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Old September 23rd, 2014, 05:22 PM   #1781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Dedicated HS lines used exclusively for long distance travel will never be as busy as those also carrying commuter traffic. Maybe in Japan or China, but not in Western Europe. Four trains per hour per direction would already be excellent. That I think we need to take into account. It doesn't automatically make improvements to long distance travel unnecessary.
Have you seen the plans for HS2 in the UK? Between London and the outskirts of Birmingham it will carry up to 18 trains per hour, with the routes from Birmingham to Manchester and Leeds carrying 11tph and 10tph respectively, so on the right route with dedicated infrastructure high frequencies can be justified for intercity services - see the diagram on page 5

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Old September 24th, 2014, 10:30 AM   #1782
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Trenitalia Frecciarossa 1000: 50 new trains
Milan-Rome in just 2h20'


It was presented new Frecciarossa 1000, manufactured in Pistoia and Vado Ligure (Savona) by Ansaldo Breda. Eight railway carriages, 447 seats for four different categories of customers. The cost for each train is 30 million euro. From June 2015, will come into operation in Italy, almost simultaneously with the beginning of Expo Milan (May 2015). The most important feature of this train is the speed: it's up to 400 km/h.

On balance, the Milan-Rome will be covered in just two hours and twenty minutes! A new challenge for airlines. Frecciarossa 1000 is the cutting edge of high-speed trains. Trenitalia will start with six trains, while two new trains will be added every month until to complete the contract (50 trains), scheduled for early 2017.

Frecciarossa 1000 is the first high-speed train in the world to have been certified environmental impact (EPD), because it contains just 28 grams of C02 emissions per passenger / km. A possible outcome thanks to a very low aerodynamic resistance, excellent mass / power and energy savings.

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Old September 24th, 2014, 10:52 AM   #1783
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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Well, today we know it costed around 8 billion euro (but with the upgrade of nearby A4, I think...), and it is used by just 1 or 2 trains per hour per direction. Basically, it is empty. No, they aren't essential (at least the Milan-Turin line), as in many cases tickets are too expensive for Italian citizens, which consequently don't use them.
Do you have proof they don't?

Last time I checked frecciarossa between Turin and Milan were quite full
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Old September 26th, 2014, 11:47 AM   #1784
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From Rail Journal:

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http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=542

NTV to withdraw Adriatic services
Friday, September 26, 2014



THE steering committee of Italian open-access high-speed operator NTV voted on September 24 to restructure its debts, with shareholders expected to contribute capital, while the company has also decided to withdraw Italo services to the Adriatic Coast from the start of the 2015 timetable on December 15

NTV launched services from Milan to Rimini, Pesaro and Ancona a year ago, but it has decided to withdraw from the route due to high infrastructure access costs.

NTV says the cessation of this service will enable it to strengthen its presence on the profitable Milan - Rome - Naples route.

In the first half of 2014 NTV made a loss of €77m and by the middle of the year net debts stood at €666m.
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Old September 26th, 2014, 08:07 PM   #1785
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Originally Posted by IThomas View Post
In the video it is said that it is made in Italy...while it is a Bombardier project. "Made in Europe" would likely be more correct

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddard Stark View Post
Do you have proof they don't?

Last time I checked frecciarossa between Turin and Milan were quite full
Having all trains 100% full means nothing, without saying also how many trains there are.

I admit I have exagerated saying that nobody in Italy cannot afford HSTs, however, a full fare Frecciarossa ticket for Milan Centrale-Turin Porta Nuova costs 30 €, comparable to the 34 € ViaMichelin.it gives for the same trip by car. To compare, an InterRegio train (1h52) on the same trip costs 12.20 €, and a Frecciabianca (much less stops than the IR, but taking just 8 minutes less: 1h44) costs 25.50 €.

Full fare Frecciarossa tickets are still quite expensive, IMHO, and advance purchase discounts on such a short trip aren't so attractive (as the train competitor on Milan-Turin is the car, not the airplane).

The Frecciabianca trains are the most strange: they are just 8 minutes faster than the InterRegio, but cost the double of them. They also take much more time than the Frecciarossa, but cost just 4.50 € less. What's their point?
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Old September 26th, 2014, 08:16 PM   #1786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
In the video it is said that it is made in Italy...while it is a Bombardier project. "Made in Europe" would likely be more correct



Having all trains 100% full means nothing, without saying also how many trains there are.

I admit I have exagerated saying that nobody in Italy cannot afford HSTs, however, a full fare Frecciarossa ticket for Milan Centrale-Turin Porta Nuova costs 30 €, comparable to the 34 € ViaMichelin.it gives for the same trip by car. To compare, an InterRegio train (1h52) on the same trip costs 12.20 €, and a Frecciabianca (much less stops than the IR, but taking just 8 minutes less: 1h44) costs 25.50 €.

Full fare Frecciarossa tickets are still quite expensive, IMHO, and advance purchase discounts on such a short trip aren't so attractive (as the train competitor on Milan-Turin is the car, not the airplane).

The Frecciabianca trains are the most strange: they are just 8 minutes faster than the InterRegio, but cost the double of them. They also take much more time than the Frecciarossa, but cost just 4.50 € less. What's their point?
Going from Venice to Turin (or intermediate stations) without changing train in Milan, even if it takes half an hour more, including the wasted time for changing train.
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Old September 26th, 2014, 08:26 PM   #1787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimlys1994 View Post
From Rail Journal:
I'm ambivalent about this. I was hoping this service would turn out great. However, as NTV has gone red and is not on its best financial shape, it probably has no money to further expand the fleet, and the diversion of 2 trains to operate these Adriatic services was reducing its competitiveness on the core axis Torino-Napoli.
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Old September 26th, 2014, 09:27 PM   #1788
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Originally Posted by Jasper90 View Post
Going from Venice to Turin (or intermediate stations) without changing train in Milan, even if it takes half an hour more, including the wasted time for changing train.
That's true. But are there really enough people wanting to bypass Milan to make these trains profitable between Milan and Turin?

Anyway, with the arrival of the new ETR 400 trains and with the Milan-Brescia HSL (which will use 25 kV AC), the old ETR 500 sets will likely be deployed on Turin-Venice (and Milan-Adriatic coast).
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