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Old January 18th, 2018, 09:18 PM   #38041
volodaaaa
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Within my agenda I am in a close contact with Austrians and they are strange. I do not mean it offensive. They just really stick to academic titles and if they do not mention it anywhere (like some list of participants), they always put the "without titles" side note. Furthermore, I am really impressed how they accepted the new short name for the Czech Republic - Czechia. I consider it too much artificial and therefore, though unintentional, I keep omitting it. But it would be nice to make people get used to it.
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Old January 18th, 2018, 09:25 PM   #38042
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Yes, I noticed that too since i live in Austria. I have seen people with their titels written also in the passport (like Eng. for Engineer or Dr. for Doctor etc.).

On the other side, although I live in Austria, I have a lot of contact with British people as most of the projects I am managing are over there. I noticed that in almost every British company, each employee must have a clearly defined title, which they use everywhere. And then you get things like: Junior Project Manager, Project Manager, Senior Project Manager, Assistent Manager, Financial Manager, Site Manager, Works Manager etc. Thing is that I find so many people with "manager" in their title that I wonder who is actually doing any work, and who is "managing" things. Plus that there are "managers" who aren't actually managing anything, not taking any decisions and not having any responsibility but just moving papers from here to there, but they are still "managers".
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Old January 18th, 2018, 09:28 PM   #38043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
Within my agenda I am in a close contact with Austrians and they are strange. I do not mean it offensive. They just really stick to academic titles and if they do not mention it anywhere (like some list of participants), they always put the "without titles" side note.
I noticed the same with Germans.

When I moved there, my landlady asked me whether I had a PhD. I said "well, yes", and she replied, "Oh, then I have to call the Hausmeister and tell him to change the label on your doorbell, so that it'll read Dr. Spinoza!".

I was like "Ma'am, there is really no need to, it's not important...", when she replied, almost shouting, "It's NOT important? It is indeed! Let me call him..."
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Old January 18th, 2018, 10:49 PM   #38044
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Does it have to do with (perceived) status? In the Netherlands it's not as common. Of course people have an official title or position, but not everyone is a 'manager'. In Germany you'll see things like 'Dipl.-Ing.', it's not as common in the Netherlands for everyday usage except on official documents.
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Old January 18th, 2018, 10:52 PM   #38045
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I don't think that it is a general German or Austrian (or British) quirk. I know many "Dr." who absolutely don't care about it. To be honest, I never met one in my job who cared about it......

However, I know a "Dipl.-Ing" who thinks that he is something "better" than I because I'm "only a technician". He sometimes tells me that there is a difference... I know him for 20 years and his desk is next to mine. We get the same salary though

Edit: And of course, there are a LOT OF "manager" here. I'm not a manager but I manage jobs/task, co-workers, suppliers,... and I make decisions!
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Old January 18th, 2018, 11:50 PM   #38046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Does it have to do with (perceived) status? In the Netherlands it's not as common. Of course people have an official title or position, but not everyone is a 'manager'. In Germany you'll see things like 'Dipl.-Ing.', it's not as common in the Netherlands for everyday usage except on official documents.
I think in the NL it is partly because there might be some confusion.

Ir. is an engineer from university
Ing. is an engineer from the HBO (roughly college)
dr. is having a doctorate
drs. is having a masters degree
etcetera

So for someone without that level of education, or coming from another country, it is hard to keep track of everything. Also in Dutch culture you are not supposed to show of your wealth (having luxury items isn't as much of a status symbol as other countries), so I guess being humble in your presentation is following those ideas. Most of those social constructs are BTW (supposedly) the results of the efforts of Jehan Cauvin, which had a large influence on it when protestantism took flight.
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Old January 18th, 2018, 11:59 PM   #38047
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Yes managers are popular here as well. The most popular is a "project manager". You are no one if you are not a project manager. Everyone is. :-D and we somehow insist on functions accordingly. Directors became senior managers, secretaries (the women with cleavages and high heels who make coffees for supervisors) are assistants and dispatchers are operation managers. Sometimes I expect the cleaning ladies become hygiene managers. :-D
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Old Yesterday, 12:38 AM   #38048
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Its the level of formality. The axis of germany, austria and switzerland is just like that.
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Old Yesterday, 10:09 AM   #38049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8166UY View Post
I think in the NL it is partly because there might be some confusion.

Ir. is an engineer from university
Ing. is an engineer from the HBO (roughly college)
dr. is having a doctorate
drs. is having a masters degree
etcetera

So for someone without that level of education, or coming from another country, it is hard to keep track of everything. Also in Dutch culture you are not supposed to show of your wealth (having luxury items isn't as much of a status symbol as other countries), so I guess being humble in your presentation is following those ideas. Most of those social constructs are BTW (supposedly) the results of the efforts of Jehan Cauvin, which had a large influence on it when protestantism took flight.
In Italy, Dr. is a title that anyone who has a university degree use, so having a doctorate adds nothing to your title.
This is why in Italy doctorate is so little considered: many people have no idea what that is.
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Old Yesterday, 11:32 AM   #38050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
I know many "Dr." who absolutely don't care about it. To be honest, I never met one in my job who cared about it......
And now you know one more...
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Old Yesterday, 11:50 AM   #38051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
I don't think that it is a general German or Austrian (or British) quirk. I know many "Dr." who absolutely don't care about it. To be honest, I never met one in my job who cared about it......

