daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > European Forums > UK & Ireland Architecture Forums > City Talk

City Talk Local talk, activities, websites, etc...



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 15th, 2007, 05:08 PM   #1
Irwell
Registered User
 
Irwell's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 3,989

How do you define a city?

This is quite a simple idea. Please, though, no arguments about populations and the like, lets just try and reach some kind of concensus as to what constitutes a city. I don't want arguments and insults, just civil discussion and ideas.

My definition:
A contiguous urban area surrounding an urban centre, minus any other large urban centres within the urban area and the proportionate sub-division of the urban area surrounding those other urban centres. Adjacent urban centres would be considered as one for the purposes of the definition.

Simplified example:
Urban area of 1 million with two urban centres, one 50% of the size of the other, both equally central within their own proportion of the urban area. Urban centre one would have a population of 666,666 and urban centre two would have a population of 333,333.


How would you define a city and how would you limit the definition to include areas you consider to be within the city and exclude those you consider to be outside it?
Irwell no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
 
Old April 15th, 2007, 05:18 PM   #2
Erebus555
It's Sting. So What?
 
Erebus555's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bristol
Posts: 30,916
Likes (Received): 34

I stay with old traditional way. An urban area with its own dedicated cathedral whose title is granted by the leading member of the monarchy and boundaries are determined by government.
__________________
The UK Housing Wiki - Attempting to document every tower block, council estate, private estate, housing association, tower block construction/ demolition method, tower block architect, tower block construction company... etc etc, in the UK. Everything to do with postwar residences! - Please join and help!

EREBUS - OFFICIAL MOD CANDIDATE 2011 - BRITISH MODS FOR BRITISH PEOPLE!
Erebus555 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2007, 05:27 PM   #3
Irwell
Registered User
 
Irwell's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 3,989

Not all cities are diocesan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_st...United_Kingdom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Most "cities" are not, in fact, cities in the traditional sense of the word (that is, a large urban area) but are local government districts which have city status and which often encompass large rural areas. For example the City of Canterbury and City of Wakefield cover large rural areas. The largest "city" district in terms of area is the City of Carlisle, which covers some 400 square miles (1040 km▓) of mostly rural landscape in the north of England, and is larger than smaller counties such as Merseyside or Rutland. The City of Sheffield contains part of the Peak District National Park. This is however merely a curiosity and has had no impact on the general usage of the word "city" in the UK, which has unambiguously retained its urban meaning in British English. Residents of the rural parts of the "City of Carlisle" and the like might be aware of the name of their local council, but would not consider themselves to be inhabitants of a city with a small "c".

Equally, there are some cities where the local government district is in fact smaller than the historical or natural boundaries of the city. Four examples of this are Manchester (where the traditional area associated includes areas of the neighbouring authorities of Trafford, Tameside, Oldham, Bury and the City of Salford), Glasgow (where suburban areas of the city are located in East Dunbartonshire, East Renfrewshire, North Lanarkshire and South Lanarkshire), Wolverhampton (areas of the neighbouring authorities of Walsall, Dudley and South Staffordshire) and most obviously, London (Greater London outside the City of London).
Irwell no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2007, 05:41 PM   #4
Tony Sebo
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 18,252
Likes (Received): 10

In the US or Australia (and many other places now) if you want to be a city then you can be one.... I think that is the best way. Why have some ****** in government or a cathedral telling you you can't be what you aspire to?
Tony Sebo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2007, 05:47 PM   #5
Irwell
Registered User
 
Irwell's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 3,989

That's all well and good but where would you draw the boundary of what consitutes the city?
Irwell no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2007, 05:50 PM   #6
Tony Sebo
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 18,252
Likes (Received): 10

where the houses end...maybe a little further?

We are fortunate that most cities in the world do not bleed into each other, like the megalopolis that is washington/Baltimore/Boston.... or even, one day, Liverpool/Manc.... then I think culture and identity come into it... but then this changes all the time... so lets stay fluid on the point!

I get the feling this thread actually means something like the Manc/Salford issue, or the Liverpool/Sefton one?... again, I would say, continuous build up...mainly in a logical pattern from the centre, and most importantly cultural/civic identity! That last one means that for all the growth and government bias shown toward mancunia, Liverpool will always be bigger and better than 'Manchester' because there are more of us than youz!
Tony Sebo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2007, 09:34 PM   #7
Insignia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 947
Likes (Received): 0

it has a university
Insignia no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2007, 09:36 PM   #8
Unionstation13
Registered User
 
Unionstation13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Indianapolis/Lafayette
Posts: 3,457
Likes (Received): 35

my definition.
A city that developes around a center peice for city life. A city has atleast 100'000 people in the central city. And a million in the metro. To me, a city must have a good central life, or it is just a toss of urban decay and suburbs.
__________________
Peter- "Geesh, Meg is in there taking a nap under water!".
Unionstation13 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2007, 09:42 PM   #9
paulmat
▀∂NNED
 
paulmat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sheffield/Leeds
Posts: 11,653
Likes (Received): 24

Erm, not sure what you mean by that. 100,000 in the actual city (completely built up area), and 1m+ in the region?

I think a city must have a Cathederal (doesn't have to be big), a University, and a population of 200,000+.
paulmat no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2007, 09:52 PM   #10
Erebus555
It's Sting. So What?
 
