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Old April 12th, 2017, 05:41 PM   #1
FloridaFuture
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DOWNTOWN TAMPA | 220 Madison | 12 stories | 48 units | PRP

220 Madison
12 stories
120 micro-units
Retail in place to remain
PRP

- Rents to start at $800
- Units to be 300-400 square feet











http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/...a.html?ana=fbk
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Last edited by FloridaFuture; April 17th, 2017 at 11:16 PM.
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Old April 12th, 2017, 05:53 PM   #2
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Is there a market for this downtown? 300-400 sq ft? If it is successful, great location for the city.
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Old April 12th, 2017, 05:57 PM   #3
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I think these will go pretty quickly actually.
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Old April 12th, 2017, 06:00 PM   #4
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Here's a Times article not behind a paywall:

Quote:
If you like tiny houses, you'll love these tiny apartments coming to Tampa
Susan Taylor MartinSusan Taylor Martin, Times Senior Correspondent
Wednesday, April 12, 2017 10:26am

TAMPA — You've heard of tiny houses. Now Tampa could soon be the first place in Florida to have tiny apartments.

Urban Core Holdings, LLC is under contract to buy a 12-story downtown office building and convert the top eight floors into micro-apartments. Each would have a kitchen with a two-burner stove top, microwave hood, refrigerator and dishwasher; a stackable washer-dryer unit; a bike rack; and a Murphy bed that transforms into a dining table during the day.

All of this in 300 to 400 square feet for about $850 a month, far less than for other downtown apartments that are fast becoming unaffordable without two occupants to share the rent.

"We think that there is a certain group of people that don't want a roommate, and this is a great opportunity for somebody to live by themselves, save on the expense of a car and live downtown,'' said Omar Garcia, Urban Core's manager.
more here

http://www.tampabay.com/news/busines...-tampa/2320009
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Old April 12th, 2017, 06:02 PM   #5
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I think these will go extremely fast as well. Great experiment for us.
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Old April 12th, 2017, 06:06 PM   #6
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I agree. Most of what's been put into downtown isn't really on the affordable side so this would be a great addition.
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Old April 12th, 2017, 06:20 PM   #7
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We'll be watching the city on this one. They better let it through with no fine.

Quote:
One potential drawback that could raises the cost of the project and the rents — the lack of parking.

"We will not have any parking because the idea is that the residents of this particular community will use mass transit, bike share, ride share and are willing to give up their cars in order to live downtown,'' Garcia said.

City rules, though, call for one parking space per unit, and Urban Core could have to pay a one-time fee of nearly $1 million because it can't meet that requirement.

"We are going to try to negotiate that with the city,'' Garcia said. If the fee isn't totally or partially waived, the rents could rise by about $100 a month
From the TBT article
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Old April 12th, 2017, 08:26 PM   #8
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I think the cities response with what it does with the fee will be a tell-tale sign of how truly committed the city is to thinking more progressively and trying to create a truly urban environment. The market should determine parking, not a city requirement. If it's that big a deal, people won't move there. Downtown, Channel District and Ybor City don't have enough viable free parking that developments not having their own parking the residents are gonna flood the streets with their cars. Either don't have a car or pay monthly for offsite parking.
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Old April 13th, 2017, 03:15 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1115 View Post
I think the cities response with what it does with the fee will be a tell-tale sign of how truly committed the city is to thinking more progressively and trying to create a truly urban environment. The market should determine parking, not a city requirement. If it's that big a deal, people won't move there. Downtown, Channel District and Ybor City don't have enough viable free parking that developments not having their own parking the residents are gonna flood the streets with their cars. Either don't have a car or pay monthly for offsite parking.
Exactly how I feel. Let developers put how many ever spots in they want. The market will determine how much they need. If they don't put enough, only the developer will suffer.

This project is the perfect example of a theme URBN harps on a lot: that mandated parking minimums make housing and opening up businesses more expensive. In this case, we have a project that by Downtown standards is "affordable housing." It's also an innovative design purely from a city planning perspective. But it might get killed off due to parking requirements? Crazy.

I'm glad that they provided the numbers. An extra $100 per month per unit if they have to pay the fine. That's insane.
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Old April 13th, 2017, 03:05 PM   #10
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The facts are, all of the potential residents will have cars and need them to navigate this area....not providing some reasonable method to account for that will just lead to problems.

You cannot back your way into making cars obsolete, there has to be options first....now there really isn't any viable to millennials, young professionals and hipsters looking for these type of residencies..

I get what you want to see here, how cars need to be shoved into the shadows so you feel like you are in the 'big city' but people need to get around and the car is there only realistic option.
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Old April 13th, 2017, 03:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian72 View Post
The facts are, all of the potential residents will have cars and need them to navigate this area....not providing some reasonable method to account for that will just lead to problems.

You cannot back your way into making cars obsolete, there has to be options first....now there really isn't any viable to millennials, young professionals and hipsters looking for these type of residencies..

