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Old December 22nd, 2014, 11:04 PM   #181
FloridaFuture
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^The point was DT Miami isn't that great. My post was unclear, it's not the best in the state. Miami is merely the biggest name to an out of towner.
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 11:11 PM   #182
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I figured he was speaking from the perspective of investors/developers.


And if the DT Miami area isn't the most complete downtown in the state, then I don't know which one is. Orlando is probably 2nd at this point, based on recent and ongoing infrastructure investments.
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 11:11 PM   #183
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So aside from redevelopment of some of the core downtown, the next target area would be north of Whiting up to Cass east of Florida. Is there any height restrictions for these blocks? Seems like this will be a hot spot once Vinik's developments start to unfold.
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 11:16 PM   #184
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^In that zone, the allowed height goes up as you go north, and up as you go west from roughly Meridian/Selmon.

I'm totally spit balling here, but I think at the far NW corner of that zone, which would be the block on the SE corner of Cass and Florida, the max allowed height is probably around 650ft or maybe a bit more. At the other end, say Whiting and the Selmon, the limit is probably more like 375ft or so.
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Old December 23rd, 2014, 12:06 AM   #185
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I actually prefer Orlando's DT to Miami's for the record. Miami lacks foot traffic in DT and is still very car oriented. I find Orlando more enjoyable on the street level, but Miami is also A LOT bigger.

I would love to see Franklin, from the old Maas building site on up really grow and have a real residential base (as we are seeing) but get some new record heights up there with some office and mixed use buildings. That will take years though to see but any real additions to the skyline will probably come from that area (would love to see the Maas site become something special).
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Old December 23rd, 2014, 12:09 AM   #186
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Going north is the best development option. Cheap land and very old buildings, most not worth saving. Probably the best chance of downtown growing to have an Uptown someday.
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Old December 23rd, 2014, 12:15 AM   #187
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Basically DT can grow up to the Heights and that will help create an incredibly cool neighborhood there...one day.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 04:58 AM   #188
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Overall I think it's a good project and while I don't doubt it will gather dust with Vinik at the helm and the money in place. I do think it was overhyped for what it is.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 07:31 PM   #189
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^Tampa in general has a track record of overhyping itself and thinking it's better/more important than it actually is.

Sort of a dichotomy, since at the same time, the city also has a long track record of pursuing its stated ambitions in highly half-assed ways which tend to not work well, or have to be redone the right way at considerable added cost.
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Old December 28th, 2014, 02:52 AM   #190
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Shit, this is a big deal, especially for a city this size and what it currently has to offer. Only a philanthropist like Vinik would take such a risk and invest so much into Tampa in its current state. This will transform downtown. ..
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Old December 28th, 2014, 03:04 AM   #191
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Every city says they're the next great city. This isn't something exclusive to Tampa and even if it was i like a little bit of swagger.
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Old December 28th, 2014, 05:11 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian72 View Post
Shit, this is a big deal, especially for a city this size and what it currently has to offer. Only a philanthropist like Vinik would take such a risk and invest so much into Tampa in its current state. This will transform downtown. ..
Downtown is transforming anyways. There has already been multiple billions invested in the DT area, and there's more to come whether Vinik invests or not. Vinik's project isn't a silver bullet, it's another piece of a much larger puzzle.

Basically what I'm saying is, people are giving Vinik a bit too much credit imho. It's really not his vision. He's capitalizing on the vision set forth by a lot of people 10-20-30 years ago.

And if you look around, this isn't the only large urban redevelopment project going on in the US. I'm not even sure if it's in the top 10.
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Old December 28th, 2014, 01:51 PM   #193
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Forget about the rest of the US. Taking empty parking lots, assembling all the parcels and building this amount of development all under one single development team is much more significant than you are willing to acknowledge for some reason. How can you not see the remarkable difference from the bare wasteland there now to what will be? Aside from some development on chanelside, some decent parks and trails, what other transformation is happening that is so significant? Further, out of that list, which of those were you even positive about!?
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Old December 28th, 2014, 04:28 PM   #194
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^Simple. I have significantly higher demands of the community I invest my time and money into than the typical resident of this region does.

While the booster types trumpet empty parking lots being turned into moderately intense mid-rise type development as being a clear sign that Tampa is on the verge of becoming the greatest city on Earth any day now, I would be content simply knowing which peer cities Vinik's "transformational" project vaults Tampa past in terms of perception, urban offerings, economic output (you pick the tangible metric).
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Old December 28th, 2014, 07:43 PM   #195
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Vinik isn't much of a trailblazer with what he wants to do and this project won't transform all of downtown but the nice thing is is it doesn't have too. It's a nice project and not only that it's a LARGE project developing a wasteland that would have (and has) taken individual developers much longer with less success. On top of that, the fact this is all getting redone at once by once person means we get things like reconnecting the street grid and a DT med school that we otherwise wouldn't of gotten. So, take this for what it is: a nice project that will make a nice neighborhood and make surrounding neighborhoods better. If you treat it is as more, the savior of a city, not only will you be disappointed but some of the more debbie downer people on here will snark at you.
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Old December 28th, 2014, 10:07 PM   #196
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I couldn't even read the entire reply. When I see 'jason' named on a project, I will sure to critique it appropriately.
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Old December 28th, 2014, 10:08 PM   #197
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Savior of the city? So dramatic, is anyone here straight? ...
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Old December 28th, 2014, 11:53 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaFuture View Post
Vinik isn't much of a trailblazer with what he wants to do and this project won't transform all of downtown but the nice thing is is it doesn't have too. It's a nice project and not only that it's a LARGE project developing a wasteland that would have (and has) taken individual developers much longer with less success. On top of that, the fact this is all getting redone at once by once person means we get things like reconnecting the street grid and a DT med school that we otherwise wouldn't of gotten. So, take this for what it is: a nice project that will make a nice neighborhood and make surrounding neighborhoods better.
Right on.

Except Vinik didn't have much do with the med school, beyond offering to locate it where it's most profitable for him. (free land is great, but it's not like he did it for altruistic reasons or something. The med school will help drive demand for his residential and retail offerings.)

What Vinik is up to is truly exciting, but c'mon man, Tampa is going to have the same overarching issues after his project, that it has before his project. (namely the worst prevailing wages of any comparable city in the US, and the worst transit network of any comparable city in pretty much the entire developed world. If you can name a metro of 3+ million in a developed country with worse transit than Tampa, I'll buy you lunch.)
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Old December 29th, 2014, 12:00 AM   #199
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Dude, move already. Your truly impossible.
I say that in the most pro Tampa way possible. .
Of course jobs such as retail, hospitality, recreational or services trades are not high on the list but god damn people are here because it's Fing Florida. People blow their wad to spend a week here so get over it. Your constant comparing of this area to others is insane. Go live in Seattle with 2 months of nice weather. ..life is too short to spend it that way. ..
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Old December 29th, 2014, 12:09 AM   #200
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As soon as my ******* neck heals I am, trust me. I was supposed to be out of here 2 months ago, and at this point, it has cost me a job and almost $20k in income.

Sorry for being such a crank these days. Being unable to drive, and living in a city with no alternative to driving will do that.
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