Erebus555's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bristol
Posts: 30,916
Likes (Received): 34

If a city had to have a big cathedral, Birmingham will go back to being a town! Our cathedral is minuscule.
__________________
The UK Housing Wiki - Attempting to document every tower block, council estate, private estate, housing association, tower block construction/ demolition method, tower block architect, tower block construction company... etc etc, in the UK. Everything to do with postwar residences! - Please join and help!

EREBUS - OFFICIAL MOD CANDIDATE 2011 - BRITISH MODS FOR BRITISH PEOPLE!
Erebus555 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2007, 09:55 PM   #11
paulmat
▀∂NNED
 
paulmat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sheffield/Leeds
Posts: 11,653
Likes (Received): 24

That's why I included that clause. Both Birmingham and Sheffield have tiny cathederals, and I'm sure there must be other cities that have, but I cant think of which (Leeds maybe?).
paulmat no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2007, 10:32 PM   #12
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 13,144
Likes (Received): 5769

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulmat View Post
I think a city must have a Cathederal (doesn't have to be big)
That's silly, there could be huge settlements in non-christian countries without cathedrals. I don't think it should be left to the whim of the pope or archbishop of canterbury or whoever to define what is or isn't a city.
Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2007, 11:16 PM   #13
paulmat
▀∂NNED
 
paulmat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sheffield/Leeds
Posts: 11,653
Likes (Received): 24

Hmm. Suppose actually. I was thinking more in terms of the UK.
paulmat no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2007, 11:21 PM   #14
leonardhenry
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,195
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulmat View Post
That's why I included that clause. Both Birmingham and Sheffield have tiny cathederals, and I'm sure there must be other cities that have, but I cant think of which (Leeds maybe?).
I don't even know if Leeds has a cathedral, I guess it must.

It has a Roman Catholic cathedral, I know being as I am of that persuasion myself. But I don't think it has an Anglican one.

Surely when they decided that a city must have a cathedral to be a city, they will have stipulated it must be of the official denomination i.e. C of E?
leonardhenry no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2007, 11:26 PM   #15
majabl
The Northamptonian
 
majabl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northampton
Posts: 227
Likes (Received): 0

Northampton has an RC cathedral but remains a town.
__________________
Greater Dudley, OBVIOUSLY
majabl no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2007, 11:27 PM   #16
El Paulo
This is PWEI-zation!
 
El Paulo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brummagem
Posts: 1,101
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy55 View Post
That's silly, there could be huge settlements in non-christian countries without cathedrals. I don't think it should be left to the whim of the pope or archbishop of canterbury...
...or a Metropolitan! Brum's also got a Greek Orthodox Cathedral - I'm sure Manchester's got one of those too. The strange thing about Manchester (I think I've mentioned this before) is that it has it's Anglican Cathedral but as far as Catholic ones go, Salford is the most 'central' but some other parts of GM come under the Shrewsbury diocese, for example. So Cathedrals aren't as reliable as some other markers are.

I think that city boundaries are the first and most important marker, unless it is made meaningless by other factors such as the size of the built-up area surrounding the 'centre' - 'central London' is so huge that it has expanded beyond its original boundaries - in addition, the other 'centres' are so insignificant in comparison to the centre of that conurbation. But I think it is a case on its own as far as the UK is concerned.
__________________
BEARWOOD
A small child nestling contentedly between the two heaving bosoms that are Birmingham and the Black Country
El Paulo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2007, 12:19 AM   #17
Leeds No.1
Registered User
 
Leeds No.1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Leeds, EU
Posts: 24,860
Likes (Received): 623

Leeds doesn't have a CofE cathedral, but it has an RC cathedral (Small)

It is in the diocese of Ripon and Leeds though.

Also, CofE isnt the official denomination, as someone said. There is no official denomination. Its just the national one.

I would personally say a city must have a Bishop, and it must have at least 200,000 peeople.
__________________
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure, It is our light not our darkness, that frightens us"
Leeds No.1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2007, 03:38 AM   #18
Boards
Cunty
 
Boards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: In the Screaming Trees
Posts: 10,010
Likes (Received): 354

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwell View Post
This is quite a simple idea. Please, though, no arguments about populations and the like, lets just try and reach some kind of concensus as to what constitutes a city. I don't want arguments and insults, just civil discussion and ideas.

My definition:
A contiguous urban area surrounding an urban centre, minus any other large urban centres within the urban area and the proportionate sub-division of the urban area surrounding those other urban centres. Adjacent urban centres would be considered as one for the purposes of the definition.

Simplified example:
Urban area of 1 million with two urban centres, one 50% of the size of the other, both equally central within their own proportion of the urban area. Urban centre one would have a population of 666,666 and urban centre two would have a population of 333,333.


How would you define a city and how would you limit the definition to include areas you consider to be within the city and exclude those you consider to be outside it?
Whats your definition of urban centre? CBD/retail core?
Boards no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2007, 09:41 AM   #19
Biosonic
Second Citizen
 
Biosonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 14,473
Likes (Received): 76

Broadly speaking, I would say a city has to have a centre and a physically related suburb, and the centre must be dominant insofar as no other local centre contains the same central facilities and amenities.
__________________
Birmingham.Brilliance
Biosonic no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2007, 03:49 PM   #20
andysimo123
wind-up merchant
 
andysimo123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 15,969
Likes (Received): 47

I'd say the word City has a different meaning from what it meant when it was first used. There are afew Cities in the UK that are tiny. Some only have populations of afew 1000. Now I'd say the word City means to have some importance in the local area and also have a certain size of urban area.
andysimo123 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like v3.2.5 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu