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Old October 31st, 2012, 06:57 AM   #21
John_Proctor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiescraperman View Post
thanks for the clarification. what does the LGA figure of 96,000 include?
Melbourne LGA includes effectively St Kilda Road, Southbank, Dockland, Melbourne, East Melbourne, Carlton, North Melbourne, West Melborune, Parkville, Kensington.

also Manhattan is an island of about 30km x 6km I think. size wise its 2 million residents are in an area.

In the context of the big two Aussie cities it woudl be:
Melbourne - CBD to Monash
Sydney - Sydney to Paramatta (or say the Airport through the CBD to Chatswood)

Now not wanting to place too fine a point on it but the populations of Melbourne, Stonnington, Monash LGA's add up to about 500,000 so not as ridiculously out of touch as you may have considered.

I guess that the Sydney corridors I've noted above would be closer to 1 million population
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Old October 31st, 2012, 07:23 AM   #22
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Brisbane CBD was originally planned to encompass the entire city square which has also been addressed in the CBD masterplan. This takes in the traditional Boundary Street West End, Vulture Street, Main Street and Boundary Street Spring Hill to make a near perfect square. The traditional square is about 5.34 square kilometres.


I love how on the north side of the river all the streets are named after kings and queens of England (Elizabeth, Edward, George, Albert etc), while the streets on the southern side of the river are named after politicians of the day (Peel, Russell, Grey, Melbourne etc)
That's interesting, I had never noticed the square layout before. It's funny that most of the areas abide by the grid road layout, except for Spring Hill which is all over the place.

You wouldn't have a larger version of that image would you JayT?
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Old October 31st, 2012, 07:43 AM   #23
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I don't see any need for a predetermined size for CBD's relative to the size of their metropolitan areas.

At the end of the day, a central business district needs to provide whatever amount of space and services that is needed for business to occur within that city.
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Old October 31st, 2012, 01:19 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Proctor View Post
Melbourne LGA includes effectively St Kilda Road, Southbank, Dockland, Melbourne, East Melbourne, Carlton, North Melbourne, West Melborune, Parkville, Kensington.

also Manhattan is an island of about 30km x 6km I think. size wise its 2 million residents are in an area.

In the context of the big two Aussie cities it woudl be:
Melbourne - CBD to Monash
Sydney - Sydney to Paramatta (or say the Airport through the CBD to Chatswood)

Now not wanting to place too fine a point on it but the populations of Melbourne, Stonnington, Monash LGA's add up to about 500,000 so not as ridiculously out of touch as you may have considered.

I guess that the Sydney corridors I've noted above would be closer to 1 million population
You're a bit out. Using the community profiles from the 2011 Census;

Code:
LGA             Pop     Area
Stonnington	93,145	25.6
Melbourne	93,625	37.4
Monash		169,280	81.5
Total		356,050	144.5	
Across the three LGA's the population density is 2,464/sq km.

Also I don't think the corridors you noted in Sydney would have quite that many people.
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Old October 31st, 2012, 05:09 PM   #25
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Why not, where else but a CBD are you going to have so many amenities on your door step? I'd love to live on George Street if I could.
Rather live in an apartment in an inner city suburb that was dense yet has it's own villagey feel to it. Somewhere that offered both convenience and a sense of homeliness.

Wouldn't care for being in the CBD itself, and being stuck in suburbia out in Eastern Melbourne presently is bad
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Old October 31st, 2012, 05:28 PM   #26
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I personally would love to see council amalgamations and ridding the city of councils altogether and adopting a plan to see larger districts. For example CoM could extend all the way down to the junction to footscray to Richmond to Carlton. Pretty much the "grand CBD" plan but something more official that rids the local councils jurisdiction over those respective areas. A southern council could take in sections from say South Yarra to Cheltenham or Mordiallic leaving suburbs further south under the responsibility of an enlarged Frankston City Council
Don't you live at Crown Towers?

And what do you think of the amalgamations a few years back in South East Queensland - something to base it on?
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Old October 31st, 2012, 09:38 PM   #27
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Good Thread.

Sydney should have built Hong Kong style skyscrapers around Sydney Harbour and all across Lower North Shore and Inner West instead of bloody suburban sprawl. The City should have been at least 1/4 of the population.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 05:49 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AltiusAltiusAltius
Good Thread.

Sydney should have built Hong Kong style skyscrapers around Sydney Harbour and all across Lower North Shore and Inner West instead of bloody suburban sprawl. The City should have been at least 1/4 of the population.
Sydney has wrecked the harbour enough, it definitely wasn't "the place for a city". It's a beautiful harbour, it's been spoiled.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 05:58 AM   #29
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Oh sod off.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 06:54 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverPearl

Sydney has wrecked the harbour enough, it definitely wasn't "the place for a city". It's a beautiful harbour, it's been spoiled.
Oh come on. The harbor has made Sydney the premier Australian city and its beauty is known throughout the world. Without it, it would be just another Melbourne or Brisbane. Even if or when Brisbane or Melbourne out grow it (unlikely) it will still remain as Australia's globally known city, much like Rio in Brazil which was outgrown by SaoPaulo.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 12:49 PM   #31
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Sydney has wrecked the harbour enough, it definitely wasn't "the place for a city". It's a beautiful harbour, it's been spoiled.
The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction to reminding others not to respond to trolls.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 02:37 PM   #32
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As mentioned previously, the current population for Sydney's six innermost councils (rough 5km radius from the city centre)

CURRENT POPULATION
Code:
LGA                     Total   Area       Density
Waverley		63,487	9.2 sq km  6,901/sq km
North Sydney		62,289	10.5 sq km 5,932/sq km
Leichhardt		52,198	10.5 sq km 4,971/sq km
Woollahra		52,158	12.3 sq km 4,240/sq km
Marrickville		76,500	16.5 sq km 4,636/sq km
Sydney		        169,505	26.7 sq km 6,349/sq km
Total			476,137	85.7 sq km 5,556/sq km
And their projected populations in 20 years time. Some of the projections are a little dated.

PROJECTED POPULATION (2030-2031)
Code:
LGA                     Total   Area       Density
Waverley--              65,000  9.2 sq km  7,065/sq km
North Sydney&           76,860  10.5 sq km 7,320/sq km
Leichhardt~~            57,546  10.5 sq km 5,480/sq km
Woollahra#              55,400  12.3 sq km 4,504/sq km
Marrickville^           86,993  16.5 sq km 5,272/sq km
Sydney *                243,000 26.7 sq km 9,101/sq km
Total                   584,799 85.7 sq km 6,824/sq km
-- Can't find projections for Waverley LGA so have assumed marginal growth

& http://forecast2.id.com.au/default.aspx?id=238&pg=5110

~~
http://www.slhd.nsw.gov.au/planning/...th_Profile.pdf

#
http://www.woollahra.nsw.gov.au/__da...ugust_2006.pdf

^ http://www.publicpractice.com.au/PDF...%20summary.pdf

*
http://www.sydney2030.com.au/learn-i...and-statistics

So this 5km ring from the city centre will have almost 600,000 residents by 2031.

Beyond 2031, when development of current urban renewal sites (Barangaroo, Central Park, the Ashmore Estate, Harold Park, Redfern-Waterloo infill, Green Square) is completed, here are some longer term sites with urban renewal prospects.

1. Marrickville. Marrickville has approximately 160 hectares of industrial land located in close proximity to the Sydenham end of the suburb. It too is a prime candidate for urban renewal, located quite close to Sydenham Station which will see a dramatic increase in the number of trains per hour with the implementation of the rapid transit network. At 300 people/ha = 48,000 people

2. Alexandria. South of Green Square, north of Mascot and east of Sydney Park, there is some 100 hectares of industrial land that has no infill currently planned. Granted, this area is not as well served by existing or planned public transport as the first two locations and will likely be impacted by West Connex. As such, with a reduced density of 150 people/hectare, it could accommodate about 15,000 people.

3. Eveleigh. Only 50 hectares, however it is located virtually on top of Redfern Station. Sink the rail lines, connect the east and west parts of Redfern and deliver high density commercial and residential development. At 400 people per hectare (less than Central Park), that equates to 20,000 new residents.

