search the site
 daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > European Forums > UK & Ireland Architecture Forums > Projects and Construction > Irish Architecture Forum

Irish Architecture Forum Architecture, Planning and Transport on the Island of Ireland



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old June 25th, 2013, 11:21 PM   #1
odlum833
Registered User
 
odlum833's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 9,990
Likes (Received): 2076

Are people angry enough yet? Anglo Irish recordings go from bad to worse

Quote:
Anglo Irish Bank tapes: executives mock Germans amid bailout

Latest leaked recordings compound outrage over behaviour of Anglo Irish bankers amid multibillion-euro state rescue

Henry McDonald, Ireland correspondent
The Guardian, Tuesday 25 June 2013 16.22 BST

Anglo Irish Bank headquarters in St Stephen's Green, Dublin. Photograph: PA
The Irish prime minister has pledged to open an investigation into the €30bn (£25.5bn) bailout of Anglo Irish Bank as it emerged that an executive sang "Deutschland, Deutschland, über alles" as colleagues joked about German money flowing into the country after a state guarantee of the institution's deposits.

A banker is heard on tape joking and singing the former first lines of the Deutschlandlied – not used since the Nazis made the first stanza their anthem – as the bank's then chief executive, David Drumm, urges his executives to "get the ******* money in". The recording was made in September 2008, when the Irish state stepped in to rescue a bank brought low by a property lending spree.

Enda Kenny, the taoiseach, paved the way for a parliamentary inquiry into an "axis of collusion", although he stopped short of a full, Leveson-style inquiry. Referring to the former taoiseach Brian Cowen, who ran the country during the Anglo Irish bailout, he said: "I assume that our predecessors here, people who served … in high office and in those governments, would have the opportunity and would have the willingness, I assume, to come to a parliamentary inquiry."

The latest recordings to be leaked from inside the bank will compound national outrage in Ireland over the behaviour of Anglo Irish bankers.


....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...-tapes-bailout


"Deutschland Uber Alles!"







The Irish Independent has so far only released 28 minutes of taped phone and conference calls within the bank but they have 100's of hours of recordings.

So there is a lot of this to come.



Meanwhile on the streets of Dublin it's like the storming of the Bastille!





I am currently watching France 24 and they just can not understand why (a) we bailed these guys out and (b) nobody is protesting. They look more outraged then any one I have seen on Irish television

This is a scandal of proportions I have rarely seen - I can only think of the likes of Enron coming close to this sort of open duplicity, dishonesty and outright skullduggery.

The executives from this recording are John Bowe (head of the bank's capital markets) and Peter Fitzgerald (director of retail banking) having a conversation about essentially luring the central bank and the taxpayers in to a trap by understating how much the bank needs. The idea being once we are in the door bailing them out we can't pull the plug without wrecking the entire banking system.



We have learned more in the last 2 days of the mentality in the banks than in the last 5 years. Well done to the media particularly the Irish Independent for blowing these guys out of the water. Fantastic scoop. They should be ashamed of themselves.
__________________
Ireland forum is here

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1596

Last edited by odlum833; July 1st, 2013 at 09:08 AM.
odlum833 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old June 25th, 2013, 11:44 PM   #2
JD47
Registered User
 
JD47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Dublin
Posts: 3,848
Likes (Received): 306

Really does make my blood boil. People are really struggling and this sort of shit doesn't help.
JD47 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2013, 12:40 AM   #3
belfastuniguy
Subliving
 
belfastuniguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Belfast
Posts: 20,059
Likes (Received): 7374

Bankers laughing at our expense and generally being fraudulent, no surprise there. There were no protests when the banks collapsed in 2008 and there won't be any now. Be interesting to see what members of the FF knew, thought that'll likely not form part of any inquiry.
__________________
Anyone that lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

:: Northern Ireland Forum : Republic of Ireland Forum ::

Last edited by belfastuniguy; June 26th, 2013 at 12:54 AM.
belfastuniguy está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2013, 01:47 PM   #4
odlum833
Registered User
 
odlum833's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 9,990
Likes (Received): 2076

The Minister for Finance will be less than impressed by "Deutschland Uber Alles" sprayed across the front pages of a number of German newspapers today like Bild for example (which up till now has been very sanguine on Ireland and favourably disposed in commentary despite being a sensationalist tabloid paper)


But it's the observations of the usually relaxed Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung that jumps out


Quote:
The usually-sedate ‘Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung’ goes further in its ire, claiming that the former executives should be put in a ‘sack’ – along with shareholders and members of the last Irish government, and members of the regulatory authorities.

“Take a bag and put this in it: First, the management of the former Anglo Irish Bank, and those employees who appear in the newly published audiotapes and behave like arrogant brats,” it reads

“Second, money managers of all kinds such as shareholders, bondholders and depositors from home and abroad who have entrusted money to this so-called bank after the crisis broke.

“Third, officials in the then Dublin government, regulators and the central bank who have been watching the goings on for far too long - regardless of whether they did not see, or could not see, the debacle.

“Fourth, the authorities in European institutions, who watched passively as the Irish State allowed its banks to rise and then allowed the European Central Bank to act in a way that is more than just bordering on monetary financing.

“When the bag is filled with these people, take a stick and beat until the wailing is unbearable. Then take all the decision makers in Europe in hand and guarnatee the citizens that a debacle like Anglo Irish Bank will never allow be allowed to happen again.”

The Independent has not published any tape today so far as I can see but in it's lead article here

http://www.independent.ie/business/i...-29372488.html


Quote:
The tapes also put politicians firmly in the spotlight.

A fourth senior Anglo executive also enters the frame in these tapes for the first time.

I also find it interesting that a crime correspondent is leading this story (why not a financial journalist?). That kinda gives a hint as to where the leaks are coming from I'd hazard a guess - the Gardaí - and i'd go further and suggest they have leaked this information due to frustration at the slow pace of investigations. That's just my opinion not fact.
__________________
Ireland forum is here

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1596
odlum833 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2013, 01:50 PM   #5
belfastuniguy
Subliving
 
belfastuniguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Belfast
Posts: 20,059
Likes (Received): 7374

Annoying the Germans really isn't going to work in Ireland's favour. If they believe they have been bullshitted by the Irish financial system and played for fools then they won't exactly be as accommodating as before.

That's the danger of this all coming out

Quote:
Anglo Irish tape complicates Dublin’s debt relief talks

Dublin is concerned that the broadcasting of “shocking” conversations between executives at Anglo Irish Bank – in which they laugh about abusing Ireland’s bank guarantee to attract deposits – could hurt its attempts to win debt relief from EU partners
__________________
Anyone that lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

:: Northern Ireland Forum : Republic of Ireland Forum ::
belfastuniguy está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2013, 02:07 PM   #6
odlum833
Registered User
 
odlum833's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 9,990
Likes (Received): 2076

I am not so worried about that to be perfectly honest. That's to do with the European Stability Mechanism repaying for stakes some of the money the government put in to the banks.

The bigger issue as that newspaper quoted is the ECB changing of the Anglo Irish promissory notes in to long term bonds which it describes as "monetary financing" by the ECB of a sovereign state which is expressly outlawed in the ECB's constitution. A spade being a spade it is known that is monetary financing. The Bundesbank hawks have been trying to lean on the ECB since that deal was done. This gives them more ammunition. That deal has saved the country 10's of billions of euro over 30 + years. It's very contentious. And it's the one part of this that could spark in to life sooner rather than later. I'm not saying anything will happen - I can't see how the ECB can renege on what it did in conjunction with the Irish central bank - but it's a fault line within the ECB that is hugely contentious.

We have bailed out a criminal conspiracy (I have been saying it for years) and the ECB have actively facilitated that and continue to facilitate it. It's outrageous.
__________________
Ireland forum is here

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1596
odlum833 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2013, 11:46 PM   #7
Insert username here
Registered User
 
Insert username here's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: The Pale
Posts: 1,183
Likes (Received): 674

Round them both up, get everything we need from them and shoot the feckers. Trials are just a waste of time with this pair. Defrauding the state of tens of billions which they never intended to pay back. Surely that's treason.

Also they have to be completely investigated by the Gardaí. If they already have, why wasn't this found earlier?

And just their whole attitude towards what they're doing..ugh..it makes me sick
Insert username here no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2013, 12:42 AM   #8
eye-of-the-Tara
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 139
Likes (Received): 6

Well they have you all, because you all use money, so you can't put them to jail because it's the bankers and elites who created this prison mind society. many of you now support and advocate by going out working 9 to 5 and gaining college degrees. They have had you since birth.