I get what you want to see here, how cars need to be shoved into the shadows so you feel like you are in the 'big city' but people need to get around and the car is there only realistic option.
If you live in this building, work in one of the office buildings two blocks away, why do you need to own a car with a parking space? Five days a week you can walk to work and anything you want to eat is also a few blocks away. If you have to go the Publix for shopping (not too far but I wouldn't do it in August) take an Uber. Once a week to the grocery store doesn't justify the need to mandate parking. Or, just have your groceries or anything you want delivered directly to you. Suburban retail is dying at an unexpectedly quick rate the past decade because technology is making the need to get into a car to drive somewhere to do your shopping obsolete.
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Old April 13th, 2017, 03:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian72 View Post
The facts are, all of the potential residents will have cars and need them to navigate this area....not providing some reasonable method to account for that will just lead to problems.

You cannot back your way into making cars obsolete, there has to be options first....now there really isn't any viable to millennials, young professionals and hipsters looking for these type of residencies..

I get what you want to see here, how cars need to be shoved into the shadows so you feel like you are in the 'big city' but people need to get around and the car is there only realistic option.
I get what you want to believe ... that everyone owns or leases a vehicle in this city and stores in in the same building they live but even in Tampa it's not true.

Here are some examples: there are entire census tracts in Tampa (almost all near downtown) where nearly 30% of household don't have a car. Most students (a likely target of these apartments) cant even allowed to have a car where they are. Over 5% of downtown r side to currently don't own a car, meaning more people already live downtown without one than would move into these buildings.

Also, I hate to break this to you but there 20k public spaces and free on street parking overnight throughout all of downtown. There is more parking available to these people than in ANY suburb. If you wanted 10 cars and can afford it you can park them all downtown and live in a tiny apartment to make up for The cost of your fleet.

So yeah, let the market decide and stop trying to force developers to build more space for these people's car than they are building for them to live in.
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Old April 13th, 2017, 03:39 PM   #13
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Simply put, if you have a car and want to park it right where you live, then you won't want to rent an apartment in this building. And you always have the option to rent a parking space somewhere nearby. That's what my friends in Atlanta do.
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Old April 13th, 2017, 05:53 PM   #14
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From Brian's response:


I normally move towards agreeing with your POV on let the market dictate demand and adjust, but apparently I can't take your posts seriously anymore. I say we give this a shot, if it fails some other developer can scoop up for a low price, build parking and cash out. However, I think this would actually work and be replicated.
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Old April 14th, 2017, 01:16 PM   #15
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I LOVE this idea. I do believe there is a market for it. Finally, there will be downtown apartments that start out at less than $1,000 per month. With Uber and such, it is feasible, now, to not have a car and still be independent. In ten years (which is right around the corner), when companies like Uber have autonomous vehicles on the road, a paradigm shift of "car membership" instead of "car ownership" will sweep the urban areas, and parking will become even less of an issue.
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Old April 14th, 2017, 04:01 PM   #16
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Interesting replies...so I guess I don't need to worry about all the other activities in my life...as long as I can walk to a work, if that is were I work, and there are a few cool hip retail establishments....

I NEVER will need to go to a Target, kids event, mall, another county, airport, dentist, large grocery, doctor appointment, anything else for that matter....gimme a break..not to mention all of you here have a car and use them daily....but somhow, if we try to ban the car for certain locations, other modes are going to come...this isn't how it works guys....transportation happens based on density and a few nicely put dense locations in a pocket don't make regional transportation appear.
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Old April 14th, 2017, 04:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian72 View Post
Interesting replies...so I guess I don't need to worry about all the other activities in my life...as long as I can walk to a work, if that is were I work, and there are a few cool hip retail establishments....

I NEVER will need to go to a Target, kids event, mall, another county, airport, dentist, large grocery, doctor appointment, anything else for that matter....gimme a break..not to mention all of you here have a car and use them daily....but somhow, if we try to ban the car for certain locations, other modes are going to come...this isn't how it works guys....transportation happens based on density and a few nicely put dense locations in a pocket don't make regional transportation appear.
I agree that most people in 2017 in Tampa still need a car, but I would say there is still a small but growing market for this kind of dwelling. There are some single, 20-something year olds who would prefer to spend money on an "Urban" dwelling rather than spend money on gas, insurance, and car payments. I lived in Boston for 5 years, and I was the only one amongst my friends who had a car. Of course, the public transportation is quite good there, but my friends without cars still ran into the exact issues that you stated in your reply -- there were times when they needed to go to the suburbs and shop for larger items that could not be carried on the subway. Then Zip car came into being, and most of them got zip car memberships.
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Old April 14th, 2017, 04:41 PM   #18
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For those interested, this building was built in 1962. I thought it was actually newer than that.

https://www.commercialsearch.com/lis...62CTK75GP4CB4#!
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Old April 14th, 2017, 05:47 PM   #19
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I don't think anyone is saying they won't do any of that. The real question is why force the developer to include parking? Let the resident choose if they want a car. If they do, then they can find somewhere close by to park and pay. It's the Freedom of the choice that is the issue IMO.
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Old April 14th, 2017, 07:03 PM   #20
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Also UT is perpetually short on housing and this proposal is a few blocks away from campus. I'd bet plenty of UT students would live here. If they aren't forced to have a car in a dorm, why force them to have one here?
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