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Old May 12th, 2017, 03:42 PM   #1321
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Originally Posted by geoking66 View Post
I can't see another major office building being viable this cycle in Midtown. There's going to be a huge amount of space coming back (at least 3m square feet) from companies moving to Hudson Yards and Manhattan West and 1 Vanderbilt is largely not pre-leased. Any movement from London will be minimal; global ops will likely remain there with departments moving to EU locations as needed. Moving thousands of employees to another country or shifting operations is incredibly expensive and there simply isn't the latent employment in New York or any major city at this point in the economic cycle.
NY has the oldest average sf of office space of any major global economic center, and the oldest average office building of any major global economic center.

Brexit will benefit other cities in the EU, and not necessarily New York, but given the tax incentives offered in the Hudson Yards, everyone expected those buildings to fill before firms started to seriously look elsewhere. Morgan Stanley, Deutsche, and HSBC have all been named as firms looking at space in new buildings, and News Corp only temporarily extended their lease on 6th Ave, to speak nothing of all the law firms looking for new space, like Skadden who anchored Manhattan West.

I would not be surprised to see this get a tenant along with one or two other buildings in the Hudson Yards. It looks like there's a ton of new office space being built, and there is, but as a percentage of overall stock, it's not a huge amount.
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Old May 12th, 2017, 11:05 PM   #1322
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Maybe it should get a taller brother: The same style, the same facade materials, but at least 500 metres tall.

Something like this?



(Images Courtesy of SHoP Architects and User Vertical Gotham)
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Old May 12th, 2017, 11:46 PM   #1323
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Something like this?
Haha great minds, I had the same thought a couple pages back. Gotham Gateway is an epic design (even if it's really just a vision) and would be very appropriate for the location.

I am not concerned about views of ESB being blocked... except maybe from Top of the Rock. Regardless, in a couple years it's going to be surrounded by 800-1000 footers on multiple sides and no longer the stand-alone King of midtown. So I just want whatever shares its airspace to be 1) undeniably New York and 2) classy as hell, so it stands the test of time.
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Old May 13th, 2017, 12:19 AM   #1324
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15 Penn Station is just a simple glassy s**t, close to an iconic 30s Art Deco building...
Hmm, so to hell with progress, not a single place for the newer generations to prove themselves? We should all live stuck in the past, because only the past is valuable, nothing new is worthy. Also we should only stuck with one distinctive style, because nothing else is worthy. We should all work surrounded with dusty pillars and statues, because that's the only way that's right.
Seems legit.
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Old May 13th, 2017, 12:46 AM   #1325
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Hmm, so to hell with progress, not a single place for the newer generations to prove themselves? We should all live stuck in the past, because only the past is valuable, nothing new is worthy. Also we should only stuck with one distinctive style, because nothing else is worthy. We should all work surrounded with dusty pillars and statues, because that's the only way that's right.
Seems legit.
Absolutely not what i said... Anyway...

There's a balance btw Rome and Dubai... If u choose Dubai; it's up to you... it's just kitsch as hell... being anti-fade buildings doesn't mean you love dusty things.. Totally out of subject!
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Old May 13th, 2017, 12:51 AM   #1326
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only the past is valuable, nothing new is worthy.
No, but let's be real, most of the new stuff just doesn't hold a candle to the pre-war skyscrapers. There are exceptions, like 111 West 57th, but 15 Penn is definitely not one of them. It's more Dallas than New York. Hopefully if it gets a redesign it will be less generic.
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Old May 13th, 2017, 01:13 AM   #1327
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Absolutely not what i said... Anyway...

There's a balance btw Rome and Dubai... If u choose Dubai; it's up to you... it's just kitsch as hell... being anti-fade buildings doesn't mean you love dusty things.. Totally out of subject!
But most of the people who go anti glass, anti futurist in these forums are huge lovers of the work by Robert A.M. Stern. You should check his work and I hope I'll get a decent and honest respond from you if his work is suitable for cities such as Rome, or cities such as Dubai.

I actually love Art Deco much more than some of these people, because I do prefer quality over quantity. There are so many Stern buildings being constructed and they all look very oligarchical to me, far from classy or original, on the other hand there is only one Fitzroy ( 514 W 24TH ST New York, NY 10011), and it's a building that I absolutely adore.

Also, the fact that I only love genuine Art Deco and very decent revivals, doesn't stop me to like modern glassy-glossy stuff, not at all. I strongly believe in the power of recent architectural styles, but that's only me.
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Last edited by Architecture lover; May 13th, 2017 at 01:29 AM.
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Old May 13th, 2017, 01:25 AM   #1328
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No, but let's be real, most of the new stuff just doesn't hold a candle to the pre-war skyscrapers.
Once again you forgot the Twins. Let's be real indeed, they were regarded as New York's biggest icons.
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Old May 13th, 2017, 01:36 AM   #1329
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Originally Posted by Architecture lover View Post
But most of the people who go anti glass, anti futurist in these forums are huge lovers of the work by Robert A.M. Stern. You should check his work and I hope I'll get a decent and honest respond from you if his work is suitable for cities such as Rome, or cities such as Dubai.

I actually love Art Deco much more than some of these people, because I do prefer quality over quantity. There are so many Stern buildings being constructed and they all look very oligarchical to me, far from classy or original, on the other hand there is only one Fitzroy ( 514 W 24TH ST New York, NY 10011), and it's a building that I absolutely adore.

Also, the fact that I only love genuine Art Deco and very decent revivals, doesn't stop me to like modern glassy-glossy stuff, not at all. I strongly believe in the power of recent architectural styles, but that's only me.

Totally agree with your comment.

Mines were about the fact to build everything everywhere. u can also choose to build huge towers in Greenwich village, East village, why not in East and West Sides, and why not in Harlem... and everywhere in Brooklyn... And then u get a mess such as Istanbul or Bangkok...

Yes this glassy Penn is definetly on top of mediocrity to me while I love the "little" new one coming : Central Park Tower.

All my comments were only about building a huge one so close to the historic ESB that is more than a simple tower for NYC... just this.

My answer about Stern : definetly not my stuff but we have to admit these neo-traditionnal buildings fit well in NYC... and only there...

Last edited by Parisian75; May 13th, 2017 at 01:41 AM.
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Old May 13th, 2017, 01:37 AM   #1330
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Also, the fact that I only love genuine Art Deco and very decent revivals, doesn't stop me to like modern glassy-glossy stuff, not at all. I strongly believe in the power of recent architectural styles, but that's only me.
I can't speak for everyone here, but I love modern architecture. I'll take an honest avant-garde glass, steel, concrete, composite, etc. tower over just about any postmodern or revival tower, as long as the design is good.

Problem is, this Pelli design sucks. For a tower over 1200' it looks fat and squat, the curves and angles don't work together, it's sitting on an awful cube of a base... Its antecedents (HK IFC and Gran Torre Santiago) look miles better, even though they're much older. Of all Pelli's variation-on-a-theme tapering towers, this would probably be 4th-or-5th best.

ESB is a genuine icon. It deserves a neighbor that strives to be just as great, whatever the style.
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Old May 13th, 2017, 01:46 AM   #1331
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My answer about Stern : definetly not my stuff but we have to admit this neo-traditionnal building fits well in NYC... and only there...
I can't admit anything as long as I compare his work to the General Electric Building, or the Chrysler as mentioned above.

I agree that Pelli's tower could definitely look much much better, it does look generic to me. (in some aspects he's not different than Stern himself, since his designs also seem to look repetitive)
I'd still love to see a modern, contemporary, futuristic, innovative building being constructed, so tired of Faux Deco these days. I think they should hire another architectural group.

Last edited by Architecture lover; May 13th, 2017 at 01:52 AM.
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Old May 13th, 2017, 02:33 PM   #1332
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Stern is cool though he should work under the condition that only limestone or at least no pre-cast concrete is used on his designs, and should work full time with a sculptor or something to include some ornamentation in his designs, no need to go half way with retro.
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Old May 13th, 2017, 03:09 PM   #1333
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Me in the corner just watching everyone fight about possible architects to design this thing. Personally, I would have like to see a unique Zaha Hadid design as hers are very creative and never cease to amaze me, but sadly that'll never happen. Whatever happens, Idc who the architect is as long as the design fits into the skyline and looks good.
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Old May 14th, 2017, 01:30 AM   #1334
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Originally Posted by Architecture lover View Post
But most of the people who go anti glass, anti futurist in these forums are huge lovers of the work by Robert A.M. Stern. You should check his work and I hope I'll get a decent and honest respond from you if his work is suitable for cities such as Rome, or cities such as Dubai.

I actually love Art Deco much more than some of these people, because I do prefer quality over quantity. There are so many Stern buildings being constructed and they all look very oligarchical to me, far from classy or original, on the other hand there is only one Fitzroy ( 514 W 24TH ST New York, NY 10011), and it's a building that I absolutely adore.

Also, the fact that I only love genuine Art Deco and very decent revivals, doesn't stop me to like modern glassy-glossy stuff, not at all. I strongly believe in the power of recent architectural styles, but that's only me.
Id never heard of that 24th Street building until this post. That building is excellent. I wish other new buildings would incorporate dark-colored masonry like that.
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Old May 14th, 2017, 02:03 AM   #1335
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Originally Posted by MarshallKnight View Post
Haha great minds, I had the same thought a couple pages back. Gotham Gateway is an epic design (even if it's really just a vision) and would be very appropriate for the location.

I am not concerned about views of ESB being blocked... except maybe from Top of the Rock. Regardless, in a couple years it's going to be surrounded by 800-1000 footers on multiple sides and no longer the stand-alone King of midtown. So I just want whatever shares its airspace to be 1) undeniably New York and 2) classy as hell, so it stands the test of time.


Yes! That was the point of ESB to shift midtown's center of gravity so to speak.
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Old June 18th, 2017, 02:41 AM   #1336
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Originally Posted by WillBuild View Post
Same story at curbed.

I really hope that they keep the Pelli Clark Pelli design. (Yes, I'm probably in the minority.)

I hope they build this in the future

really fits NYC and ESB, monumental design
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Old June 18th, 2017, 02:43 AM   #1337
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Something like this?



(Images Courtesy of SHoP Architects and User Vertical Gotham)
this looks like from some minor China city...
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Old June 18th, 2017, 02:53 AM   #1338
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I hope they build this in the future

really fits NYC and ESB, monumental design
I hope not. I'd rather see the old hotel rehabilitated and Penn station rebuilt in some form
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Old June 20th, 2017, 01:52 AM   #1339
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It will be fun .
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Old November 21st, 2017, 12:13 AM   #1340
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So whats up with this 15 penn plaza. Is it still going up ? This would be such a great addition for NY.
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