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Old December 8th, 2017, 09:37 AM   #3981
bench_mark_2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post

The plan described seems to be:

Liverpool - Warrington - Manchester Airport: new line
Wouldn't it be wiser if this line is constructed for speed of 250 mph and with continental clearances?
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Old December 8th, 2017, 10:48 AM   #3982
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Given 20miles max between each of Liverpool-Warrington-Manchester 250mph would be a speed that would probably never be reached and if it were it was, it would only be for a tiny distance and probably not the most sensible way of spending money.
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Old December 8th, 2017, 11:33 AM   #3983
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I'd say building new lines to at least continental clearance is almost certainly going to be worthwhile.
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Old December 8th, 2017, 11:34 AM   #3984
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Quote:
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…Fundamentally, ONS admins their data is experimental and unreliable. No amount of protest can get away from this point.
Except the ONS have not claimed that the data is unreliable. I’ll post this again:

This is the first time that we have published country and regional statistics on public sector revenue and expenditure and, as such, it is appropriate that the statistics being released are described as Experimental Statistics. This highlights to users that we are still working on further developing the methodologies used in producing these statistics. It should be emphasised that an Experimental Statistics label does not mean that the statistics are of low quality, it only signifies that the statistics are novel and still being developed.

What is even your underlying point to your doubts over the ONS research? Do you doubt that London generates a surplus and is thus incapable of self-funding projects? This whole debate with you came about because you erroneously claimed that I wanted London to receive central government support (still awaiting your retraction on that), when what I want is increased devolution, retention of tax revenue and ability to dictate tax and spend policies for cities in the UK, much as is common in other countries. Or is it that you don’t believe in devolution?
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Old December 8th, 2017, 02:42 PM   #3985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake-potato View Post
Except the ONS have not claimed that the data is unreliable. I’ll post this again:

This is the first time that we have published country and regional statistics on public sector revenue and expenditure and, as such, it is appropriate that the statistics being released are described as Experimental Statistics. This highlights to users that we are still working on further developing the methodologies used in producing these statistics. It should be emphasised that an Experimental Statistics label does not mean that the statistics are of low quality, it only signifies that the statistics are novel and still being developed.

What is even your underlying point to your doubts over the ONS research? Do you doubt that London generates a surplus and is thus incapable of self-funding projects? This whole debate with you came about because you erroneously claimed that I wanted London to receive central government support (still awaiting your retraction on that), when what I want is increased devolution, retention of tax revenue and ability to dictate tax and spend policies for cities in the UK, much as is common in other countries. Or is it that you don’t believe in devolution?
For each sentence you misguidedly hang your hat on, I and others have highlighted a handful from the same source (ONS) to the opposite effect. You know you are making an argument on experimental data and no amount of lengthy huffing and puffing can change that.

You have seen my position above, if you want to keep chasing your own tail that is a matter for you.
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Old December 8th, 2017, 05:18 PM   #3986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Darwin View Post
Given 20miles max between each of Liverpool-Warrington-Manchester 250mph would be a speed that would probably never be reached and if it were it was, it would only be for a tiny distance and probably not the most sensible way of spending money.
I can just imagine a train driver desperately applying full throttle and urging the speedometer to reach 400 kph before instantly slamming on the brakes in blind panic at the upcoming curve into Manchester Airport.

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Originally Posted by Dobbo View Post
I'd say building new lines to at least continental clearance is almost certainly going to be worthwhile.
If it's going to be a whole new line from Liverpool to Leeds they could always have a Liverpool-Leeds service with captive stock. There are plenty of decent double decker trains on offer at the sort of speeds that are likely on such a line. However much new tracks are laid, it makes total sense to have the larger clearances our mainland neighbours are used to. Otherwise we'd be spending money on an outdated design that isn't fit for purpose.
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Old December 8th, 2017, 10:05 PM   #3987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Darwin View Post
Given 20miles max between each of Liverpool-Warrington-Manchester 250mph would be a speed that would probably never be reached and if it were it was, it would only be for a tiny distance and probably not the most sensible way of spending money.
HS2 Ltd expect their trains to take 40km/25 miles to reach 360km/ 224mph and the the signalling implies 16km/10 miles to stop at an acceptable rate for comfort.

Really Liverpool - Manchester only needs about 140mph maximum, to cut another minute off would need a lot more energy and would not be cost effective.

I do expect new NPR tracks to have continental gauge clearances at least - but not the platforms.
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Old Yesterday, 09:42 PM   #3988
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Sunday Times are reporting that NPR will be going via Bradford. No link due to paywall, but article has been repeated at "the other place".
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Old Yesterday, 09:43 PM   #3989
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Sunday Times - At last, faster trains to arrive in north

Leak by the Sunday Times of the TfN plans. Very disappointingly they state that 'Manchester-Leeds' is to be the centrepiece. Why is the London regime so determined to destroy Liverpool?
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Old Yesterday, 10:32 PM   #3990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merswy View Post
Sunday Times - At last, faster trains to arrive in north

Leak by the Sunday Times of the TfN plans. Very disappointingly they state that 'Manchester-Leeds' is to be the centrepiece. Why is the London regime so determined to destroy Liverpool?
Are you looking at the same map as me? Liverpool is clearly on HS3, which also provides your much desired direct link to HS2. I would have thought you'd be pleased as punch at the news.
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Old Yesterday, 10:48 PM   #3991
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It's good that it's on the map, but there's a huge risk of it being deemed low priority (when it is actually of huge importance). That could mean years more of waiting, by which time the damage would be seriously inflicted.
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Old Yesterday, 10:58 PM   #3992
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Great cities remain great cities, even during times of desolation and decay, and they have a habit of coming back again and again, and against all odds.
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Old Yesterday, 11:08 PM   #3993
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.
Rough sleepers


https://roundme.com/tour/215240/view/594625/


(And it opened today)

.
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Old Yesterday, 11:12 PM   #3994
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Remind me what the function of the HS2 link into the Leeds existing station is for? (I assume that is what the graphic is showing.)


And is it definitely from the west?
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Old Yesterday, 11:26 PM   #3995
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.

Ordsall Chording:





At 8.42am on Sunday 10 December 2017, the first passenger train crossed the Ordsall Chord.
Years of hard work were realised as the Northern train travelled over the world’s first asymmetrical
rail bridge. Rail Minister Paul Maynard alongside representatives from Network Rail, Northern,
TfGM, Transport for the North and contractors travelled on the second train and took the six minute
journey from Manchester Victoria to Oxford Road. The chord will connect Manchester’s three main
stations as well as create new direct links from the north to Manchester Airport.


.
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