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Old December 18th, 2014, 03:31 PM   #121
tamparican
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Does anyone think the demand for housing will substantially increase enough to warrant the volume of new units given the amount of new residential incorporated into Vinik's plan as well as all of the other residential projects nearly completed/announced/approved recently? It just seems like there's a slew of new apts/condos being announced to prop up everywhere, yet not sure how much population will increase over the years to fill up those units.

Edit: Nevermind, quick search reveals that the area (and hillsborough/tampa in particular are on the upswing and should continue over the decades...

Source: http://tbo.com/news/business/populat...ange-20130922/
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Old December 18th, 2014, 03:33 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamparican View Post
The negative is the very article's title: "Vinik plan requires public infrastructure money? and the very first line: "The revitalization of Channelside will not come free for taxpayers." is a very poor depiction of the article that is otherwise a rather positive or factual one. It's almost like here's a positive article and our take on the Vinik Plan, but instead let's steer the focus of it's goal in the heading and opening to taxpayer funding even though it only amounts to about 2.8% of the total expenses related to this whole project that'll rake in millions in economic development and activity for the city as a whole. I just think it should've perhaps worded and opened the article better by indicating that YES there will be some taxpayer money involved albeit on a small scale when regarding the scope of the project, emphasize it as a smart financial investment if anything, rather than emphasize the requirement of taxpayers needing to partially fund this projec, since the article actually does a good job of explaining why picking up the costs needed are beneficial to the local economy. That was my 2 cents about it.
Ok, but I didn't see that at all and show me were we are spending 30 million of tax dollars and not noting that up front. That also highlight just before that the private investment of "1 Billion"....wow...30 million is nothing next to that but if I were a Tampa resident, its still going to be something I would want to consider...

If the article went on the suggest some idea that it was a waste or that we would not recoup the monies, sure.

I appreciate your perspective on this but still assert its how you perceive it...
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Old December 18th, 2014, 03:34 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamparican View Post
Does anyone think the demand for housing will substantially increase enough to warrant the volume of new units given the amount of new residential incorporated into Vinik's plan as well as all of the other residential projects nearly completed/announced/approved recently? It just seems like there's a slew of new apts/condos being announced to prop up everywhere, yet not sure how much population will increase over the years to fill up those units.

Edit: Nevermind, quick search reveals that the area (and hillsborough/tampa in particular are on the upswing and should continue over the decades...

Source: http://tbo.com/news/business/populat...ange-20130922/
I think there is far too little residential in the plan, hope that changes...perhaps with the addition of some more properties....
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Old December 18th, 2014, 03:40 PM   #124
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Ok, but I didn't see that at all and show me were we are spending 30 million of tax dollars and not noting that up front. That also highlight just before that the private investment of "1 Billion"....wow...30 million is nothing next to that but if I were a Tampa resident, its still going to be something I would want to consider...

If the article went on the suggest some idea that it was a waste or that we would not recoup the monies, sure.

I appreciate your perspective on this but still assert its how you perceive it...
You're right, perception is everything sometimes, and it's easy to see how the article itself could cause a bad perception to the general public unless they read it and educate themselves on the whole situation. I got the info from this article here I read yesterday:


"But Team Vinik will also seek taxpayer funds to help pay for fixing the street grid, stormwater work, landscaping and streetscaping. His firm will propose spending $25 million to $30 million on that and then be reimbursed by the Downtown Community Redevelopment Area, or CRA, which allows property taxes to be reinvested into the area they came from.

"We think the return on (public) investment will be very high," said SPP's chief operating officer, Jim Shimberg Jr., who was Tampa's city attorney before joining Vinik."

Source: http://www.tampabay.com/news/busines...vealed/2210519
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Old December 18th, 2014, 04:48 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian72 View Post
I think there is far too little residential in the plan, hope that changes...perhaps with the addition of some more properties....
I agree. Vinik did stress during the presentation that this was a vision plan, not a master plan, and will definitely change as they learn more. Hopefully, demand for residential will be stronger than currently anticipated, leading them to increase the height/density on the the Water Street North developments.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 05:35 PM   #126
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Housing was a little light in the initial presentation but that's ok. I like that they're focusing more on office to bring more workers downtown and into the channel district that currently has almost zero office. Between skyhouse, amazon warehouse, and the 660,000 sq. Ft. Residential proposed in the presentation your looking at adding another 1100 or so units to the district. Also if all goes well with the current projects on the table another 550 on harbor island and another 1000 in the CBD (make that 1300 if you include the 7 story whiting, jefferson, Morgan project), another 450 in encore, all in all that's about 3500 units hopefully in the next 5 years. There is still tons of space available for more residential throughout downtown and channelside too so yeah the lack of residential is of no concern to me
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Old December 18th, 2014, 05:40 PM   #127
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this is really great that so many other projects are already happening or complete. Encore will be hot for some private ventures. Tampa Heights is breaking ground, Crescent Bayshore is done, UT is growing, Straz!, Ybor has many great developments coming. HI, Davis Island, Channelside....West Tampa...wow, that's a lot of development right there....
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Old December 18th, 2014, 06:03 PM   #128
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Quote:
Buckhorn: Public contribution to Vinik's development plans will be 'significant'
Dec 18, 2014, 6:52am EST

Ashley Gurbal Kritzer
Reporter-
Tampa Bay Business Journal

The city of Tampa and Hillsborough County are prepared to chip in "tens of millions" of dollars in infrastructure improvements to Tampa Bay Lightning Owner Jeff Vinik's development plans for downtown Tampa, Mayor Bob Buckhorn said.

"The infrastructure costs will be significant," Buckhorn said. "We are prepared to help, in conjunction with the county."

The improvements include reconfiguring the street grid west of Meridian Avenue. Water Street will be extended northward, to connect with East Cumberland Avenue. East Cumberland will be extended to connect with Meridian. East Brorein Street, between South Jefferson Street and Channelside Drive, will be closed, as will South Caesar Street.

The money to do that work would come from the TIF, or tax increment financing, fund. TIF funds use property taxes generated in a specific area to fund improvements in that area. There are separate TIFs for Channelside and downtown.

The infrastructure work, Buckhorn said, "is exactly what that type of money is used for."
http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/...velopment.html
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Old December 18th, 2014, 06:30 PM   #129
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First post has been updated. Let me know if there's any more information you guys would like to be posted in it.

Also, I found a much larger site plan which is now in the first post.

http://***************/view/img/464821...rvision*xx.jpg
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Old December 18th, 2014, 06:33 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Brian72 View Post
Vinik and the SPP are really the only investors with the capital and desire for this property aside from baseball.
There are other players sniffing around that the public is not yet aware of.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 06:47 PM   #131
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In the 100 to 150 million range for investment? That's likely what the mill development would take. ..
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Old December 18th, 2014, 08:58 PM   #132
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edit: ^I don't know that. I only know that there are entities out there doing research on such things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamparican View Post
Does anyone think the demand for housing will substantially increase enough to warrant the volume of new units given the amount of new residential incorporated into Vinik's plan as well as all of the other residential projects nearly completed/announced/approved recently? It just seems like there's a slew of new apts/condos being announced to prop up everywhere, yet not sure how much population will increase over the years to fill up those units.
I think there's plenty of pent up demand. The question is, does Tampa have the jobs/economy/investment environment to attract the people who can afford to and want to live in a highly desirable urban area?

But like I said last boom cycle, from the perspective of residents, who cares if what's built is affordable? Once it's built, the prices will self correct until people can afford it.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 09:36 PM   #133
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The jobs that move into the area will sustain the cost to live there.

There are enough lower cost places already, we need some solid luxury residential and class A office space not to mention a 4 start hotel, better restaurants.

I may not be able to afford to do that often but it will be great to have the option...I also agree that the market will correct the prices and don't even think they will have to worry seeing what Crescent Bayshore made per square foot, this is going to be every bit as good as DT St Petersburg's Beach drive..
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Old December 18th, 2014, 10:30 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by tampamobster21 View Post


This is the best photo I could get of the green loop, which is the desired extension.
I hate this extension for a variety of reasons. The most of which is that it dossnt go far enough north, eliminates expansion as a consideration, and is pretty much defined by trying to avoid a problem that conversations with the legislature can solve.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 10:44 PM   #135
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I think it's neat they take it around the Ft Brooke Garage to the south, in between CAMLS, to get over to Marion St. I was just talking about that a couple of weeks ago.

But I think that loop sucks too. Naturally, it's centered around the idea of picking up workers from the core and shuttling them quickly to Vinik's offerings. But to me, if it's gonna be a short extension which ends before the CSX tracks, I think it needs to go right to the front door of the Glazer Museum, on the west side of Ashley. At least get over there enough to directly serve the park, riverwalk and museums, and be closer to the Straz, Riverwalk Apts, and so on... Otherwise, if it's just going to run N/S along Marion and/or Franklin, then it needs to go all the way up to the MTC.

As always, Tampa needs to take what it can get, but I don't like the loop considering how much it would probably cost, and what other kinds of connections could be made for that kind of cost.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 10:47 PM   #136
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I like the loop but would be happy to just have it go up Marion. ..save the money on the return loop and push it north. Make it loop back to itself in Ybor and connect the bus terminal and Amtrak.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 11:05 PM   #137
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I have a bit of an update on the street car. I live in Ybor and Commute downtown on it fairly often, I've made pals with many of the drivers and even the manager of the system. I spoke to him on my way home. These are the questions I asked and the responses, forgive me if I get some of the terms wrong.

1. Whats the plans with modernizing the vehicles? They've held several meetings on it and they're looking for funding, it is estimated to cost about 2 million in operation cost on top of the 1.6 mill they spend now. They're looking at using the same cars they use in Toronto as they would have no problem fitting on the current tracks. They would't have a problem making the turn at the Aquarium but the Turn at 13th and 8th in Ybor will have to be shifted outward a bit for them to make it.
They can sell off the heritage cars to places like Memphis or little rock and get some money back but ultimately they would still be on the hook to pay off their lease (he used a different term than lease but it's a similar thing) basically they're contracted to use these cars for a certain amount of time if they stop using them early they still have to pay them off.

2. Extension? As we all know there are plans for an extension, and it will most likely be in phases, but the route of the extension is not set, and down Marion isn't the only option and may not be the preferred option. The original plan was to run it directly down franklin, cutting through the little courtyard area between the hilton and that other building. The city owns that but they need (I believe he said) a 15 foot space to be able to pull this off which starts bringing it close to the land owned by the buildings. Then there is a plan to run it down Ashley (and cut over to Tyler I believe) to Marion and eventually to the MTC, and Another that would run it down Florida Ave and bring it near the MTC but not to it. He said the difference is whether or not they want to cater to Tourist or commuters, with the ashley line being for Tourist and Florida for commuters. He said they want to attract more commuters and that they have started talks about running the line earlier in the morning, then added "But our ridership now is 65% tourist" I asked about the loop proposed by Vinik and it didn't look like he thought it was a viable option at this point though he did say that the full loop would eventually go down to palm and connect with the final stop on 21st.

3. Would a new stop be added between Channelside and the forum to accommodate the new residence in viniks plans? Most likely no, a new station would cost 100k and they think the other 2 stops are close enough.

Tidbits, Viniks people have been sitting in on the past few meetings concerning the streetcar.
and though he's not sure he thinks the CSX they make downtown can be added to the current insurance policy instead of having to pay a whole new one.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 11:11 PM   #138
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I've been hoping they would rework the stops in the Channel District. They're almost all in goofy places.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 11:23 PM   #139
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It should be extended to the Heights.
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Old December 19th, 2014, 07:01 AM   #140
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Wow. F. The proposed loop is stupid and useless. Nobody ever will use it for business, lunches, I mean to go to ybor. Travel from con center to ybor now is around 45 mins if a trolly car comes around . Sorry but true talk and a lunch can't last that long.

loop could hit around gc on Kennedy. Or better up through heights to 8th then east to ybor

Edit. I agree it should move north to the heights area.
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