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Old April 16th, 2014, 08:12 PM   #10081
SomeKindOfBug
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Well they're 8-10 points ahead with Ed Miliband as leader and Ed Balls as chancellor. Imagine how far ahead they'd be with actual politicians in their place?
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Old April 16th, 2014, 08:48 PM   #10082
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The Thames Hub Airport is costed at £20 billion, or £20,016,506,000 to be exact.

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Old April 16th, 2014, 09:43 PM   #10083
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And the Olympics were expected to cost 3 billion pounds. First rule of government spending. Everything goes over budget.
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Old April 16th, 2014, 11:19 PM   #10084
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£20 billion+ from "national" (by which the gov't means London) infrastructure spending when the number of people depending on food banks and having their benefits slashed is at unprecedented levels would be the height of immorality. But, therefore, it wouldn't really surprise me from this government.

@FrancisCrickInstitute, didn't realise there was the death of a construction worker there last Nov, as this article details: http://www.theguardian.com/business/...y-construction

... nevertheless, that aside a fantastic project and great to see it progressing so well.
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Old April 16th, 2014, 11:25 PM   #10085
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Quote:
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And the Olympics were expected to cost 3 billion pounds. First rule of government spending. Everything goes over budget.
Terminal 5, on time and budget. Crossrail, on time and budget. HS1, on time and budget. Thameslink Programme, on time and budget. London Gateway Port, on time and budget. And so on.

Apologies for being defensive over this country's construction industry but recent evidence demonstrates that we do well on big ticket infrastructure.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 12:02 AM   #10086
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Or we could expand Birmingham airport which is ready and waiting but not being used in the capacity that as a nation it should be. It'll also be as close to London with HS2 as the Thames estuary airport. It's by far the most logical answer yet is continually overlooked as it doesn't have the name London in it.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 12:52 AM   #10087
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The airports commission ruled that out as an option for increasing air capacity in the London & South East region.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 03:40 PM   #10088
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Or we could expand Birmingham airport which is ready and waiting but not being used in the capacity that as a nation it should be. It'll also be as close to London with HS2 as the Thames estuary airport. It's by far the most logical answer yet is continually overlooked as it doesn't have the name London in it.
It might be over-spending but I think they should do both...

Birmingham has so much potential - especially with HS2.

The only problem is that there isn't much international business there... no dedicated Finance District or any plans to build one. Seems like Birmingham isn't doing much to sell the idea despite it being quite logical.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 03:44 PM   #10089
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Quote:
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Or we could expand Birmingham airport which is ready and waiting but not being used in the capacity that as a nation it should be. It'll also be as close to London with HS2 as the Thames estuary airport. It's by far the most logical answer yet is continually overlooked as it doesn't have the name London in it.
The only thing the Birmingham proposal has going for it is a relatively central location for the rest of the UK. However if that was such an important factor, a lot more services would be provided from Birmingham now, given the UK's decentralised and highly competitive air travel market. Why aren't they provided now? It's obvious really. The main destination for the UK's inbound traffic is London. The main source of the UK's outbound traffic is London. Locating the national hub in Birmingham would mean an awful lot of heavily subsidised high speed rail journeys to make it viable. Oh and you'd have to close Heathrow and Gatwick too. (If we didn't, then which airline would be the first to voluntarily commit commercial suicide by relocating to Birmingham?) Closing Heathrow and Gatwick would mean a loss of the three busiest runways in the world. That means you'd have to add at least four new runways to Birmingham to enjoy any net increase in runway capacity. Frankly the whole plan is ludicous.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 04:13 PM   #10090
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Prime Place | Greenwich SE10

Official website: http://www.primeplacegreenwich.com/


Project facts
  • Cost: £60 million
  • Homes: 181
  • Developer: Willmott Dixon and the Hyde Group

Construction update by Core Rising:






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Old April 17th, 2014, 04:18 PM   #10091
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The Movement | Greenwich SE10

Official website: http://www.themovementgreenwich.com/


Project facts
  • Cost: £65 million
  • Homes: 358
  • Developer: Cathedral Group

Construction update by Core Rising:






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Old April 17th, 2014, 04:20 PM   #10092
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^ that looks great. Didn't even know it existed. Nice work as usual SE9.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 04:24 PM   #10093
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Greenwich Square | Greenwich SE10

Official website: http://www.greenwichsquare-london.com/


Project facts
  • Cost: £225 million
  • Homes: 645
  • Developer: Hadley and Mace

Construction update by Core Rising:






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Old April 17th, 2014, 04:28 PM   #10094
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Stockwell Street | Greenwich SE10

Official website: http://www.gre.ac.uk/stockwell-street


Project facts
  • Cost: £76 million
  • Developer: University of Greenwich



Construction update by Core Rising:





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Old April 17th, 2014, 04:31 PM   #10095
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Quote:
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The airports commission ruled that out as an option for increasing air capacity in the London & South East region.
Yes, but that doesn't mean it was the "right" decision. In fact it was evident from all the evidence that it was the absolute wrong decision based purely on the fact it wasn't in south east of the UK.

Also - The Airport Commission rules out Boris Island so it's quite a contradictory comment.

What is the point of creating a 100 million per annum facility at Heathrow - investing over £50b during it's life cycle to close it down and spend another £20b on a new thames estuary airport when Birmingham has capacity to increase it's size by up to 75m at one single cost??

You would be spending £70b replacing a 80m airport with 105m airport.

A net gain of just 25m customers for £70b pounds. £28,000 per new user.

Or you could spend £10b on investment and infrastructure in central England that is ready to be built now and increase UK aviation capacity by 66m @ £1,515 per user.

18.5 times less expensive and 20 years sooner to deliver.

In time of austerity do you not think logically "value" should be a key indicator of decisions made that effect the country as a whole?

Currently investment in UK transport sees each person in London and the South East have £700 spent to £110 in the Midlands.

We're the same people, we're all Englishman.

The Midlands is the manufacturing hotbed of the country. It is the only area of the UK with a trade surplus with China.

Yet everyone has to fly from London?? Doesn't seem right to me.

If London is going to support the the UK aviation growth that the airport commission has so strongly decided (despite the proof of much needed growth elsewhere) then invest in the current airport and infrastructure.

Thames Estuary is an unwarranted expense. An expense that would displace hundreds of thousands of jobs from Heathrow that would have to be moved to a different area, where as expansion of Birmingham (which is ready to go - not in 10 years or 15 years like the current options) would 'create' tens of thousands of jobs and give the UK 2 aviation hubs. Not just one.

It's that simple and logical. The rest of the UK could see it bar the Airport Commission.

By the time a Thames Estuary airport even breaks ground Birmingham could have quadrupled in size to 36 million per annum through it's own development (not government funded) By 2050 it could be running at 75m for not even half the cost of a new airport.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 04:58 PM   #10096
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Heathrow and Gatwick are running at capacity, whereas Birmingham Airport isn't. Logic dictates that if there was passenger and aviation demand, Birmingham would pick up the slack. In reality it doesn't.

Official statistics demonstrate that Londoners have the highest propensity to fly in the country by a great margin, with residents of the south east of England second. Official statistics also demonstrate that London is the most common destination for inbound travellers by a great margin, with the south east of England also second.

The 'full' London Heathrow is in such high demand that due to its capacity constraints, airlines shed certain routes to focus on those that deliver the highest returns. Do those shed routes get redistributed to Birmingham? No, to Paris, Frankfurt and Amsterdam. Hence we see London (and the UK by extension) fall behind the continental hubs in the number of destinations served. In the United Kingdom, it's London's airports are running at capacity. It's Londoners and those in its commuter belt that fly most. Therefore it's understandable that the greatest need for a capacity increase is in the London area.

Regarding the point concerning regional transport spending per head: Regional transport spend per head = Amount Spent on Transport ÷ Region's Resident Population

For London, that figure don't take into account the millions of overseas visitors that use London's transportation systems. It also doesn't take into account the millions of people per day that live outside Greater London but use its transport systems daily. It's also worth noting that London contributes far more per head to the government's accounts than any other region, with the South East second. In fact, London and the South East is the only part of the country that contributes more than it takes out.

Personally I'm open to either an expansion of Heathrow or the construction of a Thames Estuary Airport. Having flown to many places as a regular traveller and having studied different airport projects, the Thames Estuary Airport project is the vision that excites me most. I just wish that we had the same attitude to such engineering solutions as the Victorians did.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 06:47 PM   #10097
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Quote:
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Heathrow and Gatwick are running at capacity, whereas Birmingham Airport isn't. Logic dictates that if there was passenger and aviation demand, Birmingham would pick up the slack. In reality it doesn't.

Official statistics demonstrate that Londoners have the highest propensity to fly in the country by a great margin, with residents of the south east of England second. Official statistics also demonstrate that London is the most common destination for inbound travellers by a great margin, with the south east of England also second.

The 'full' London Heathrow is in such high demand that due to its capacity constraints, airlines shed certain routes to focus on those that deliver the highest returns. Do those shed routes get redistributed to Birmingham? No, to Paris, Frankfurt and Amsterdam. Hence we see London (and the UK by extension) fall behind the continental hubs in the number of destinations served. In the United Kingdom, it's London's airports are running at capacity. It's Londoners and those in its commuter belt that fly most. Therefore it's understandable that the greatest need for a capacity increase is in the London area.

Regarding the point concerning regional transport spending per head: Regional transport spend per head = Amount Spent on Transport ÷ Region's Resident Population

For London, that figure don't take into account the millions of overseas visitors that use London's transportation systems. It also doesn't take into account the millions of people per day that live outside Greater London but use its transport systems daily. It's also worth noting that London contributes far more per head to the government's accounts than any other region, with the South East second. In fact, London and the South East is the only part of the country that contributes more than it takes out.

Personally I'm open to either an expansion of Heathrow or the construction of a Thames Estuary Airport. Having flown to many places as a regular traveller and having studied different airport projects, the Thames Estuary Airport project is the vision that excites me most. I just wish that we had the same attitude to such engineering solutions as the Victorians did.
Absolutely fantastic statement...

Kind of faultless.... Althought it wouldn't be a bad idea to create a larger airport in the Midlands - it is more logical to keep it in the South East.

End of the day it'll be a London airport. If B'ham wants to build another large airport then so be it... but it must come out of a Bham/Midlands budget allocation surely?
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Old April 17th, 2014, 08:33 PM   #10098
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End of the day it'll be a London airport. If B'ham wants to build another large airport then so be it... but it must come out of a Bham/Midlands budget allocation surely?
I'm not sure the Bham/Midlands allocation of the infrastructure budget would cover a single terminal of a new airport (see the proportionate spending above) ...

The problem with this country is that everything is centred around London. And I say this as someone who loves the city. But it receives many times more spending per head than anywhere else in the country for just about everything, which of course produces greater economic activity, which in turns is used as justification for it continuing to receive such a large amount.

For instance, I can't imagine that any other city than London would receive £4.1bn from national infrastructure spending for a project (Crossrail) that will exclusively benefit inhabitants of that city (source) ...
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Old April 17th, 2014, 09:01 PM   #10099
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The problem with this country is that everything is centred around London. And I say this as someone who loves the city. But it receives many times more spending per head than anywhere else in the country for just about everything, which of course produces greater economic activity, which in turns is used as justification for it continuing to receive such a large amount.
Politicians think about economic return, man. Keeping the country economically even would mean wasting money, which can be efficiently spent in London.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 11:32 PM   #10100
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Politicians think about economic return, man. Keeping the country economically even would mean wasting money, which can be efficiently spent in London.
Can't tell if joking?
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