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Old September 25th, 2015, 11:33 PM   #161
FloridaFuture
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He doesn't care. Anyone who thought he did was swindled into supporting him for Altis.

That graphic would be more useful if you made the portion that will be the garage a different color.
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Old September 26th, 2015, 01:06 AM   #162
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^Actually, he does care. It is also true that people who turned out to Altis thinking it would trigger Casper to make better urban development in general his personal crusade got swindled.
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Old September 28th, 2015, 04:47 PM   #163
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How do you justify that the parking garage is "best suited" for the NW corner besides you just protecting crappy designing? Nothing makes it better than placing it at the southwest corner and I actually believe the SW corner would be better considering it would be the side against the sound of traffic from the Crosstown. No one will enjoy living against an expressway..... even if they can see some of the river. That's like saying that someone would enjoy a unit with a bay view, even if their unit was across the street from a waste disposal.
Most people who live here won't be going home on Brorein so there will be added convenience for residents at the NW corner. I also don't see the northern portion of this property at the height of this project to have great views, especially not knowing what the future development will be.

The crosstown isn't all that bad and there are a number of projects near it now, I am sure it won't be an issue for the residents who will enjoy there southern exposure and unobstructed view corridor of the channel / river.

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All the sides of this provide good views of the river, downtown, and the UT campus and Plant Hall, except one side. And that side is the south side. So why not place the garage there?
Looking at a overhead view, the East, South and SE corner have great views of the river and channel. The NW is facing the Tribune and possibly a taller project down the road.

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And I think we all have figured out already that parking can't be built below ground without the cost being significant, so I don't understand why that comment was even necessary.
Unfortunately, it seems necessary in these parts to bring up the obvious at times, such as the auto being the only real option for transportation in the bay area now and for many years to come.

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50 stories would be great here, and may happen with some tax incentives from the city, but I think many would fine with a midrise at this location well. What many are not happy for is the bad planning and lack of care of benefit to the community.
50 Stories is barely going to happen on the former Trump site, this side of the river and this location isn't nearly as desirable IMO so expecting anything more then 8 - 12 stories is not being realistic.


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You think in the present, where a Wal-Mart on this site would make you happy. Because "something is better than nothing". We think for the long term of the city. Even if adding a Riverwalk right now won't connect to anything heading north, it will eventually connect to an extension. Retail would thrive here now and in the future. So why shouldn't there be more retail in this proposal? You're across the river from thousands of business workers and hundreds of hoteliers.
I do not care for Walmart or one being in this location, I have realistic expectations for the bay area developments but seriously, lets not get crazy.

Retail will thrive and it should be focused more on Grand Central. I don't view this location as a place to bring retailers although it could be really cool, I just don't see it as a do or die and certainly believe there are multiple possibilities with developing this property.

In this case, I am accepting what is being proposed and that at least there will be one retail / restaurant located there. If not, I am ok with that too, there are plenty of places for residents to go and for future retail expansion.

As mentioned, I don't see others competing for the opportunity to develop here, that is when you are going to see more intense developments, Tampa may never really get to that point but it is moving in that direction slowly.


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You have an apartment tower almost 10x your proposal planned across the river that will give you hundreds of new residents.
That is right, a proposal, lets see what actually happens, AER is going on 2 years proposed...

Many other proposed projects have come and gone in downtown Tampa too.

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You have thousands of residents already on the other side of the Crosstown. And there is still the possibility that the site with Publix will be redeveloped with a mixed-use residential development, adding hundreds more over there. You are literally down the street from the ever expanding and growing UT campus. You have thousands of students and staff there almost year round. And what do you want to place at the closest they are to this project? A parking garage with no retail whatsoever!!!
I thought this was next to the Crosstown. I can also appreciate the amount of density this project will bring and the new amenities the public can enjoy, it may not be perfect but it is what the market is offering. This could easily not be happening and be left another decade of wasted space like the current use.

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And I don't even live in Tampa, I just expect common sense development and planning. So what's your suggestion for me, Brian?
Stop worrying about Tampa and get involved in that Pasco mess you decided to invest your money in rent and local taxes with your retail purchases.

In addition, you may want to consider becoming an investor / developer, that way you can put your money where your mouth is. Maybe become a philanthropist, and decide to do what is right for a handful of the community that knows everything...

:drops mic:
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Old September 28th, 2015, 10:28 PM   #164
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Well that was a complete waste of time to read.
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Old September 28th, 2015, 10:32 PM   #165
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:drops mic:
I don't think you know what this means. But responding to someone days later with, let me paraphrase "you don't get to have an opinion until you have enough money to tell them what to do" ... doesn't really fit the definition. You love your suburbs and your cars and think that there isn't a market for anything else around here -- which is fine. But don't appropriate urban culture to do so
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Old September 29th, 2015, 01:04 AM   #166
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Maybe we need a Georges-Eugene Haussmann to raze 60% of tampa like he did to Paris and rebuild it so it's less auto centric. The automobile is a part of life here and in the rest of the USA. It's an unfortunate part of life. We are not nyc, or San fran or any other city that has a major public transit system. Plus utilization of such a system is ingrained into the culture that owning a car is not part of life. Even if you built the best system here I highly doubt it would be used, even though many claim they would. I'm all for growth and less use of autos but the dreaming needs to end.
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Old September 29th, 2015, 02:27 AM   #167
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Maybe we need a Georges-Eugene Haussmann to raze 60% of tampa like he did to Paris and rebuild it so it's less auto centric. The automobile is a part of life here and in the rest of the USA. It's an unfortunate part of life. We are not nyc, or San fran or any other city that has a major public transit system. Plus utilization of such a system is ingrained into the culture that owning a car is not part of life. Even if you built the best system here I highly doubt it would be used, even though many claim they would. I'm all for growth and less use of autos but the dreaming needs to end.
The funny thing is, the cities that recently built light rail and traditionally haven't had that culture ingrained in them are now using it more than ever apparently. I'll have to find a link to some articles, but one was printed recently by TBO or TBT I think. The cities they mention are Dallas, Phoenix and Miami.
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Old September 29th, 2015, 02:43 AM   #168
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OKC is in the process of installing their street car -- they re-worked/fixed roads (access & direction), expanded the large park and will open a white water rafting center by the boathouse (national rowing team trial center) in March...

https://www.okc.gov/maps3/projects/modernstreetcar.html

http://www.mtpokc.com (my favorite quote, "Most cities wait until their highways are at a gridlock before they begin taking action. Our city has a history of planning for the future, and now is the time to get it started. It will take vision from each and every one of us. I will need your help."

http://www.news9.com/story/28576760/...ll-steam-ahead

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You see a lot of development going on all over Oklahoma City. But this is really going to connect those areas and encourage even more, and a lot of development that's been announced in the downtown area the past couple years is very close to where the route goes,” he said. “And it's no coincidence.
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Old September 29th, 2015, 02:58 AM   #169
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Here is the Tampa Bay Time story I wanted to link:

Why car-crazy cities (not so fast, Tampa) are riding light rail
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Old September 29th, 2015, 05:51 AM   #170
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I'm all for growth and less use of autos but the dreaming needs to end.
Let the market prove that autos are preferred. Stop mandating and subsidizing them, and see what the 'market chooses' then.
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Old September 30th, 2015, 12:58 AM   #171
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Let the market prove that autos are preferred. Stop mandating and subsidizing them, and see what the 'market chooses' then.
I'm not subsidizing or mandating autos.


"Vinik routinely sidesteps political hot potatoes, and he brushed off frequent references to light rail, a concept voters on both sides of Tampa Bay have soundly rejected. However, he said he wants to see the TECO Streetcar line “become a real, viable means of transportation,” expanded to traverse all of downtown and eventually reach Tampa International Airport."
http://www.tbo.com/news/education/vinik-transportation-issues-could-affect-tampa-areas-growth-20150918/


As this is getting off topic I won't respond further. It is what it is.
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Old September 30th, 2015, 01:42 AM   #172
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[QUOTE=dopey!;127468682]I'm not subsidizing or mandating autos.[QUOTE]

As a taxpayer you are. And you're requiring private businesses to subsidize them even if they don't want to. Live with it, it's reality.


Quote:
"Vinik routinely sidesteps political hot potatoes, and he brushed off frequent references to light rail, a concept voters on both sides of Tampa Bay have soundly rejected. However, he said he wants to see the TECO Streetcar line “become a real, viable means of transportation,” expanded to traverse all of downtown and eventually reach Tampa International Airport."
This reporter is the only person I saw say he didn't want light rail. And to anyone with a brain that sentence is a contradiction.

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As this is getting off topic I won't respond further. It is what it is.
That's fine, but the whole question here has been do people want to walk and live in urban environments? The answer over the last few years is 75% of new homes are built there along the Kennedy corridor.
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Old September 30th, 2015, 05:31 AM   #173
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I'm not subsidizing or mandating autos.
Of course you are. Planning rules require car-centric design. For all roads other than toll roads (and only a very few of them) the government subsidizes them. We all pay for them. Then the government forces things to be built that requires us to use them and discourages using any other transportation. That does not even include waiving impact fees and subsidizing developments.

You can be for roads. That is your choice - a choice of what to subsidize.
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Old September 30th, 2015, 05:59 AM   #174
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Back on topic please.
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Old September 30th, 2015, 10:33 AM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey! View Post
I'm not subsidizing or mandating autos.


"Vinik routinely sidesteps political hot potatoes, and he brushed off frequent references to light rail, a concept voters on both sides of Tampa Bay have soundly rejected. However, he said he wants to see the TECO Streetcar line “become a real, viable means of transportation,” expanded to traverse all of downtown and eventually reach Tampa International Airport."
http://www.tbo.com/news/education/vi...owth-20150918/


As this is getting off topic I won't respond further. It is what it is.
That'll be easy, since you didn't substantively respond to what I wrote anyways. You can claim that we as a society don't subsidize an auto-centric lifestyle at the expense of all others, but you're demonstrably incorrect. Moreover, I didn't say jack about light rail and frankly, I haven't vocally supported light rail as anything but a last resort fixed guideway solution for a few years now. Rebut what I said, not what is in your head from other sources.
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Old September 30th, 2015, 08:53 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by kmthurman View Post
I don't think you know what this means. But responding to someone days later with, let me paraphrase "you don't get to have an opinion until you have enough money to tell them what to do" ... doesn't really fit the definition. You love your suburbs and your cars and think that there isn't a market for anything else around here -- which is fine. But don't appropriate urban culture to do so
That wasn't what was said, the point was if someone really wants to get involved and have a say in decisions, the best way is to be the developer...especially when your ideas lend towards giving more than you can gain in return on your investment or at reducing it significantly to satisfy a few.

I don't love suburbs and actually live in a downtown currently, I also don't love cars and really enjoy using public transit in cities where it is effective. The problem is you assume because I apply common sense and reality of Tampa Bays situation in terms of there not being any real option aside from the car, that somehow that means I said something else...

It isn't that I don't believe there is a market for anything else, I just don't believe every development is a problem and that it has to be anti auto or have neat cafes, especially in NOHO.
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Old September 30th, 2015, 08:55 PM   #177
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Let the market prove that autos are preferred. Stop mandating and subsidizing them, and see what the 'market chooses' then.
Sounds exactly like what many tax payers are saying to those trying to push rail where it won't work, just sayin
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Old September 30th, 2015, 08:59 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by smiley View Post
Of course you are. Planning rules require car-centric design. For all roads other than toll roads (and only a very few of them) the government subsidizes them. We all pay for them. Then the government forces things to be built that requires us to use them and discourages using any other transportation. That does not even include waiving impact fees and subsidizing developments.

You can be for roads. That is your choice - a choice of what to subsidize.
Forces Car-centric design? there isn't anything else remotely realistic for residents and consumers at these new developments to use to access like a subway or lightrail. Keep telling yourself there is an evil plot to push the auto...there isn't anything else and even 20 years from now, there won't be a realistic way to access these new developments other than the car.

No, the bus doesn't count....
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Old September 30th, 2015, 09:00 PM   #179
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That'll be easy, since you didn't substantively respond to what I wrote anyways. You can claim that we as a society don't subsidize an auto-centric lifestyle at the expense of all others, but you're demonstrably incorrect. Moreover, I didn't say jack about light rail and frankly, I haven't vocally supported light rail as anything but a last resort fixed guideway solution for a few years now. Rebut what I said, not what is in your head from other sources.
So what do you say? What is your non-car way of supporting these new developments for residents and consumers to get to them? Taxis, buses, bicycles?
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Old September 30th, 2015, 09:23 PM   #180
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Uber!!!

We use it often.
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