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Old August 7th, 2017, 08:30 PM   #1481
californiadreams
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Originally Posted by Knitemplar View Post
so that, and this is the crux of de Coubertin's original philosophy -- at one time in an earthling's lifetime, a magical thing called the Olympic Games will come within 500 miles of his/her existence and s/he will not HAVE to mortgage their house in order to go to some, more distant city to experience the Games. It was an improvement over the ancient Greek model when competitors and fans had to come from miles around the Mediterranean world in order to attend the events @ old Olympic.

This cost-cutting practice of returning to past hosts denies that experience to millions of inhabitants of our planet simply because of the bottom line. And I place the blame on the IOC for not putting their foot down to stop the gigantism of the Games.
I didn't know that about de Coubertin. That's an important consideration.

The tradition during Olympic ceremonies, at least over 10 years ago, was to highlight his role as creator of the modern games. Quotes of his and his image often would be flashed on screens or scoreboards. But I don't recall much or any of that occurring at the past two summer games. However, I may be wrong because TV cameras miss a lot of what's going on in a stadium.

He probably wouldn't be thrilled at the way professionalism of certain participants, such as in basketball, has entered the games and run against his belief that only amateurs should be involved.

The IOC has also allowed the event to become bloated.

Some of this needs to be factored in on whether the idealism of having the games held in places as far and wide as possible is still realistic.
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Old August 8th, 2017, 12:12 AM   #1482
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While costs have necessitated the m.o. of returning to host cities where most of the installations are already in place, this practice kills the original rationale of taking the Games to new places on the planet -- so that, and this is the crux of de Coubertin's original philosophy -- at one time in an earthling's lifetime, a magical thing called the Olympic Games will come within 500 miles of his/her existence and s/he will not HAVE to mortgage their house in order to go to some, more distant city to experience the Games. It was an improvement over the ancient Greek model when competitors and fans had to come from miles around the Mediterranean world in order to attend the events @ old Olympic.

This cost-cutting practice of returning to past hosts denies that experience to millions of inhabitants of our planet simply because of the bottom line. And I place the blame on the IOC for not putting their foot down to stop the gigantism of the Games.
A nice sentiment but not that relevant in today's world where you can fly (for example) to California from Europe for under E 300. The problem is the costs when you get there.

As for giving everyone a chance, Barcelona, Rome, Paris, London and proposals for Madrid, Milan, Germany, etc., are all in one tiny corner of the globe. So the present system isn't giving much to Africa, LatAm, or Asia in any event.
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Old August 8th, 2017, 01:15 AM   #1483
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A nice sentiment but not that relevant in today's world where you can fly (for example) to California from Europe for under E 300. The problem is the costs when you get there.

As for giving everyone a chance, Barcelona, Rome, Paris, London and proposals for Madrid, Milan, Germany, etc., are all in one tiny corner of the globe. So the present system isn't giving much to Africa, LatAm, or Asia in any event.
True to a certain extent; and of course, when the Baron conceived of the Modern Era Games, I don't know if he was up-to-date on his Jules Verne visions of later 20th-century travel. The thing is, the intention is laudable -- and I still think rotating the Games allows people to get to know other cultures in the proper setting of a global village-coming together. They just have gotten to be soooooooo big.
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Old August 8th, 2017, 03:13 PM   #1484
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https://twitter.com/REDSPORK02/statu...47984244744192



Guys/Gals...I was being maliciously attacked on twitter by 3 anti-Olympic supporters. hahahahaha.
defending LA28. They just don't like LA28.

They were gasping for "what ifs" with :LAPD>
I honestly don't get the criticism. They somehow equate LA to Rio while LA has all the facilities and the government won't be paying for them anyway. The only thing the government will be paying for is infrastructure improvements, which will benefit almost everybody, cause even if you don't take the metro, someone else will and traffic still improves.

And of course it sucks for locals who dislike sports, but you can probably take unpaid vacation, rent out your house, go to the other side of the world for 3 weeks and still make a profit.

The only thing I would fear as a local is that the profits this Olympics are going to generate are not going to you/the local government, but to the private bid committee (right?)
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Old August 8th, 2017, 09:51 PM   #1485
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I honestly don't get the criticism. They somehow equate LA to Rio while LA has all the facilities and the government won't be paying for them anyway. The only thing the government will be paying for is infrastructure improvements, which will benefit almost everybody, cause even if you don't take the metro, someone else will and traffic still improves.

And of course it sucks for locals who dislike sports, but you can probably take unpaid vacation, rent out your house, go to the other side of the world for 3 weeks and still make a profit.

The only thing I would fear as a local is that the profits this Olympics are going to generate are not going to you/the local government, but to the private bid committee (right?)
Yep, personally I agree with you, and I think many Angelenos do as well. It's a little complicated, but the anti-Olympics sentiment here in Los Angeles isn't being pushed by the usual NIMBY home-owning crowd that worries about any big event (i.e. concerns about traffic, waste of tax dollars, etc.).
Basically, the Olympics is being used as a cudgel by the far left of LA politics as a way to hit at the things they really care about. And I don't mean "left" in the American sense, with our more conservative politics (the mainstream left in the US is somewhat equivalent to the center or even center-right in Western Europe). I mean like, ACTUAL communists and anarcho-syndicalists that want to "seize the means of production" and "smash the global patriarchy/neo-colonialist agenda". These folks are against essentially ANYTHING where rich people use their money in a big public way, and have a deep abiding mistrust of the "system". In this case, the biggest issues that have gotten this group's attention is the treatment of minorities and the homeless by the LA Police Department, and the unyielding march of big money developers into what have traditionally been communities of lower income people of color. So, their argument is that even IF the Olympics would be a financial benefit to LA, it would only serve to embolden the LAPD to run the city as a police state and target disadvantaged minority communities and the homeless. In addition, they feel it would also be a giant boon to gentrifying developers who would push working class Angelenos out of their neighborhoods and replace their homes with high rise luxury condos.
So essentially, the #NOlympicsLA crowd sees the Olympics in LA as a tool to further the agenda of the ruling class of 1%-ers who want to run LA as a fiefdom for the wealthy, white and connected. You can agree with them or not! But that's basically where they are coming from
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Old August 8th, 2017, 11:15 PM   #1486
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A nice sentiment but not that relevant in today's world where you can fly (for example) to California from Europe for under E 300. The problem is the costs when you get there.

As for giving everyone a chance, Barcelona, Rome, Paris, London and proposals for Madrid, Milan, Germany, etc., are all in one tiny corner of the globe. So the present system isn't giving much to Africa, LatAm, or Asia in any event.
True, times have changed. And I know it's not comparable to visiting the Olympics itself, but these days you can watch everything on tv, internet, social media and so on.
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Old August 9th, 2017, 01:13 AM   #1487
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True, times have changed. And I know it's not comparable to visiting the Olympics itself, but these days you can watch everything on tv, internet, social media and so on.
You are right that it isn't comparable: TV/new media is much better than being there in person. That's why they put multiple video boards in the stadium, so as to make the in-person experience a little more comparable to the home experience).

Re-play, commentary, various angles, ability to skip through dead time (the great majority of time in most events). No traffic, no obnoxious people next to you, no inflated prices for food, etc. Or just change the channel if the competition is lopsided or delayed by injuries, local conditions, etc.

This is the golden age of media and the in-person experience is going to be less and less important as time goes by. Which makes it important to establish your brand worldwide, not just within 25 miles of your stadium.
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Old August 9th, 2017, 02:32 AM   #1488
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True, times have changed. And I know it's not comparable to visiting the Olympics itself, but these days you can watch everything on tv, internet, social media and so on.
Eh. Still not the same. You can't honestly say that you're an international sports fan if you haven't at least spent a few hours or done one Olympics (even if you only took in one minor event).

Actually, it's good for those who actually want to go and experience the event in the flesh.
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Old August 9th, 2017, 07:43 AM   #1489
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Eh. Still not the same. You can't honestly say that you're an international sports fan if you haven't at least spent a few hours or done one Olympics (even if you only took in one minor event).

Actually, it's good for those who actually want to go and experience the event in the flesh.
What about the billions of Chinese, Indian, Pakistani, Indonesian and other working class sports fans who can't make the trek or afford the tickets?

In any event, there aren't nearly enough seats to fill to allow 8B people, or even a small fraction of that, to attend matches after family, corporate, officials, etc., are accounted for.
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Old August 9th, 2017, 09:50 PM   #1490
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What about the billions of Chinese, Indian, Pakistani, Indonesian and other working class sports fans who can't make the trek or afford the tickets?

In any event, there aren't nearly enough seats to fill to allow 8B people, or even a small fraction of that, to attend matches after family, corporate, officials, etc., are accounted for.
Really? Just because I riffed off BdeC's original (but not central) philosphy re spreading his Modern Era Games around the planet, doesn't mean you count everyone in as interested. Just because the experience is available physically doesn't mean everyone is going to take it.
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Old August 11th, 2017, 06:27 AM   #1491
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Really? Just because I riffed off BdeC's original (but not central) philosphy re spreading his Modern Era Games around the planet, doesn't mean you count everyone in as interested. Just because the experience is available physically doesn't mean everyone is going to take it.
You said that a person can't be an "international sports fans" if he doesn't attend the Olympics, although many soccer, cricket, baseball, handball, etc., fans with minimal resources can't possible go to an Olympics in person. I think that your comment fails to recognized that status of a couple of billion people who really love sports.
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Old August 11th, 2017, 11:03 PM   #1492
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It's official!


Quote:
LA 2028‏Verified account @LA2028 1h1 hour ago

It's unanimous 🎉

The LA City Council has given approval for #LA2028 with a vote of 1️⃣2️⃣-0️⃣
https://twitter.com/LA2028

Quote:
Los Angeles City Council Vote Unanimously Approves Olympics In 2028

By Robert Livingstone | Published Aug 11, 2017 2:44 PM in Featured, 2028 Olympic Bid News
The Los Angeles City Council Friday voted in favor of approving key documents that now clears a path for LA to host the 2028 Olympic and Paralympic Games. Members supported the plans unanimously by a vote of 12-0.
Los Angeles had been bidding to host the 2024 edition of the Games but instead opted to concede that race to rival bid Paris and seek the 2028 Games along with financial concessions offered by the International Olympic Committee (IOC). Last month, LA Mayor Eric Garcetti announced the new plans, but said updated agreements and guarantees are required to move forward.

During a meeting and debate earlier Friday with the special Ad Hoc Committee on the 2024 Olympics, members voted to recommend approval of the documents to the full council.

Fridayís vote approved a new Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) that describes a working relationship between the City and a future Olympic organizing committee, including issues on governance and financial guarantees. Also endorsed was the IOCís new Host City Contract that is based on the 2024 version but includes an updated financial relationship and other elements relevant to the date change. Finally, the City Council approved a tripartite agreement among LA 2028, Paris 2024 and the IOC that sets outs the terms necessary to change up the 2024 race into a double-allocation.

The vote further permits the Mayor to sign the Host City Agreement, and allows the bid to enter into the tripartite agreement.

Had City Council voted against the new documents, LA could have continued to pursue the 2024 Games that would have come down to an IOC vote against Paris next month.

Several Olympic athletes including nine-time Olympic track champion Carl Lewis were on hand in City Hall chambers to back the bidís plans ahead of the vote.


With the further approval of the United States Olympic Committee (USOC), IOC members are expected to rubber-stamp LAís application for the 2028 Games, along with Parisí bid for the 2024 edition, at an all-members Session on September 13 in Lima, Peru.

The State of California this week agreed to transfer its planned USD $250 million funding of any potential cost overruns, with a possible increase to account for inflation, but a bill solidifying the offer wonít go to a vote until next year due to the summer recess. The City will be on the hook inf additional money is required.

An independent accountantís vetting of the revised 2028 budget is not expected to be completed for several months, an issue that has concerned opponents of the bid who were heard shouting objections during the City Hall proceedings. But that didnít stop City Council voters who were buoyed by dozens of statements of support in the special meeting of the Ad Hoc Committee. A poll last month reveled that 83 percent of Angelenos back the 2028 bid.

With City Council approvals in place, itís all but certain that both Los Angeles and Paris will be hosting their third Olympic Games next decade.
https://gamesbids.com/eng/featured/l...mpics-in-2028/


Some photos from the LA City Council vote today:



https://twitter.com/HerbJWesson/stat...34086120153088


https://twitter.com/coschaput/status/896033605855494144




https://twitter.com/LA2028


https://twitter.com/mhdcd8/status/896090422698590208


https://twitter.com/sfutterman/statu...88642485080064
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Old August 11th, 2017, 11:18 PM   #1493
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All that said, it was definitely a more combative vote today than the last time...

The #NOlympicLA folks came to the meeting today and were incensed they couldn't get public statements in. Herb Wesson on the City Council declared that since they had public debate for the 2024 vote that was adequate. On the one hand I agree, if the anti-Olympics were this motivated they should have tried and nip this in the bud a year and a half ago and not a month before the vote. That said... never a good look to silence protestors! LA Times reporter Emily Albert Reyes has a good Twitter feed for updates and video of the NOlympics protest.

The LA Times is also taking the editorial stance of "this may or may not be a good idea". Here are some articles from today and yesterday (behind a paywall):

Quote:
L.A. City Council endorses 2028 Olympics bid, accepting responsibility for any cost overruns http://lat.ms/2wQgBeG
Quote:
Op-Ed: Six reasons to worry about the 2028 Olympics
latimes.com


So wariness is starting to creep in, and the constant barrage of negative IOC news for the past five years or so is starting to make its mark.

All that said, it still feels like the city is behind the Games. The latest poll put public support at 83%, which sounds about right. And the anti-Olympics movement hasn't gained a TON of steam yet. Here is a screen grab from one of Ms. Reyes' videos showing the protest at LA City Hall:



I count... twelve protestors? Maybe a few more behind that column? In a city of 4 million people and a county of 10 million, not a lot! That said, eleven years is a bit of time, and public sentiment can sour. So it'll be on LA 2028 to continue public outreach and getting LA reassured and excited for the Olympics!
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Old August 12th, 2017, 04:36 AM   #1494
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All that said, it was definitely a more combative vote today than the last time...

The #NOlympicLA folks came to the meeting today and were incensed they couldn't get public statements in. Herb Wesson on the City Council declared that since they had public debate for the 2024 vote that was adequate. On the one hand I agree, if the anti-Olympics were this motivated they should have tried and nip this in the bud a year and a half ago and not a month before the vote. That said... never a good look to silence protestors! LA Times reporter Emily Albert Reyes has a good Twitter feed for updates and video of the NOlympics protest.

The LA Times is also taking the editorial stance of "this may or may not be a good idea". Here are some articles from today and yesterday (behind a paywall):





latimes.com


So wariness is starting to creep in, and the constant barrage of negative IOC news for the past five years or so is starting to make its mark.

All that said, it still feels like the city is behind the Games. The latest poll put public support at 83%, which sounds about right. And the anti-Olympics movement hasn't gained a TON of steam yet. Here is a screen grab from one of Ms. Reyes' videos showing the protest at LA City Hall:



I count... twelve protestors? Maybe a few more behind that column? In a city of 4 million people and a county of 10 million, not a lot! That said, eleven years is a bit of time, and public sentiment can sour. So it'll be on LA 2028 to continue public outreach and getting LA reassured and excited for the Olympics!
Good luck. This is America and LA is about 80 percent left and far left. I guarantee protests (mostly by rich white people wearing bandanas) arguing for black and Chicano power, homeless rights, police brutality, maybe some complicated economic theories about corruption and waste.

The left seems to be OK since the city council was unanimous and they are mostly Democrats in real life. But there will be some far left opposition in the hardcore districts that will oppose the Olympics as being detrimental to poor people one way or another. If the economy goes south could be a chance for a real socialist to actually get elected.

Garcetti has obviously anticipated this (who hasn't?) and talked up health, money for youth sports and rec, repair the streets, get the homeless out of our yards, etc., all issues which resonate to the urban poor. Combined with no city funds being spent and no people evicted from anything and it looks pretty good.
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Old August 12th, 2017, 06:27 AM   #1495
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So wariness is starting to creep in, and the constant barrage of negative IOC news for the past five years or so is starting to make its mark.
Interesting change of pace over these past several months and few years.

I remember when the city of Los Angeles sponsored a float themed to the 2024 Olympic eight months ago in the Rose Parade, I thought it was a case of jumping the gun and very likely would makes its supporters look and feel very embarrassed after the IOC's meeting in September.

I know the USOC quite recently believed no American city should be chosen to represent a US bid for the games if that city had already hosted the games in the recent past, including less than 40 years ago.

The bidders in Chicago for the 2016 games back in 2009 looked so sadly provincial when the IOC announced Rio would get the 2016 games and the crowd gathered in Chicago's Dealey Plaza acted surprised and shocked. I still recall all the commotion about Barack and Michelle Obama flying to that IOC meeting and their big-time hyping of the US bid still not being enough for Chicago to survive past even the first round.

After last year's big-whoop-de-doo games in Brazil and the problems that have struck the organizer's of the 2020 Olympics in Japan, I flinched at the thought of Paris and LA having to go through a combination of Chicago in 2009 - or sad-sack provincialism - and what Tokyo went though in 2013 - or overly-joyous provincialism.

The soberness and dignity of the selection process in 2017 will hopefully translate into greater soberness and dignity of the two games that follow 2020.

If the LA bid had even a fraction of the overreach of Tokyo 2020 or a similarity to Paris 2024 with its need for a costly Olympic village, I'd lose my confidence in Los Angeles 2028. So much so I'd find myself feeling exactly like the anti-Olympics crowd in Boston.

This doesn't even raise the issues of terrorism or natural disasters - such as Japan's Fukushima - putting a huge monkey wrench in the plans for Los Angeles before or during the 2028 games.

I hope Casey Wasserman treads very carefully and shows way better judgment over the next eleven years than his counterparts did in 2016 and 2012.




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Old August 13th, 2017, 02:12 AM   #1496
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https://compete.kotaku.com/paris-oly...e-2-1797678847

While the LA committee and city council have been busy, Paris has been active as well.

"The Paris Olympic bid committee will consider esports for inclusion as a medal event in the 2024 Olympic Games, according to Tony Estanguet, the committee’s co-president."

I find it hard to believe but maybe he's getting some kickbacks from video game vendors.

Last edited by pesto; August 13th, 2017 at 03:38 AM.
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Old August 15th, 2017, 09:00 AM   #1497
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The design of the LA Coliseum's peristyle, I believe crafted by architect John Parkinson in the 1930s, with its cauldron and exterior sign are kind of like the symbolic stomping grounds of the Olympics. Of course, there is Olympia in Greece for the actual historic grounds. But for a truly active representative of the games, and of the modern games in particular, the LA Coliseum really is the only thing going.

There is the stadium used for the 1936 Olympics still standing in Berlin, and it has its own heroic, traditional cauldron. That stadium conceivably could be used for a future games.

But with Tokyo's 1964 stadium having been torn down (but at least its historic cauldron being preserved), no other Olympic stadium connects the past, present and future (assuming the 2028 games are held there) the way the LA Coliseum does.

I hope USC doesn't screw it up.







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Old August 16th, 2017, 08:34 AM   #1498
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A little quiet on the Olympics front, but a tiny bit of news: The LA 2028 Media Village is finished!

USC this week opened up the finished "USC Village", a $700 million mixed use development adjacent to the campus. They released a fly through video of the finished product (seems a little sterile since it just opened of course ):



For our purposes, this is where the media will be staying for the 2028 Olympics. And with this done, I believe that all the dwellings required for the Games are ready to go! And in general, this means that the Media Village, Media Press Center and Athlete's Villages are completed. The only remaining facility in that vein left to be built are the additions to the International Broadcast Center, which will be held in brand new studios on the NBCUniversal lot in Burbank, and will begin construction relatively soon I believe (their construction isn't directly related to the Olympics just FYI).
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Old August 16th, 2017, 07:00 PM   #1499
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A little quiet on the Olympics front, but a tiny bit of news: The LA 2028 Media Village is finished!

USC this week opened up the finished "USC Village", a $700 million mixed use development adjacent to the campus. They released a fly through video of the finished product (seems a little sterile since it just opened of course ):



For our purposes, this is where the media will be staying for the 2028 Olympics. And with this done, I believe that all the dwellings required for the Games are ready to go! And in general, this means that the Media Village, Media Press Center and Athlete's Villages are completed. The only remaining facility in that vein left to be built are the additions to the International Broadcast Center, which will be held in brand new studios on the NBCUniversal lot in Burbank, and will begin construction relatively soon I believe (their construction isn't directly related to the Olympics just FYI).
Ok, I'm too lazy to look: what's the difference between the Media Village, the International Broadcast Center and the Media Press Center? And why are they so far apart?

And, more importantly, where do we send the hookers?
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Old August 16th, 2017, 10:59 PM   #1500
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Ok, I'm too lazy to look: what's the difference between the Media Village, the International Broadcast Center and the Media Press Center? And why are they so far apart?

And, more importantly, where do we send the hookers?
sure thing! Basically:

Media Village - where the journalists stay during the Olympics i.e. a big hotel

Media Press Center - Basically that's the news room for the Olympics. It's where the journalists can work during the Games to type up their articles, have meetings and set things up, etc. It also has a press room where the Athletes and dignitaries can hold press conferences and be interviewed.

International Broadcast Center - that's where the various TV channels from around the world can set up and broadcast the Games back home. So that's where NBC, BBC, NHK etc. all build their TV news sets and coordinate on air coverage of the Games (think Bob Costas' show each night during the Olympics)

And regarding the distance, you're right, usually the Media Press Center and International Broadcast Center are one and the same (that's how Paris is doing it for example). However, given LA 2028's commitment to using already built facilities, it didn't make sense to build a Newspaper style newsroom on the Universal lot. And considering that the Annenberg journalism center is brand new AND right across the street from where the media will be staying, it just made sense to separate the MPC and IBC this way (and the IBC is still just a Metro stop away! Take the expo line to 7th street then the red line to Universal City and you're right there)


ETA: Oh and regarding the hookers, well I know of a little motel in Inglewood...
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