4. Central. Smaller again at about 15 hectares, however no other urban renewal site in Australia is as well located. Above the biggest and busiest train station in the Southern Hemisphere, we could literally reach for the sky. At 600 people per hectare (again less than Central Park), that equals 9,000 people. Then there's the commercial side of things too...

5. Western Distributor. Not sure exactly how much space we have here, but I read a report a few months back that suggests a minimum of 1,000,000 sq m of floor space can be delivered for commercial and residential development. That's effectively double what is being delivered at Barangaroo. Could equate to as many as 4,000 new residents in that case and almost 50,000 new jobs.

6. Bays Precinct. 80 odd hectares. Hard to access or service by public transport. Even at 100 people per hectare, it could accommodate 8,000 residents. Reinstate the ANZAC Line to Ryde and you could do a lot more with the site.

7. Fox Studios. 24.3 hectares at the Entertainment Quarter. Again, difficult to service by mass transit however it should be a focus of any future east-west line, and a Moore Park LRT stop would make it a bit more accessible. Plenty of parkland surrounds the site (as well as the SCG and SFS). Could go for something that has a bit of an impact on the skyline. At 300 people per hectare, that's over 6,500 new residents.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 03:29 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiescraperman View Post
some numbers: manhattan population = 2,000,000. NY metro = 20,000,000. 10%

melbourne cbd = 100,000. Melbourne metro = 4,200,000. 2.4%

Melbourne should be looking at 400,000 people minimum within it's central areas at the moment and its good to see that their are some plans to make this happen within the next 30 years. but by then the suburbs would have sprawled even more! the idea of polycentric cities is good aswell as long as the centres are close enough so you can implement rapid transport.
Using Sydney's Greater Capital City Statistical Area, the population is 4,391,674. Of that 10.84% (476,137) lives within a 5km radius of the Sydney CBD.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 04:43 PM   #34
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The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction to reminding others not to respond to trolls.
Fabian = Fab Ian

Mindblown.

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Old November 1st, 2012, 05:03 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabian

The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction to reminding others not to respond to trolls.
It's just an opinion Fabian, get over it. I just love and appreciate natural beauty. It's just a pity Sydney Harbour was allowed to be built around where everyone is screaming to get a glimpse of it. It kind of has wrecked it in my opinion. When I visit Sydney harbour, I try and imagine it without mans destruction of it such as the buildings. If you loved your harbour as much as I do, you might just agree with me.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 05:13 PM   #36
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The harbour would just be another inland body of water like many along the NSW coast without the beautiful city on it's shores. What's different about it is the natural beauty of the harbour and the beauty of the city work together to make something truly special. Sydney is a marriage of urbanism and nature, which is one of the many great things about this city.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 05:45 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mornnb
The harbour would just be another inland body of water like many along the NSW coast without the beautiful city on it's shores. What's different about it is the natural beauty of the harbour and the beauty of the city work together to make something truly special. Sydney is a marriage of urbanism and nature, which is one of the many great things about this city.
It could be worse I guess.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 06:49 PM   #38
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Old November 1st, 2012, 10:29 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mornnb View Post
The harbour would just be another inland body of water like many along the NSW coast without the beautiful city on it's shores. What's different about it is the natural beauty of the harbour and the beauty of the city work together to make something truly special. Sydney is a marriage of urbanism and nature, which is one of the many great things about this city.
Sydney has alot of respect for the harbour and if you look at the efforts to clean up the harbour over the past few decades, it shows that the city loves one of its most famous natural assets. Also there have been many efforts made to open up the harbour by converting selected former industrial sites into public parklands. Barangaroo will also include a massive harbourside park, which opens a large section of Sydney Harbour foreshore that was once closed to the public during its days as a port.
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 02:37 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverPearl

It's just an opinion Fabian, get over it. I just love and appreciate natural beauty. It's just a pity Sydney Harbour was allowed to be built around where everyone is screaming to get a glimpse of it. It kind of has wrecked it in my opinion. When I visit Sydney harbour, I try and imagine it without mans destruction of it such as the buildings. If you loved your harbour as much as I do, you might just agree with me.
When Melbourne gets its own beautiful harbour it can polish it however it likes.
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