However, I know a "Dipl.-Ing" who thinks that he is something "better" than I because I'm "only a technician". He sometimes tells me that there is a difference... I know him for 20 years and his desk is next to mine. We get the same salary though
It depends.

My business card displays the letters DI (equaling to "Dipl.-Ing") for commercial reasons. That degree is high-valued in Finland, and it may attract some potential customers.
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Old Today, 12:38 AM   #38052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
In Italy, Dr. is a title that anyone who has a university degree use, so having a doctorate adds nothing to your title.
This is why in Italy doctorate is so little considered: many people have no idea what that is.
Yeah, that is really weird in Italy. I remember when my bussiness partner once asked me was I a dottore. It was really weird to me why would he consider me a medic while we worked on some purchasing and economic affairs, but I assumed that if might be something weird in Italian language. Google confirmed me that I assumed well.
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Old Today, 03:33 AM   #38053
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Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
Within my agenda I am in a close contact with Austrians and they are strange. I do not mean it offensive. They just really stick to academic titles and if they do not mention it anywhere (like some list of participants), they always put the "without titles" side note.
Well, in Poland some academic professors or doctors are also like that, they feel offended if you don't entitle them correctly. And don't even try starting a question to a teacher who is a professor with "dear doctor".

But people don't put those titles in the passports and any other non-academic official documents.

Quote:
Furthermore, I am really impressed how they accepted the new short name for the Czech Republic - Czechia. I consider it too much artificial and therefore, though unintentional, I keep omitting it. But it would be nice to make people get used to it.
But in German it has always been one word, just Tscheschen. Same as in Polish, by the way (we say just Czechy). Only in English, it was always named with the full name.
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Old Today, 08:25 AM   #38054
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At the university where I studied there was one teacher that had so many differrent titles before his name that, on his office door, the name panel that included all the titles was almost as wide as the door itself.
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Old Today, 09:52 AM   #38055
g.spinoza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
Yeah, that is really weird in Italy. I remember when my bussiness partner once asked me was I a dottore. It was really weird to me why would he consider me a medic while we worked on some purchasing and economic affairs, but I assumed that if might be something weird in Italian language. Google confirmed me that I assumed well.
Doctor means both medic and PhD holder in English, too.
My remark was different: doctor in Italian is anyone who hold any degree, bachelor or master, in any discipline.
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Old Today, 11:24 AM   #38056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
But in German it has always been one word, just Tscheschen. Same as in Polish, by the way (we say just Czechy). Only in English, it was always named with the full name.
Browsing through Wikipedia, it appears that most Germanic and Slavic languages use the short form, while most Romance languages use the full form (Italian, Spanish, French, Catalan, Portuguese).
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Old Today, 12:04 PM   #38057
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Doctor means both medic and PhD holder in English, too.
My remark was different: doctor in Italian is anyone who hold any degree, bachelor or master, in any discipline.
I know, I understand what you meant, maybe you didn't understand what I wrote
When he asked me was I a dottore, he meant especially on university degree, and I thought at the first sight that he asked me if I was a doctor of medicine.
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Old Today, 12:16 PM   #38058
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Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
It depends.

My business card displays the letters DI (equaling to "Dipl.-Ing") for commercial reasons. That degree is high-valued in Finland, and it may attract some potential customers.
I agree about business cards you give out when you need one for the first time but I was talking about email signatures.
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
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See 'New motorway projects' thread

** Please help completing and updating of the list **

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Old Today, 12:27 PM   #38059
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
But in German it has always been one word, just Tscheschen.
No. It was "Tschechische Republik" since 1993. "Tschechien" is officially used since spring 2017 but it was unofficially used since - I think - 1993. Even in media. The "old" name was "Tschechei" which is similar to "Slowakei". "Tscheschen" is not a German word

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_o...epublic#German
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tschechien#Im_Deutschen
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

** Please help completing and updating of the list **

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Old Today, 12:42 PM   #38060
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Quote:
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I agree about business cards you give out when you need one for the first time but I was talking about email signatures.
Sometimes is makes sense in signatures, too. Some years ago, I sent some electronic device to be repaired under warranty. It came back without any actions, because "no defect was found". I wrote a one-page letter describing the misery into very details, and included zillions of technical terms, and put that Dipl-Ing in the signature. Then I resent the device, with the letter. Now, they believed me, and the device was returned after a week with several key components changed.
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