We are all slaves in this world unfortunately, and the sooner we wake up to the truth of it, the sooner we are on the way to waking out of the enslavement.
eye-of-the-Tara no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2013, 12:54 AM   #9
JD47
Registered User
 
JD47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Dublin
Posts: 3,848
Likes (Received): 306

What is the penalty for treason? I thought it was treason at first but, to be honest, I'm not entirely sure on the laws regarding treason.
JD47 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2013, 01:44 AM   #10
Insert username here
Registered User
 
Insert username here's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: The Pale
Posts: 1,183
Likes (Received): 674

Quote:
Originally Posted by JD47 View Post
What is the penalty for treason? I thought it was treason at first but, to be honest, I'm not entirely sure on the laws regarding treason.
Okay technically in Ireland it's something like "wage war" against the state.


Didn't the greens come up with economic treason to be included in the Constitution a few years ago? I don't think it ever went through though
Insert username here no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2013, 04:43 PM   #11
eye-of-the-Tara
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 139
Likes (Received): 6

Obviously I am ignored. Leave you all to it then I am talking to the walls
eye-of-the-Tara no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2013, 08:06 PM   #12
JD47
Registered User
 
JD47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Dublin
Posts: 3,848
Likes (Received): 306

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insert username here View Post
Okay technically in Ireland it's something like "wage war" against the state.


Didn't the greens come up with economic treason to be included in the Constitution a few years ago? I don't think it ever went through though
Do you know the penalty.
JD47 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2013, 08:09 PM   #13
belfastuniguy
Subliving
 
belfastuniguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Belfast
Posts: 20,059
Likes (Received): 7374

Quote:
The crime of treason is defined by Article 39 of the Constitution of Ireland, adopted in 1937, which states:
treason shall consist only in levying war against the State, or assisting any State or person or inciting or conspiring with any person to levy war against the State, or attempting by force of arms or other violent means to overthrow the organs of government established by the Constitution, or taking part or being concerned in or inciting or conspiring with any person to make or to take part or be concerned in any such attempt.
Also

Quote:
The Criminal Justice Act 1990 abolished the death penalty completely and set the punishment for treason at life imprisonment, with parole in not less than forty years
__________________
Anyone that lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

:: Northern Ireland Forum : Republic of Ireland Forum ::

JD47, Insert username here liked this post
belfastuniguy está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2013, 10:03 PM   #14
JD47
Registered User
 
JD47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Dublin
Posts: 3,848
Likes (Received): 306

Cheers BelfastUniGuy. I always wondered what the deal was with the death penalty and treason. Cheers for clearing it up.
JD47 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2013, 11:49 AM   #15
belfastuniguy
Subliving
 
belfastuniguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Belfast
Posts: 20,059
Likes (Received): 7374

Merkel: Anglo Irish tapes contemptible

The leaked Anglo Irish Bank telephone conversations are damaging democracy, German Chancellor Angela Merkel has said.

Bank executives are heard on the tapes mocking Germans and making jokes about the financial crisis in Ireland.

Angela Merkel told journalists on Thursday that she regarded the contents with contempt.

On one tape, an Anglo executive is heard singing Deutschland, Deutschland über alles.

The taped calls, dating from September 2008 when Anglo Irish was on the verge of collapse, were leaked by the Irish Independent newspaper.

'Huge challenge'

Speaking in Brussels following an EU leaders summit, Chancellor Merkel said the recordings were "damaging democracy, the social market and everything we strive for".

"I have nothing but contempt for this. The tone seems to be similar across all the banks," she said.

"It is for us a huge challenge to convince people who get up every day and every day do their work and always pay their taxes, do everything, even show solidarity with other people who are weaker.

"All of this is destroyed by that and so I have nothing but contempt for that."

The two bankers whose call was recorded by Anglo's phone and security system, have issued statements denying they were part of a strategy to mislead the Central Bank saying they knew of no such effort.
__________________
Anyone that lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

:: Northern Ireland Forum : Republic of Ireland Forum ::
belfastuniguy está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2013, 11:58 PM   #16
odlum833
Registered User
 
odlum833's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 9,990
Likes (Received): 2076

DAY 7

Conversations on 15th Dec 2008 - 3 months after bank guarantee.


Quote:
'I'll probably punch Lenihan' – Drumm


'He told the world we are all f**king solvent, now he can protect his €100bn guarantee by writing us a €3bn cheque – get on with it!'

TOM LYONS AND GAVIN SHERIDAN – 30 JUNE 2013

ANGLO Irish Bank chief executive David Drumm wanted to "punch" the former finance minister Brian Lenihan in frustration during the banking crisis.


In exclusive new revelations from the Anglo Tapes, the Sunday Independent can reveal that just weeks before Anglo was nationalised Drumm wanted the State to start writing the cheques, irrespective of the size of the black hole inside the bank.

...More

http://www.independent.ie/business/i...-29383266.html







Here Sean Quinn is discussed.





David Drumm and John Bowe (head of capital markets)

Quote:
David Drumm launched astonishing tirade against female financial official




PAUL WILLIAMS – 29 JUNE 2013

ANGLO Irish Bank David Drumm launches an ill-tempered tirade against two prominent women in financial circles.


The foul-mouthed banker describes one woman as "f***in' bitch features" and passes a dismissive comment about another senior female who was involved in a meeting in previous days.

"Never opened her f***in' gob, of course," he says.

The name of another high-ranking woman arises in the course of a conversation with newly promoted director of treasury at the bank, John Bowe. Even though this person is helping the bank in its battle for survival, she is still on the receiving end of Mr Drumm's contemptuous attitude.

More...

http://www.independent.ie/business/i...-29381752.html
__________________
Ireland forum is here

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1596

Last edited by odlum833; July 1st, 2013 at 12:20 AM.
odlum833 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2013, 12:59 AM   #17
odlum833
Registered User
 
odlum833's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 9,990
Likes (Received): 2076

The most important part of today's tapes is the revelation that Merrill Lynch advised the government to let Anglo Irish Bank fail and the government said no.

Quote:
Merrill Lynch Wanted Anglo Irish Bank Shut, Reveals New Recording

American-investment bank Merrill Lynch, external advisor to the Brian Cowen-led Irish government in 2008 and former corporate broker to now defunct Anglo Irish Bank (AIB), had recommended that the bank be shut down.

The latest set of tapped phone conversations between Anglo Irish Bank bosses, put out by Ireland's Independent newspaper, reveal how the then government had disregarded Merrill's recommendation about the toxic bank in late 2008.

More...

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/48...nch-david.htm#
Again this is the 15th December 2008 and again it's David Drumm and John Bowe. Astonishing stuff.



http://www.independent.ie/business/i...-29381746.html
__________________
Ireland forum is here

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1596

Last edited by odlum833; July 1st, 2013 at 05:13 AM.
odlum833 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2013, 10:57 PM   #18
thebig C
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,219
Likes (Received): 322

A couple of observations,

Firstly, despite the fact that we all knew deep down that these sorts of attitudes were probably prevalent amongst bankers and developers actually hearing them was quite shocking. Not so much in what they were saying but in the casual way in which they treated effectively bankrupting the Nation.

I think perhaps too much attention was given to the aspect regard the rather poor (and wrong) rendition of the German National Anthem. Whilst that gives ammunition to a certain cohort of German tabloids, most German people and politicians would it seems be intelligent enough to differentiate between these clowns and the Irish people as a whole.

On aspect of the story which slightly worries me though, is the fact that these tapes were leaked to The Independent and Paul Williams in particular. My concerns centre on the fact that The Independent has a history of defending the indefensible were the last Government was concerned, and furthermore, they were at the forefront of attempts to disparage and discredit the Flood/Mahon Tribunals. Moreover, Paul Williams is at times an extremely sensationalist and irresponsible journalist who lacks the political experience not to undermine future criminal proceedings. In fact, he is responsible for the collapse of a criminal trial in the past (something which he is never reminded of!).

Lastly, the initial recordings seemed to indicate that if anything the bankers had hoodwinked the last government. However, the most recent recordings hint that the Cowen administration not only ignored advice at a cost of billions but raises even more questions as to why they took those actions and who they were trying to protect.

C
thebig C no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2013, 12:07 AM   #19
odlum833
Registered User
 
odlum833's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 9,990
Likes (Received): 2076

Nah, Paul Williams is not sensationalist at all





Seems strange he works for the Irish Independent now which is still a broadsheet AFAIK.
__________________
Ireland forum is here

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1596

Last edited by odlum833; July 2nd, 2013 at 12:12 AM.
odlum833 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2013, 12:11 AM   #20
thebig C
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,219
Likes (Received): 322

lol!

That's the point, Williams is so used to dealing with Gangsters and Drug Dealers who are reticent about suing for libel for obvious reasons. If he were to overstep the mark in relation to comments about bankers he will find himself in court quicker the you can say defamation!! That's why I would have preferred an experienced political/economic Journalist on this case.

C
thebig C no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu