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Old August 7th, 2017, 10:27 PM   #10061
dd79
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The city really is a 'work in progress' at the moment and while there are some fantastic things being achieved, there is such a long way to go. Small things like keeping the place clean would make all the difference but that has to come from civic pride as well as a well led LA. Government cuts is a tired argument when MCC can waste £1.5m because an architect can't design the building they've been shortlisted to deliver. Walked through SPS last weekend and while it's much better, it's just a place to pass through. When the retail units for 1 and 2 are fully open then it will improve a bit but those arches of the THX really need turning into cafes and restaurants for some real vibrancy. Spent a bit of time in town these last couple of weeks and the striking thing is how poor the street interaction through most of the city is, too many streets to nowhere. Great city on the up but lots more to b done.
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Old August 7th, 2017, 10:53 PM   #10062
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Official Manchester Thread 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wub View Post
So, this is the entrance to Spring Gardens on Market Street on a busy Saturday:

IMG_20170805_150023917_HDR by Wub 1234, on Flickr

As you can see, lots of people in Market Street but a double-width food van almost wholly cuts off Spring Gardens from the street. You can get round the sides if you need to, but you might not know it's even an option if you were unobservant.

Now, do you think Spring Gardens is busy or quiet? You would be surprised:

IMG_20170805_150223282 by Wub 1234, on Flickr

It's actually not that quiet, with maybe fifteen people in this short stretch! But note, almost everybody in this picture is walking toward Market Street (or sat down). They've all come from the direction of King Street, or thereabouts, where there are no blockages to pedestrians.

Were the food vans removed then, presumably, at least the same number would be walking away from Market Street. That would make Spring Gardens relatively busy, with enough footfall to support retail. Moreover, these new pedestrians would eventually reach upper King Street where, going with the most obvious direction, would turn right and down toward lower King Street and then Deansgate.

There's a great potential with Spring Gardens, and with Brown Street, to tie together several bits of the city centre retail jigsaw. All it needs is a city council with a little vision and the willingness to try something new: get rid of those food vans.

I fully agree, the position and impact of those vans is like something from a bygone era.

From Piccadilly Gardens down to the bottom of Market Street every single side street is blocked off by one.

This is the sort of tactic you'd expect in a city in decline where the council try and block off empty, desolate side streets and keep everyone trapped in the one place where all the shops are.

They should be encouraging footfall away from Market Street not preventing it, and allowing visitors to explore the nooks and crannies of the streets which is one of the joys of visiting a big city.

The knock on effect would surely be that the rise in footfall in these streets then makes it more feasible to rent the units in the side streets out to more retail and leisure and Market Street and the Arndale start to blend into the city more effectively.

Sounds somewhat David Icke-esque but I wouldn't even be amazed if the owners of the Arndale/Market Street units had something to do with those units given how strongly they discourage movement away from this area.
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Old August 7th, 2017, 10:58 PM   #10063
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monkey, didn't you suggest it in the first place?
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Old August 7th, 2017, 11:19 PM   #10064
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Quote:
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monkey, didn't you suggest it in the first place?

Suggest what the conspiracy thing? Maybe... I have a bad track record for forgetting what I've posted on here and saying it again.
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Old August 7th, 2017, 11:54 PM   #10065
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Quick update.

I've now got most of the SSC usernames and full names together.

28 People/forum members in total have asked to go on the tour.

I'm still waiting for 4 full names. Apologies if I haven't asked for your full name via PM. Another PM has just been sent.

1. Chrisyd
2. GShutty
3. Boyaloud
4. Jjmoore1

Full names received.

1. Trident Rider
2. Rick9525
3. IamtheStig
4. Mez
5. Wub
6. Cherguevara
7. City Veteran
8. Man Med
9. VDB
10. Mooned
11. Jamesrcochrane
12. Jabezlad
13. TamaSuperstar
14. Caiman
15. OCMCR
16. Tomestott
17. AC1
18. Heijbs
19. Bylina
20. Tiasb
21. Hussla
22. Threefour34
23. Flange
24. Purple Cat


If there are any other SSC forum members who would like to go on the tour please PM ASAP. Once I have the 4 outstanding names I will contact Mike Ingall and send the list of usernames and full names to him. Once I have done that I won't be taking anymore names for the No1 Spinningfields tour.

Thanks.

jrb.
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Old August 8th, 2017, 12:25 AM   #10066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wub View Post
The statue was originally erected by a Soviet government, which used the red flag as a key symbol, in order to glorify one of the intellectual founders of Communism. If the statue is history, or art, then fine. But if it's politics then I want it gone. The legacy of the Soviet Union does not permit us to blithely reerect their statues. That some people on the left wing would use a Soviet statue as a rallying point says a lot about them.
I am aware of the statue's history, but I don't think that makes political use of it unacceptable as long as those making such use are not actually advocating for gulags, forced collective farming or a secret police force. Given that Engels was not responsible for the horrors of the Soviet Union, objecting to the statue solely because of who manufactured it seems an overreaction; even if you think it makes using it as a political rallying point distasteful others clearly don't agree.

Statues of political figures are art, history and political symbols all at once; it can't be any other way. I don't think re-erecting this statue has been done 'blithely' or as some kind of overt political act, but I think we have to accept that public art is for the public to do with as they please, and some of the public might have different ideas to you or me in terms of what they consider acceptable. Personally I have no problem with people who agree with Engels's philosophies using his statue as a rallying point. If you think that says something about me then you're free to think so; the beauty of living in a free political culture is that you are free to think what you like, and I am free not to give a toss about it.
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Old August 8th, 2017, 12:58 AM   #10067
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherguevara View Post
I am aware of the statue's history, but I don't think that makes political use of it unacceptable as long as those making such use are not actually advocating for gulags, forced collective farming or a secret police force. Given that Engels was not responsible for the horrors of the Soviet Union, objecting to the statue solely because of who manufactured it seems an overreaction; even if you think it makes using it as a political rallying point distasteful others clearly don't agree.
Of course Engels wasn't responsible for the horrors of the Soviet Union, though I'm glad we can agree that such horrors were real and reprehensible. However, no product can be removed from its context and we must be careful. Those holding a political rally at the statue are either hugely ignorant or disingenuous about its origins. They're free to be either, I suppose, but they've gone and done the one thing which should have been avoided and made me oppose its existence.
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Old August 8th, 2017, 01:15 AM   #10068
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Dave Haslam spoke about an Engels statute to Manchester to live outside UMIST in the 90s didnt he?
https://daviddunnico.wordpress.com/2...ls-comes-home/


Quote:
Why would Manchester want a second hand statue of Engels? It’s not the first time they have tried to get one. Dave Haslam in his book Manchester, England tells of Christine Derbyshire from Central Manchester Development Corporation, a 1980s-90s redevelopment quango. She watched statues falling on television and had the idea of getting a surplus Engels from Manchester’s twin city of Leningrad, now called St Petersburg again (see What’s In A Name? in issue 8 of Now Then Manchester available as a pdf here). One possible site for a statue was in front of the disused fire station near Piccadilly train station. The plan came to nothing and the fire station is still un-re-developed.

Had the plan gone ahead, it would not have been the first time Manchester had bought a statue with ‘one careful owner’. Abraham Lincoln was, like Engels, a hero to some, a villain to others. He was sculpted in bronze by George Grey Barnard and intended to stand outside the Houses of Parliament. But the statue was judged not statesmanlike enough, so London ordered up another one. Manchester got the old one and managed to find a link between Manchester and the US President in the form of a letter he wrote to the cotton workers of Lancashire. It stood in Platt Fields from 1919 and moved to its present location in Lincoln Square in 1986. If Lincoln’s links with Manchester were slightly tenuous, Engels was positively chained to the city.

Friedrich Engels was born in 1820 into a wealthy family in Barmen, Germany, but the 20 years he spent as a radical in Manchester are the reason for statues of him. He first came here in 1842 to look after the family’s interests in Ermen and Engels, a textile firm based in Victoria Mill in Weaste, Salford. His father hoped the move would cure the young Engels of his radical politics. It had the opposite effect. Manchester was the world’s first modern, industrial city. Here, the new class of capitalist factory owners extracted as much profit as they could from workers, whose life expectancy fell as profits rose. It was here where the conflict between capital and labour was sharpest. Manchester was then, as it is now, a radical city. Engels described the place at that time as, “The seat of the most powerful unions, the central point of Chartism [a petition calling for basic rights such as the vote], the place which numbers the most socialists”. Engels lived a double life – a respectable member of the family firm by day, radical by night.

Engels had already met Karl Marx, with whom he would collaborate and support as a patron for the rest of Marx’s life and whose work he would continue for a dozen more years, until his own death in 1895. In Manchester, Engels began the other central relationship of his life when he set up a clandestine home with Mary Burns, a working class woman of Irish descent. She guided him amongst the city’s impoverished working class. He added these first hand observations to meticulous research and the beginnings of the political philosophy he and Marx would develop. This would become his classic book The Condition of the Working Class in England. It was published in 1845 in German, but not available in English until 1887. Historian Eric Hobsbawm described it as, “By far the best single book on the working class of the period. It remains an indispensable work and a landmark in the fight for the emancipation of humanity”.

In the 1960s, a block of high rise flats in Barton was named Engels House by Salford Council and there are a couple of blue plaques, but it was only last year that Engels was honoured with a more concrete memorial – actually it was fiberglass and some critics say it dishonours his importance.

The buzzword of the defunct CMDC, who didn’t manage to get us an Engels in the 1990s, was ‘redevelopment’. Today, its private sector equivalent is ‘regeneration’ and sculptors in search of public commissions have to make work that “engages with communities”. In the case of an artwork for Salford University’s new Adelphi arts campus, this meant a five-metre tall fiberglass sculpture called Engels’ Beard. The design came from Jai Redman of Engine, a Salford arts production company. He too had read in Dave Haslam’s book about trying to get an Engels statue, and decided to make his own. Redman’s sculpture inexplicably incorporates a climbing wall in its rear elevation. er
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Old August 8th, 2017, 01:37 AM   #10069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wub View Post
Of course Engels wasn't responsible for the horrors of the Soviet Union, though I'm glad we can agree that such horrors were real and reprehensible. However, no product can be removed from its context and we must be careful. Those holding a political rally at the statue are either hugely ignorant or disingenuous about its origins. They're free to be either, I suppose, but they've gone and done the one thing which should have been avoided and made me oppose its existence.
I don't understand why you think this is "the one thing that should have been avoided"? You seem not to appreciate that your distaste for people using this statue as a site of political activism based on its provenance is entirely arbitrary. It's not like neo-Nazis making the Fuhrer bunker a shrine; it's left wing democrats waving the symbol of that ideology near a statue of one of its founders. Yes that ideology spun off in other harmful ways, but that doesn't make either Engels or Mancunian left-wingers culpable for them.

Given that you're presenting yourself as an opponent of totalitarian ideology, it strikes me as odd that you think all artistic or historic value in this statue has been undermined because some people view it as a site of protest; there's something almost Maoist about that.
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Old August 9th, 2017, 10:40 PM   #10070
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Update.

I've just Tweeted Mike Ingall.

I will send the list of (30) SSC members who want to go on the tour when I get a reply.

I'm still waiting for surnames for Chrisyd and Jjmoore1.

MCR9. I have sent you a PM. Can you send me your full name ASAP. Thanks.
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Old August 10th, 2017, 11:43 AM   #10071
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Update.

I've emailed Mike the list of People who want to go on the tour.

Once I have a date and time off Mike for the tour/s, I will PM those on the list.

Many thanks.
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Old August 12th, 2017, 02:46 AM   #10072
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Old August 12th, 2017, 08:48 PM   #10073
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Why does it stink in town today?
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Old August 12th, 2017, 09:56 PM   #10074
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Have you been out mouthing the imaginary crime BS you usually reserve for here allrise?
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Old August 12th, 2017, 10:06 PM   #10075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllRise View Post
Why does it stink in town today?
Its the waste recycling plant near Trafford quays been really bad all week..could smell it in Longsight, Town and pretty much everywhere today
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Old August 13th, 2017, 12:53 AM   #10076
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An interesting article on the FT:


"London buy-to-let investors look north to Manchester"


https://www.ft.com/content/761a35e6-...8-edda0bcbc928

Mostly found it interesting because it mentions the building boom that is taking place in Manchester. It's great giving more people some insight into what's happening, as no one outside of these forums really has an idea how much the city is changing.
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Old August 13th, 2017, 12:57 AM   #10077
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Have you been out mouthing the imaginary crime BS you usually reserve for here allrise?
Some of us live in the real world. Enjoy your bubble.
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Old August 13th, 2017, 01:51 AM   #10078
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You live in your mum's spare room, too scared to leave due to the (imaginary) rampant crime...
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Old August 13th, 2017, 02:03 AM   #10079
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Just got the train back into Piccadilly after being in Watford all day and on the 1 mile walk back to my flat I got stabbed twice and had my phone, wallet and keys all stolen. They even stole my shoes

Nah I'm joking I was fine, as usual *touch wood*
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Old August 13th, 2017, 02:08 AM   #10080
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Just got the train back into Piccadilly after being in Watford all day and on the 1 mile walk back to my flat I got stabbed twice and had my phone, wallet and keys all stolen. They even stole my shoes

Nah I'm joking I was fine, as usual *touch wood*
The only thing worth going to Watford for is WB Studio Tour.
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