully we get another residential/mixed use building and a redesigning of those terrible streets and that section of the Riverwalk.

Here's the RFP:

http://www.tampagov.net/dept_economi...ibrary_RFP.pdf

Here's the areas they are willing to lease/sell:

__________________
I am new to Tampa, but I have a lot of opinions. Read more here:

http://newtotampa.tumblr.com

Last edited by FloridaFuture; July 12th, 2017 at 12:38 AM.
kmthurman no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 9th, 2012, 04:36 PM   #2
Jasonhouse
Senior Button Pusher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Tampa
Posts: 16,395
Likes (Received): 2462

ha... I've been bringing that up since Greco was in office. Except the idea shouldn't be to try and figure out what to do with that tiny sliver of land, but rather what to do with the entire block the library sits on.
Jasonhouse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2012, 04:39 PM   #3
kmthurman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Tampa
Posts: 920
Likes (Received): 248

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonhouse View Post
ha... I've been bringing that up since Greco was in office.

Nice to see someone try to do something about it.
See you say something here and it only takes a couple decades and someone might do it

Lets hope they get something like 40 floor tower ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonhouse View Post
Except the idea shouldn't be to try and figure out what to do with that tiny sliver of land, but rather what to do with the entire block the library sits on.
On a serious note. I agree with this, but if that sliver of land is dense and profitable enough. It'll be easy to convince the city to move the library.
__________________
I am new to Tampa, but I have a lot of opinions. Read more here:

http://newtotampa.tumblr.com

Last edited by kmthurman; July 9th, 2012 at 04:49 PM.
kmthurman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2012, 05:02 PM   #4
koopalicious
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Tampa
Posts: 728
Likes (Received): 252

I doubt we'll see any responses to the RFP. We've hardly seen development on typical, easy-to-develop parcels. What makes the city think something will come of a challenging site like this?
koopalicious no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2012, 05:16 PM   #5
kmthurman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Tampa
Posts: 920
Likes (Received): 248

Quote:
Originally Posted by koopalicious View Post
I doubt we'll see any responses to the RFP. We've hardly seen development on typical, easy-to-develop parcels. What makes the city think something will come of a challenging site like this?
I would guess there is interest want to develop this property specifically and that is the reason this city land got an rfp. You may be right, but I would also assume the land will be much cheaper to lease/buy than anything from those "Donald Trumps" of Tampa parking lots -- the Acardis.
__________________
I am new to Tampa, but I have a lot of opinions. Read more here:

http://newtotampa.tumblr.com
kmthurman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2012, 05:50 PM   #6
Jasonhouse
Senior Button Pusher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Tampa
Posts: 16,395
Likes (Received): 2462

This has a strong smell of being an impulse move/political stunt. My guess is the interest level developers have for this parcel will be comparable to the interest developers had for the marina along Bayshore.

And seriously, given the city's requirements...
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFP edited into list form

The City’s intent in the sale of the land is

1. to encourage the redevelopment of the site to help stimulate activity in the adjacent parks and museums,

2. to provide patron parking for the John Germany Public Library and

3. to help stimulate the redevelopment of the Downtown Tampa CRA

...and the almost useless size and shape of the subject parcel, exactly what does the city think can be built there?

Also, the RFP says nothing about continuing/ending the overhead easements for the pedestrian catwalks from the Poe Garage, to the library, and to the Straz Center. Do developers have to continue to provide such access through their project or not? (and if not, then why was a couple million spent on the catwalks in the first place?) Also, what about continuing to provide vehicular access to the German Library from the west? Does that driveway/alley have to be preserved?

My point being, if the service driveway has to stay, and some sort of ground level or aerial pedestrian access has to be maintained that cuts through the parcel, then the parcel is all but worthless in commercial terms. The most I could see being developed would be a retail kiosk/cafe on the corner, with a row of surface spaces oriented n/s next to the library.

Now, if the catwalks and the alley behind the library were vacated, something much more significant could be built. With that larger parcel, a parking garage could be shoehorned on the east end of site, meaning something like a midrise/highrise residential could be developed.

Hopefully someone with the city bothered to think this through for 10-15 minutes before they just threw an RFP out there to see if they get any bites.

Last edited by Jasonhouse; July 9th, 2012 at 05:56 PM.
Jasonhouse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2012, 06:03 PM   #7
kmthurman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Tampa
Posts: 920
Likes (Received): 248

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonhouse View Post
Now, if the catwalks and the alley behind the library were vacated, something much more significant could be built. With that larger parcel, a parking garage could be shoehorned on the east end of site, meaning something like a midrise/highrise residential could be developed.
Going to ignore the "Tampa sucks" blather and try and get into a discussion. The outline of the parcel pretty much says that they get to develop the catwalk/alley. that is what I see in the image. I don't know why you would assume not. Without that section of the parcel, you're right there is nothing to develop on the existing non-street land. Hopefully that will be true.

However, either way they do get the street area which makes it about the size of the lots that others have built on. Heck it's bigger than half the lots people want hirises on in Channelside.
__________________
I am new to Tampa, but I have a lot of opinions. Read more here:

http://newtotampa.tumblr.com
kmthurman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2012, 06:12 PM   #8
Jasonhouse
Senior Button Pusher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Tampa
Posts: 16,395
Likes (Received): 2462

^There's an easement running through the parcel which provides the r/w those overhead catwalks utilize. Easements of course don't end with a change in ownership, which means the next owner would be restricted from developing that portion of the parcel without getting it vacated.

The whole process seems out of whack to me. If the city is cool with vacating the catwalks, vacating the vehicular cut through between Tyler and Cass(obviously they're ok with this), and maybe even with vacating the access drive behind the library, then why don't they actually vacate them all, and THEN put the parcel out for RFP? My guess is they would get way more interest and a better outcome that way.
Jasonhouse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2012, 06:29 PM   #9
kmthurman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Tampa
Posts: 920
Likes (Received): 248

Fair enough on the easement. Don't know enough about this stuff, so maybe it needs to be incorporated somehow. No clue, just sharing the RFP.

As for this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonhouse View Post
then why don't they actually vacate them all, and THEN put the parcel out for RFP? My guess is they would get way more interest and a better outcome that way.
I would say that there are some people (straz, residents, etc.) who wouldn't be happy with that. Plus if there is no interest I would assume the cost of that might be a bit much.

We'll see what they get.
__________________
I am new to Tampa, but I have a lot of opinions. Read more here:

http://newtotampa.tumblr.com
kmthurman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2012, 11:03 PM   #10
TampaMike
Oh Hey!
 
TampaMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Tampa
Posts: 7,040
Likes (Received): 952

Considering that the city is running a deficit, they sell of city land and property is a good thing. I believe the old courthouse was under the city until they found someone to redevelop it into a hotel.

On this parcel, I don't know what of much you can do with it. Honestly, I would be fine with them removing that whole part of Tyler St anyways that is between the Straz and Library. Allows for more space to be redeveloped and could fit in well with the Riverwalk. Develop a plaza between Cass, library, and Straz, allow 2 or 3 restaurants (maybe one connected to the Straz Center) and overall connection to the Riverwalk. Still not 100% sure what way they will extend the Riverwalk north of Cass. Is it under the train and Cass bridges or over them?
__________________
Corporations Are People Too - Mitt Romney
For the People that dress up like Corporations.
TampaMike no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2012, 01:21 AM   #11
koopalicious
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Tampa
Posts: 728
Likes (Received): 252


I think there's just going to be a crosswalk on Cass.
koopalicious no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2012, 02:13 PM   #12
kmthurman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Tampa
Posts: 920
Likes (Received): 248

The current plan is to have the crosswalks they've had there. It's technically finished past the Straz Center. So I would assume Koop is right that they would just have a cross walk on Cass. That said it would be a great that if this section moves away from the river for that block it would have retail on it there and a development there can provide that.
__________________
I am new to Tampa, but I have a lot of opinions. Read more here:

http://newtotampa.tumblr.com
kmthurman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2012, 02:37 PM   #13
tampasteve
Registered User
 
tampasteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,395
Likes (Received): 258

Can we get the title changed to John F. Germany Library? Currently the "y" is missing in Germany.

Steve
__________________
There are only two days in the year that nothing can be done. One is called Yesterday and the other is called Tomorrow. Today is the right day.
tampasteve no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2012, 02:47 PM   #14
tampasteve
Registered User
 
tampasteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,395
Likes (Received): 258

Not going to happen. There is a sea of open space available in DT, why would a developer try to build on this spit of land? I can see the surface parking lot now!This is how I would respond to the RFP:

1. to encourage the redevelopment of the site to help stimulate activity in the adjacent parks and museums,
*I am going to build a surface parking lot that will allow patrons of the adjacent parks to use my facility.

2. to provide patron parking for the John Germany Public Library and
* My parking lot will allow patrons of the library and Straz center to park at a reasonable cost.

3. to help stimulate the redevelopment of the Downtown Tampa CRA
*My parking lot will stimulate redevelopment of DT by giving easy inexpensive parking options to residents and visitors of down town.

4. Time to build?
* I can have my lot built by the new year.


Keeping that area park space is by far the best use at this time. DT would be better serviced by more residential and commercial in a better suited lot, in the South or East of DT, IMO.

Steve
__________________
There are only two days in the year that nothing can be done. One is called Yesterday and the other is called Tomorrow. Today is the right day.
tampasteve no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2012, 03:21 PM   #15
TPAMAN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 657
Likes (Received): 129

IF they are considering another surface parking lot, I say build a small pocket park instead. Some people advocate turning empty lots to parks and some want possible parks turned into even more surface parking lots??? Welcome to Tampa!
TPAMAN no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2012, 08:04 PM   #16
Jasonhouse
Senior Button Pusher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Tampa
Posts: 16,395
Likes (Received): 2462

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmthurman View Post
The current plan is to have the crosswalks they've had there. It's technically finished past the Straz Center. So I would assume Koop is right that they would just have a cross walk on Cass. That said it would be a great that if this section moves away from the river for that block it would have retail on it there and a development there can provide that.
Thought the riverwalk was supposed to use a crosswalk to cross the tracks, but then was going to jut out into the river a bit, and go down and around the Cass St bridge? (kinda like they did at Platt)

That really sucks if the engineering proved too challenging/costly to get the riverwalk under that bridge.
Jasonhouse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2012, 10:14 PM   #17
kmthurman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Tampa
Posts: 920
Likes (Received): 248

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonhouse View Post
Thought the riverwalk was supposed to use a crosswalk to cross the tracks, but then was going to jut out into the river a bit, and go down and around the Cass St bridge? (kinda like they did at Platt)

That really sucks if the engineering proved too challenging/costly to get the riverwalk under that bridge.
Three letters: CSX Or else they would have built it differently. CSX said no build the Riverwalk where you are already crossing our tracks. Becuase it would require some work to the bridge, look how low it is:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=maps+...ed=0CAkQ8gEwAA
__________________
I am new to Tampa, but I have a lot of opinions. Read more here:

http://newtotampa.tumblr.com
kmthurman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2012, 10:23 PM   #18
kmthurman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Tampa
Posts: 920
Likes (Received): 248

Quote:
Originally Posted by tampasteve View Post
Not going to happen. There is a sea of open space available in DT, why would a developer try to build on this spit of land? I can see the surface parking lot now!
Lets see the difference between this lot arr many

1) Cost, my guess is if you're willing to build the right thing they'll lease it to you for $1. Far cheaper than the Acardi mafia's land.

2) It's the only lot that doesn't have a building on it and be close to the river south of 275. Closest lots south of 275 are over 1000ft away (at least three blocks).

3) It's across the street from existing density (Skypoint & Element)

4) It would be between a performing arts center and a museum -- pretty decent property if you can get it. See 1 and 2.

Those are just off the top of my head. Oh well -- doesn't matter we'll see who is right on August 9
__________________
I am new to Tampa, but I have a lot of opinions. Read more here:

http://newtotampa.tumblr.com
kmthurman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2012, 11:58 PM   #19
Jasonhouse
Senior Button Pusher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Tampa
Posts: 16,395
Likes (Received): 2462

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmthurman View Post
Three letters: CSX Or else they would have built it differently. CSX said no build the Riverwalk where you are already crossing our tracks. Becuase it would require some work to the bridge, look how low it is:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=maps+...ed=0CAkQ8gEwAA
The bridges are separate... I'm talking about utilizing an at-grade ped crossing over the tracks (which already exists if I'm not mistaken, so CSX can **** off), and then going under the Cass St bridge for automobile traffic.

Thought that was the plan at this point... If it's just going to be at at-grade crossing over both the tracks AND Cass St, then that sucks, bigtime.
Jasonhouse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2012, 03:09 PM   #20
kmthurman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Tampa
Posts: 920
Likes (Received): 248

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonhouse View Post
The bridges are separate... I'm talking about utilizing an at-grade ped crossing over the tracks (which already exists if I'm not mistaken, so CSX can **** off), and then going under the Cass St bridge for automobile traffic.

Thought that was the plan at this point... If it's just going to be at at-grade crossing over both the tracks AND Cass St, then that sucks, bigtime.
I think plans are a bit up in the air at the moment -- with this project and the fed funding making older more expensive plans possible. But the maps they've provided over the years had shown no changes to the area. I think development was so slow compared to their dreams that in the late 2000s the focus became on the sidewalk everywhere mentality and conversations are finally starting to shift back.
__________________
I am new to Tampa, but I have a lot of opinions. Read more here:

http://newtotampa.tumblr.com
kmthurman no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu