search the site
 daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Continental Forums > North American Skyscrapers Forum > General > NASF Archive



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


 

 
Thread Tools
Old August 20th, 2010, 09:40 PM   #2781
flavius
Registered User
 
flavius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 123
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by arenn View Post
The parking meter lease deal is beyond horrible for the city. I begged them not to do it, but of course they don't care what I or anyone else thinks.
Chicago's new meters do one thing right, and I hope Indianapolis' will do the same: they accept dollar coins.
flavius no está en línea  

Sponsored Links
Old August 20th, 2010, 11:16 PM   #2782
arenn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,905
Likes (Received): 132

I have no doubt that the deal is better than Chicago, but Indy just sold a property right interest in its public space to a private company that does not have its best interest at heart. That's a decades long harvest of pain coming down the road.
__________________
My Urban Affairs Blog: http://www.urbanophile.com/
arenn no está en línea  
Old August 20th, 2010, 11:33 PM   #2783
cdc guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,511
Likes (Received): 1403

Quote:
Originally Posted by cailes View Post
It sounds a little better financially than the Chicago dea,l Aaron.

I love how they are simply deciding to go forward with this garage deal though. It is going to out scale the neighborhood and spend money that could be spent on the TRANSIT PLAN instead that would be a move in the right direction.
Wouldn't $5-10 million pay for a streetcar line from Glendale (with its vastly underutilized "outback" parking) to Broad Ripple?

Then the city could buy or lease the "across Rural" lot from Kite, even build a small garage there...put some money in Kite's pocket to keep Glendale stable...put cars in the lot, and maybe a few pre-binge shoppers in Target and Macy's and Kerasotes' theaters...and then the streetcar would deposit the party animals in Broad Ripple.

Of course, the park 'n' ride lot would need one special feature on its "swipe to park" station: a car-key lock-box with a breathalyzer hook-up.
cdc guy está en línea ahora  
Old August 21st, 2010, 04:44 AM   #2784
BosartBrown
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 65
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by arenn View Post
Indy just sold a property right interest in its public space to a private company that does not have its best interest at heart.
Okay, the media doesn't seem to be reporting too much about this..All I've heard is the 35 million figure. I really don't know what to make of this yet.

What property rights did they sell away (other than the street parking)? Are there restrictions on how they can develop streets with pay parking? (monument circle comes to mind)
BosartBrown no está en línea  
Old August 21st, 2010, 11:23 AM   #2785
kangaroo1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 389
Likes (Received): 44

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdc guy View Post
Wouldn't $5-10 million pay for a streetcar line from Glendale (with its vastly underutilized "outback" parking) to Broad Ripple?

Then the city could buy or lease the "across Rural" lot from Kite, even build a small garage there...put some money in Kite's pocket to keep Glendale stable...put cars in the lot, and maybe a few pre-binge shoppers in Target and Macy's and Kerasotes' theaters...and then the streetcar would deposit the party animals in Broad Ripple.

Of course, the park 'n' ride lot would need one special feature on its "swipe to park" station: a car-key lock-box with a breathalyzer hook-up.
Under state law, aside from paying for traffic lights throughout the city and the cost to install and operate parking meters, parking meter revenue can only be used for street and sidewalk improvements in the area in which the revenue is collected, and since a streetcar would necessarily run outside of Broad Ripple in order to connect it to Glendale, I do not believe the parking meter revenue could be used to build or operate it. However, as I understand, parking meter revenue can be used to acquire and improve land for municipally operated or leased offstreet parking facilities anywhere in the city, so perhaps at least some of the revenue could be used to buy or lease the Rural park-and-ride lot.

That said, I do think the streetcar idea would be a good idea. Perhaps, it could be funded through the planned transit sales tax.
kangaroo1 no está en línea  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 07:05 PM   #2786
billionbucks
Colts Fan
 
billionbucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Indianapolis / DC
Posts: 642
Likes (Received): 0

Convention center on pace for January completion

"Construction on the $275 million Indiana Convention Center expansion is about 85 percent complete and is on schedule for move-in by January"

http://www.indystar.com/article/2010...ary-completion
__________________
Indiana
billionbucks no está en línea  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 05:36 AM   #2787
idyllic indy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 1,163
Likes (Received): 165

Glendale to Broad Ripple

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdc guy View Post
Wouldn't $5-10 million pay for a streetcar line from Glendale (with its vastly underutilized "outback" parking) to Broad Ripple?

Then the city could buy or lease the "across Rural" lot from Kite, even build a small garage there...put some money in Kite's pocket to keep Glendale stable...put cars in the lot, and maybe a few pre-binge shoppers in Target and Macy's and Kerasotes' theaters...and then the streetcar would deposit the party animals in Broad Ripple.

Of course, the park 'n' ride lot would need one special feature on its "swipe to park" station: a car-key lock-box with a breathalyzer hook-up.
I'm guessing from what I've heard about other projects that it would cost considerably more than $5-10 million to provide any type of rail transit covering the mile-plus between Rural and the Monon. But rather than a separate trolley line, why not incorporate these two destinations into the northeast corridor rail plans. I'm no professional transportation planner, but I sure don't understand how the preferred route alignment running between Alisonville and Binford, with that area's low-density development pattern, can be expected to attract nearly as many riders as would a route on or near College, the Monon, and/or Keystone.
idyllic indy no está en línea  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 03:40 PM   #2788
cailes
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,683
Likes (Received): 101

$5-$10 million wouldnt get a rail line put in there. I agree. I don't even know that it's such a great idea only connecting two places like that. I see the idea and funding aside, sure I wouldnt mind seeing it. But investing from DT to Broad Ripple makes more sense and would collect a lot more people.

I suppose at this point, the best way to make the "broad ripple parking garage" work is to push for some sort of innovative design. Incorporate some sort of 1st floor interface for people instead of dead garage parking. Maybe look at the Ivy Tech garage going up as a reference. They are incorporating a bus stop and other amenities on the first floor. Ben Hunt made note of the Bloomington area garage that has the Scotty's and a Subway in it. Not a bad idea either

Depending on where it is located, there should be some give over to transit related uses. Especially with all the energy around indyconnect. It would be a smack in the face to transit improvements to slap a garage in the middle of Broad Ripple. Not to mention the obvious scale issues related to a neighborhood like that.
cailes no está en línea  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 06:30 PM   #2789
cdc guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,511
Likes (Received): 1403

Quote:
Originally Posted by cailes View Post
$5-$10 million wouldnt get a rail line put in there. I agree. I don't even know that it's such a great idea only connecting two places like that. I see the idea and funding aside, sure I wouldnt mind seeing it. But investing from DT to Broad Ripple makes more sense and would collect a lot more people.

I suppose at this point, the best way to make the "broad ripple parking garage" work is to push for some sort of innovative design. Incorporate some sort of 1st floor interface for people instead of dead garage parking. Maybe look at the Ivy Tech garage going up as a reference. They are incorporating a bus stop and other amenities on the first floor. Ben Hunt made note of the Bloomington area garage that has the Scotty's and a Subway in it. Not a bad idea either

Depending on where it is located, there should be some give over to transit related uses. Especially with all the energy around indyconnect. It would be a smack in the face to transit improvements to slap a garage in the middle of Broad Ripple. Not to mention the obvious scale issues related to a neighborhood like that.
I'm thinking ahead.

A Glendale-to-Broad Ripple streetcar line would

(1) create a near-term solution to the garage issue,
(2) transform Broad Ripple Avenue,
(3) be the first phase of a line that would run from Downtown to BR and Glendale.

Yes, kangaroo, it would have to be done in conjunction with increased funding for transit.

I'm on an anti-northeast rail kick right now, because it seems to me Marion County would benefit far more from connecting its transit-ready (dense, former streetcar suburb) neighborhoods with new streetcar lines that also serve major employment centers: Keystone Crossing, Glendale, midtown North Meridian Corridor (Children's Museum, Ivy Tech, Methodist Hosptial), Downtown.
cdc guy está en línea ahora  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 06:53 PM   #2790
Indyfatigable
Indianapolitan
 
Indyfatigable's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Indianapolis/Beech Grove
Posts: 9
Likes (Received): 0

.
I'm sorry, but the Cultural Trail is one of the biggest wastes of money I've ever seen. While attractive in its design, a glorified sidewalk is all it amounts to. Due to the grid of downtown streets, bicycling on it mostly amounts to 15-20 seconds of pedaling, then stopping at a corner (unless the light's green for you), crossing a street, 15-20 seconds of pedaling, coming to another corner... Sigh. Meanwhile, why oh why do they not at least start work on the Eagle Creek Trail part of the Indy Parks Greenways? Other than a short stretch south of Washington, where the trail would pass through the area near Tibbs that has several auto salvage yards, it has the potential to be the city's best trail. The levee that runs along it is ideal for a trail (a la the stretch of the White River Wapahani Trail as it makes its way past Bush Stadium). Once connected to the trail section that runs along the south side of Raymond St. between Kentucky Ave. and White River Parkway West Drive one could walk/run/ride from Westfield to downtown then on to the Raymond St. connector and connect to the Eagle Creek Trail.

Likewise, one could begin at Ellenberger Park on the Pleasant Run Trail, follow it to Garfield Park, then after a short ride on Raymond, connect and proceed all the way to Eagle Creek Park. Instead, all we have is the dotted line in the Indy Parks' brochures and .pdf's denoting the "future trail." Could it be that those in positions of power to make such decisions are concentrated both downtown and near the northern parts of the Monon Trail that the Eagle Creek Trail project languishes while the Cultural Trail has apparently superseded previous plans for completing the proposed Greenways system? Hmmm. Certainly would seem to be the case. The Monon trail, while a great asset and wildly successful (however mostly flat and uninteresting and seemingly for many more a place to be seen and to people watch than a place for recreation - though I suppose that amounts to recreation for many), obviously gets the most attention and funding. Any astute person who's lived here as long as I could have predicted the Monon Trail north of 62nd would be instantly popular, and likewise that the extension of it that runs south of there would be fraught with crime problems. No surprises in either instance to the lucid among us. So insofar as the Monon from Broad Ripple northward was popular from day one, why the need to lavish so much attention and funding on it? It would thrive every bit as much as it does without all the painted bridges and overwrought signage. Those red painted bridges are nice to behold for sure, but why nothing similar anywhere along the Pleasant Run Trail for example?

As it is in pretty much every major city, the higher income parts of town have the best infrastructure and public funded amenities. And while I'm an ardent defender of capitalism, that just stinks. For low income people, things like city parks and trails are one of the best things they have access to. Instead, we throw them the crumbs and promises and lavish the lion's share of funds and projects on areas where most people have the means to take vacations and who live in the best parts of the city already.

In summation, where is our Eagle Creek Trail? Dammit.

.

Last edited by Indyfatigable; August 24th, 2010 at 04:52 PM. Reason: remove some ire
Indyfatigable no está en línea  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 08:56 PM   #2791
cdc guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,511
Likes (Received): 1403

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indyfatigable View Post
In summation, where is our Eagle Creek Trail? Dammit.
Where is the Fall Creek Trail (from 34th St. south to 10th St. & Indiana Ave.)?

Where is the White River Wapahani Trail (the south leg that is supposed to connect downtown to the Pleasant Run Trail)?

Where is the Canal Trail (south of 30th Street)?

In fairness, the Pleasant Run Trail doesn't have those big showy bridges and overpasses like the Monon because it didn't start out as a rail line, and because Pleasant Run is much smaller than White River or Fall Creek. Where trail crosses creek, it's either on a street bridge or culvert or on a pedestrian bridge. I think segments of it actually pre-date the construction of the Monon, as it was a part of George Kessler's Park and Greenway plan. (There were once trails along Fall Creek Parkway where they are missing now, but flood-walls and expansion of the roadways eliminated them.)
cdc guy está en línea ahora  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 09:07 PM   #2792
cailes
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,683
Likes (Received): 101

Hey Chris, if you can get anybody to listen at this point, that would be a good start to a potential future BR to DT line. The more I look at the proposed NE Corridor, finding a way to feasibly run it through Broad Ripple would be awesome. It would touch so many more dense areas. It would be as expensive as you know what, but it would work so much better.

*shrug*

I submitted a long reply on the indy.gov parking site specifically decrying a parking garage. I got no reply and obviously, you see where we are headed now.
cailes no está en línea  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 10:30 PM   #2793
JohnM Indy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 553
Likes (Received): 370

Indyfatigable, I agree with you on some of these issues and disagree with you on others. As for the Cultural Trail, I think it's fine for what it is, essentially a sightseeing trail designed to form a connection between downtown and near-downtown cultural districts. It certainly isn't the most efficient mode of bicycle transportation, but it isn't designed to be. Driving downtown is stop-and-go. So is walking. Why should cycling be any different? Fortunately, if speed is your desire, there are an increasing number of bicycle lanes on downtown streets, and you still are entitled to ride on the streets that don't have bike lanes.

As to the Pleasant Run Trail, I don't particularly care about the frills. I would like to see better basic maintenance, some attention to street crossings, and (dreaming here) a connection through the old Citizens Gas property instead of the weird jog onto Keystone. I agree about the Eagle Creek Trail as well.
JohnM Indy no está en línea  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 10:35 PM   #2794
EddieB317
DE MINIMIS NON CURAT LEX
 
EddieB317's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 722
Likes (Received): 33

Indyfatigable You should look into what the Cultural Trail really is and what it's impact will be on our urban center. It really is an incredible piece of infrastructure that will have an amazing impact on the development and quality of life in downtown Indianapolis. If you want that kind of investment and development in your area I would suggest that you make downtown your area. (I understand you don't even like what you perceive it to be...)

Please search this thread and read some of the discussions about what the cultural trail actually is and how it will impact this city. Being informed about the subject that you are ranting about is critical. Specifically look into the trail funding and how it came into existence. Philanthropic efforts usually fall in to the "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" category.... and would not have magically had some effect on things you care about if it were not built.

You should refocus your efforts toward community awareness and putting together an actual movement that might help you to secure local, state, and federal funds to improve your specific area. It shouldn't be about what someone else did outside of your community. It is not a single pie to be divided once and devoured. There will be future opportunities and if you want to make a change you should direct your efforts to what you want to accomplish, not something completely irrelevant to your cause.
__________________

I happen to think that things are going to happen for Indianapolis...
EddieB317 no está en línea  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 11:43 PM   #2795
cailes
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,683
Likes (Received): 101

I think the cultural trail is more than just a walking tour thing. I can get on the monon in broad ripple and ride all the way to IUPUI without technically ever having to ride in traffic.

That is pretty awesome for me personally.
cailes no está en línea  
Old August 24th, 2010, 02:48 AM   #2796
JohnM Indy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 553
Likes (Received): 370

Quote:
Originally Posted by cailes View Post
I think the cultural trail is more than just a walking tour thing. I can get on the monon in broad ripple and ride all the way to IUPUI without technically ever having to ride in traffic.

That is pretty awesome for me personally.
I don't really disagree with that, and I use the Cultural Trail as part of my commute, too, and I noted that part of its purpose is as a connection. Ultimately, however, it isn't built for speed, particularly the parts that are shared space with bikes and pedestrians. I think that's fine, and to the extent that "sightseeing" implies that it isn't for commuters or transportation, then it was a poorly chosen word.
JohnM Indy no está en línea  
Old August 24th, 2010, 03:47 AM   #2797
IndyYeah
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chesterton
Posts: 965
Likes (Received): 0

I think that from time to time their have been complaints abouts Indy's sidewalks and obviously streets, ramps and so on. The Cultural Trail is really neat, I do not know how much better it is compared to other cities. How many things have we really liked alot about downtown? We want this and that, but really this Cultural Trail is really a nice addition to downtown. Maybe the cool buildings will be next, but until then, I am proud of what the city has done. How are the other Cultural Trails?
__________________
"Hey Skipper, I didn't know it was bring your dad to work night."
IndyYeah no está en línea  
Old August 24th, 2010, 04:11 AM   #2798
GarfieldPark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,434
Likes (Received): 1211

I think much more than providing benefits to bicyclists, the Cultural Trail provides wonderful assets to pedestrians. Walking along the new section of the Cultural Trail at the intersection of Mass Ave and Park Ave the other night (and its still not finished) - you get a tremendous feeling of being in a very special, public place that recognizes the priority of pedestrians along the street. The attractiveness of the space is so different from the usual gray asphalt and concrete that we have become so used to with our typical streets and sidewalks. I believe the Cultural Trail can make a difference in improving the attractiveness of pedestrian spaces in the city and will help set a higher standard that will eventually begin to be incorporated in other pedestrian / bicycle areas in urbanized areas throughout the region.
GarfieldPark no está en línea  
Old August 24th, 2010, 06:11 AM   #2799
Indyfatigable
Indianapolitan
 
Indyfatigable's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Indianapolis/Beech Grove
Posts: 9
Likes (Received): 0

.
Okay that first post of mine excoriating the Cultural Trail and containing other pretty embittered sounding things was no way to introduce myself in retrospect. I chiefly wanted to lament how long it's been since first we heard of the future Eagle Creek Trail and how that seems to have been pushed aside for things that have come along in the interim. It's just that I so looked forward to that trail as complimenting an already fantastic urban trail system.

And even before I saw the posts correctly reminding me of how the Cultural Trail is far more suited for walking than cycling, that had occurred to me. Thing is, you won't find many who love this old burg and who are concerned about its future than I. I broke my own rule and posted on the net while in a less than stellar mood this morning. I believe I'm in like-minded company here for the most part and hopefully next time out I'll have more constructive and positive things to impart.

I spent years as a high rise window cleaner here in Indianapolis and worked on nearly every tall building in our city many times. Since this is the Indianapolis thread of a forum called Skyscraper City, maybe at least some of you will appreciate that despite it often being grueling and occasionally terrifying, so enamored am I of our city and its architecture (especially the high rise structures) that that kept me interested and inspired while doing that work. As a kid I often used to sit in the window of my parents' east side home near Southeastern and Sherman with binoculars and just stare at the blue lighted letters of the old Indiana National Bank tower (or One Indiana Square to be accurate) at night. When I became a window cleaner and I first descended over the side of what was then the state's tallest building, I lovingly patted the Plexiglas® letters as the stage, or hanging scaffold made its way down past them. Eventually I was in charge of the Bank One Tower (now Chase Tower) window cleaning and maybe in some other Indianapolis thread I'll eventually post some of the pictures I took (and some from the Star and the News they took of me and co-workers) over the years.

I'm now enrolled at Ivy Tech where I'm working on a degree in a medical related field. I finally had enough of "hanging around outside buildings downtown" (ba-dump!) and have embarked on a more pragmatic course for a 40-something fellow. Anyway, sorry to come into the forum in such a cantankerous way. Glad to have found this place and look forward to corresponding with you all.
.

Last edited by Indyfatigable; August 24th, 2010 at 06:16 AM.
Indyfatigable no está en línea  
Old August 24th, 2010, 07:29 AM   #2800
thehoss257
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 581
Likes (Received): 37

Welcome Indyfatigable!!! Looking forward to discussing development-related issues with you regarding our fair city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indyfatigable View Post
.
Okay that first post of mine excoriating the Cultural Trail and containing other pretty embittered sounding things was no way to introduce myself in retrospect. I chiefly wanted to lament how long it's been since first we heard of the future Eagle Creek Trail and how that seems to have been pushed aside for things that have come along in the interim. It's just that I so looked forward to that trail as complimenting an already fantastic urban trail system.

And even before I saw the posts correctly reminding me of how the Cultural Trail is far more suited for walking than cycling, that had occurred to me. Thing is, you won't find many who love this old burg and who are concerned about its future than I. I broke my own rule and posted on the net while in a less than stellar mood this morning. I believe I'm in like-minded company here for the most part and hopefully next time out I'll have more constructive and positive things to impart.

I spent years as a high rise window cleaner here in Indianapolis and worked on nearly every tall building in our city many times. Since this is the Indianapolis thread of a forum called Skyscraper City, maybe at least some of you will appreciate that despite it often being grueling and occasionally terrifying, so enamored am I of our city and its architecture (especially the high rise structures) that that kept me interested and inspired while doing that work. As a kid I often used to sit in the window of my parents' east side home near Southeastern and Sherman with binoculars and just stare at the blue lighted letters of the old Indiana National Bank tower (or One Indiana Square to be accurate) at night. When I became a window cleaner and I first descended over the side of what was then the state's tallest building, I lovingly patted the Plexiglas® letters as the stage, or hanging scaffold made its way down past them. Eventually I was in charge of the Bank One Tower (now Chase Tower) window cleaning and maybe in some other Indianapolis thread I'll eventually post some of the pictures I took (and some from the Star and the News they took of me and co-workers) over the years.

I'm now enrolled at Ivy Tech where I'm working on a degree in a medical related field. I finally had enough of "hanging around outside buildings downtown" (ba-dump!) and have embarked on a more pragmatic course for a 40-something fellow. Anyway, sorry to come into the forum in such a cantankerous way. Glad to have found this place and look forward to corresponding with you all.
.
thehoss257 no está en línea  


 

Tags
development, indianapolis

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu