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Old December 5th, 2005, 03:33 PM   #1
Socceroo
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Leave the scaffold up award.

Okay guy's we are all great at giving comment on the various buildings in Glasgow that are proposed in the near future, by looking at a couple of Computer generated images.

I gave the view in other threads that we should not really judge a building until it comes together on site.

However, let's not forget that there are quite a few buildings in Glasgow nearing completion, that are being unwrapped of scaffold and debris netting to be viewed by the adoring Glasgow public.

With this in mind, i suggest we have a leave the scaffold up award. Yes, you have guessed it, which masterpiece in Glasgow do you dislike that much that you would have preferred to look at the debris netting.



The Roo..meter gives this a big fat 1.5/10. The above image actually does it justice. The real thing is worse much worse.

It would look better...slightly, in another location, but on the Clydeside.....

C'mon guys don't be shy, what get's your leave the scaffold up vote.
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Old December 5th, 2005, 03:37 PM   #2
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Good one soceroo ha ha ...dont worry wont be long before its hidden by another future carbuncle by the looks of it.

Last edited by M_Riaz; December 5th, 2005 at 04:27 PM.
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Old December 5th, 2005, 03:59 PM   #3
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Ha ha! The Roo meter! Classic!

You know what I'd do?

Carpet bomb it with Virgina creeper.

Lots of it....

Then maybe we'd just not notice the f**ker
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Old December 5th, 2005, 04:05 PM   #4
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Carpet bomb it.
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Old December 5th, 2005, 04:06 PM   #5
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I can see the light hearted fun in this to a certain extent but is it not just a little bit negative.
I'm sure most of us would like to see new buildings come about in the city centre especially, both residential and commercial.
Indeed some of us will make our livings from these projects. (I am not connected with the Metropole pictured above by the way.)
Why go out of our way to appear over critical, judgemental and mean spirited. We could end up discouraging the very people that the forum should be attracting i.e. the professionals that come together to make these buildings happen.

But.....seeing as you raised the subject........the Unite student accommodation on High Street at the end of Ingram Street is no Raddison Hotel.
I'm glad it is there though as the impact it is having on the famous old street is already discernable in terms of the street level activity. Jut a pity it is somewhat bland.
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Old December 5th, 2005, 04:16 PM   #6
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Seriously though what would get my vote are a whole series of spec residential developments heading out into the southside.

First up the one on the corner of Albert Drive and Pollokshaws road opposite St Ninians and along from the Tramway. Oh dear! Not only is the experience entirely forgettable, the way it turns the corner is so ham fisted. To add insult to injury its located right next door to, and so detracts from, Cooper Cromar's good reworking of the former Ordinance survey building. What's worse is that this is just the precursor of things to come in this area as Eglinton toll is scheduled to get roughly 1500 flats plonked on it over the next few years. No masterplan in place so all developments doing their own thing... Cacophony beckons. This doesn't bode well.

Next up the new block between McDonalds and the Hidden Gardens on Pollokshaws road. Had potential, but I understand that cost cutting included cutting the architects from the job before the design was complete and a detail package in place. Surprise surprise the results are there for everyone to see. Feel very sorry for the people who bought off plan here.
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Old December 5th, 2005, 04:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gweilo
Ha ha! The Roo meter! Classic!

You know what I'd do?

Carpet bomb it with Virgina creeper.

Lots of it....

Then maybe we'd just not notice the f**ker
"The physician can bury his mistakes, but the architect can only advise his client to plant vines" - Frank Lloyd Wright
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Old December 5th, 2005, 04:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murdomac
I can see the light hearted fun in this to a certain extent but is it not just a little bit negative.
I'm sure most of us would like to see new buildings come about in the city centre especially, both residential and commercial.
Indeed some of us will make our livings from these projects. (I am not connected with the Metropole pictured above by the way.)
Why go out of our way to appear over critical, judgemental and mean spirited. We could end up discouraging the very people that the forum should be attracting i.e. the professionals that come together to make these buildings happen.
It is to an extent a bit of light hearted relief to what can be a heavy suject at times. But i want Glasgow to be a successful city with a vibrant economy.

The Built Environment is the heartbeat of a cities economy. We all have a duty to get it right. If some developer wants to come to and build in Glasgow, then great we should do everthing to encourage it.

But hey guys let's not let the guard down and let some of the stuff that is ongoing happen again. We are trying to rebuild a city, do we want our present generation of kids to be fleeing the nest as far as possible as has happened in the past, or be asking the same question as many of us have asked of the previous generation. That is why the hell did we build that?
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Old December 5th, 2005, 04:50 PM   #9
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Gweilo.

"cost cutting includes cutting the architects from the job"

It must be design and build with the architects resisting the value engineering that the contractors are insisting on.

It is a system that has some very basic flaws that do not lend themselves to good finishing.
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Old December 5th, 2005, 04:55 PM   #10
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Having read murdomac's post I am sensitive to what you say. I'm quite sure everyone started out here with the best of intentions. Just seems that anything worthwhile got so diluted along the way that it makes any value of these buildings contribute to their environment and the city questionable. The irony being that someone probably put a lot of effort into stripping this stuff out to keep a lid on costs. If only all that effort had been directed towards a more conducive end goal. Maybe then, we should call this award the curse of value engineering?
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Old December 5th, 2005, 04:58 PM   #11
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Sorry that last post from me was in response to your previous post murdomac.

With regards to your last one:

Quote:
Gweilo.

"cost cutting includes cutting the architects from the job"

It must be design and build with the architects resisting the value engineering that the contractors are insisting on.

It is a system that has some very basic flaws that do not lend themselves to good finishing.
No I'm serious! After he'd got his planning the developer dumped the architects from the job and decided to detail it himself to save money.
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Old December 5th, 2005, 05:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gweilo
............ Maybe then, we should call this award the curse of value engineering?
Nah, let's not get too serious let's keep it as "Leave the scaffold up".

Value Engineering is a bit of a curse, but you need to know how to deal with it or leave it well alone, or you will end up with false economies - every time.

In too many projects recently that i have been invoved in, i have witnessed both members of the Construction Team and eager to please Design Team go down the wrong path.

Value Engineering should not really, if applied properly, have a detrimental impact on the performance or intended aesthetic of an Architect's Design.

Granted it has went over the top now in some instances with buildings being pared back to the bone.

However, let's us not blame Value Engineering for buildings such as Metropole, that looks as if it has been designed in the mid eighties, been dusted down off the shelf and had a couple of clay tiles slapped on it.

Maybe that is a bit mean. But i don't like chocolate covered raisins and i don't like Metropole.
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Old December 5th, 2005, 05:45 PM   #13
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maybe metropole was put there by undercover rumjummers in order to make their CHQ dev look half-decent.

murdomac: just can't get my head around your comments. Metropole is a disaster in terms of urban design, aesthetics and build quality.

so . . .

we should want developers to come here and see the hostile reaction such utter rubbish receives from people who care genuinely about their city’s environment and future development.

Often i look back at many of the awful developments that were thrown up in the '70s and '80s and wonder, 'how the hell did that get through?'

as one new pile of shit is planted on our city grid after another, i find myself wondering in the same way.

I spy a tangent, i'm going for a walk along it....

y'know - GCC gets lots of lolly for dumping decrepit fairground rides upon every wide enough ped precinct in the city - should we applaud this because it stuffs the council's biscuit tin with cash that can be used for improving the city;s environment or services?

Should we simply smile and cheer at every sign of commercial activity in the city?

socceroo: interesting post there about value engineering. I interviewed Chris Stewart architects recently - on its Wedge building - and architect Jude Barber explained that because the QS was keyed into the design process and because choice of materials is something CSA take very seriously, the Wedge ably survived the cost-cutting - or value engineering - exercise. Although, perhaps most importantly to the whole process, was the presence of an independent Clerk of Works who valiantly fought tooth and nail on behalf of the architects and their design intentions.

anyway . . .

leave the scaff up on . . . i dunno actually!
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Old December 5th, 2005, 06:11 PM   #14
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what gets me is... why the cascading phenomenon?

Glasgow harbour...QE3...and that one at the start of the thread.

cascading went out with the Pharos...whats next ? helter skelter slide on the P&P behive ?
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Old December 5th, 2005, 07:10 PM   #15
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Haha love the idea of this thread - I agree with Spacey - why shouldn't we be allowed to berate some of the steaming piles of shit that have been thrown up in our city over the last couple of years?


Metropole is awful, but Victoria Halls and its taller cousin sitting on the edge of the M8 are without doubt THE worst development we've had in the city for quite some time. Such a prominent positon. Such a fucking embarrasment. Grrrrr.




And I know I'm gona get slated for this, but that bloody Icon on Clyde Street still does absolutely nothing for me. 'Twas a big mistake I tell you. A very big mistake.


Aurora looked much better in the renders
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Old December 5th, 2005, 07:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boy David
And I know I'm gona get slated for this, but that bloody Icon on Clyde Street still does absolutely nothing for me. 'Twas a big mistake I tell you. A very big mistake.
Well let me the first. I love it. In my own design work this semester, the cladding on my building wasn't entirely dissimilar to the icon.

It will look less out of place once the unicorn is up (in terms of height...)
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Old December 5th, 2005, 08:03 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maccoinnich
Well let me the first. I love it. In my own design work this semester, the cladding on my building wasn't entirely dissimilar to the icon.

It will look less out of place once the unicorn is up (in terms of height...)
THE ICON
I quite like it, it's a decent wee building. The Architecture is sound. It is a good example of a building that could have went wrong through Value Engineering but apparently did not. The detailing is good and the quality of workmanship is very good.

As maccoinnich says, once the Clyde Street is balanced out with other quality modern buildings such as the Unicorn it will sit better. When compared to Jury's Hotel and Metropole it does it for me.

The Icon must have cost a few bob mind you, i thought they were keeping the Tower Crane up as a feature.

Last edited by Socceroo; December 5th, 2005 at 08:35 PM.
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Old December 5th, 2005, 08:35 PM   #18
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I only hope these also serve as nuclear bunkers...
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Old December 5th, 2005, 08:48 PM   #19
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C'mon Vlad, the thread is supposed to be "Leave the scaffold up award". These buildings have not even started yet.

I like the scale of them, although i hope the white bits are not Powerwall Render. And is that timber cladding...a bit of cedar i see on the balconies...mmm......some glass blocks and we have got the full set.

Homes for the future has still got a lot to answer for

All in all it is not the worst i've seen.
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Old December 5th, 2005, 09:02 PM   #20
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They could just get as far as the scaffolding and then give up
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