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Old September 27th, 2013, 03:26 PM   #12841
OPRyan
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Originally Posted by JohnM Indy View Post
I agree. I'm glad that IND now has a handful of direct flights to the west coast, but I don't know how anyone can argue that a handful of flights to SFO and LAX now means that there is no difference between IND and O'Hare when it comes to getting to Asia and Australia. O'Hare offers flights to any number of west coast cities at practically all hours of the day.

Unfortunately, continued airline consolidation is probably beyond the control of anyone in Indy or in comparably sized cities, and is bad for metros that aren't among the dozen or so largest. Consider what has become of airports in Cincy, Cleveland, and St. Louis, which used to be important. As you or someone else has noted in the past, it used to be possible to get decent passenger service from places like Evansville, Fort Wayne, and South Bend. The first time I ever flew was in 1987, on a middle school trip to DC. We flew from Fort Wayne to DC via Dayton on Piedmont. Less than 20 years ago, my parents flew to Hawaii and the flight to Honolulu left from St. Louis (TWA, obviously). Unfortunately, over the past two or three decades accessibility by air has gotten worse for all but the biggest cities. I'm not sure what the answer is. I guess it's good that at least Indy was never spoiled by being a major hub like some of our fellow midwestern cities.
I agree completely with both Arenn and JohnM. Great that Indy now has a daily flight to LAX or SF, but it isn't the most convenient flight all of the time. I am a regular traveler who racks up the Frequent Flyer miles and half of my flights go through Chicago to get where I need to go. There just isn't enough demand or service through Indy to get the frequency of flights that work for everyone.
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Old September 27th, 2013, 04:12 PM   #12842
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I would like to see Indy pick up another flight to SFO. If there were two per day (or ideally three), I think that would enable Indy to be more competitive as a base for Silicon Valley firms to build up. My understandings it that Salesforce.com is going to leave its ET division based in Indy. Remember my blog post about the Rolls Royce logo? Imagine now Salesforce.com logos all over Indy. That's awesome.

Just to speculate, but what if Yelp bought Angie's List and did a similar thing in keeping a huge operation in Indy? Now you've got Yelp logos all over the place too - high brand-recognition tech names.

I see those types of Silicon Valley satellite operations as possible, given that similar things have been happening with places like Austin, Salt Lake City, and Portland. If Indy can get the right talent in the pipeline, there's big potential.

Also, I'll repeat my view that SFO is a United hub and primary Asian gateway for them. (It's more and more SFO and not LAX that is emerging as the Asia hub for the West Coast). Routing to those Asia flights with international business class tickets is what I think makes the IND->SFO flight really work. Economy cabin domestic is not going to cut it, particularly when even if there's demand to support a non-stop flight, for network optimization reasons it might still be to UA's advantage to route traffic through ORD (to max the hub performance).
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Old September 27th, 2013, 04:20 PM   #12843
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Let's face it, flying these days is a big pain in the rear end. Removing even one connecting flight (Indy to a hub city) is a big deal. Game, set, match to Chicago. Not even a contest.
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Old September 27th, 2013, 08:51 PM   #12844
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Originally Posted by arenn View Post
I would like to see Indy pick up another flight to SFO. If there were two per day (or ideally three), I think that would enable Indy to be more competitive as a base for Silicon Valley firms to build up. My understandings it that Salesforce.com is going to leave its ET division based in Indy. Remember my blog post about the Rolls Royce logo? Imagine now Salesforce.com logos all over Indy. That's awesome.

Just to speculate, but what if Yelp bought Angie's List and did a similar thing in keeping a huge operation in Indy? Now you've got Yelp logos all over the place too - high brand-recognition tech names.

I see those types of Silicon Valley satellite operations as possible, given that similar things have been happening with places like Austin, Salt Lake City, and Portland. If Indy can get the right talent in the pipeline, there's big potential.

Also, I'll repeat my view that SFO is a United hub and primary Asian gateway for them. (It's more and more SFO and not LAX that is emerging as the Asia hub for the West Coast). Routing to those Asia flights with international business class tickets is what I think makes the IND->SFO flight really work. Economy cabin domestic is not going to cut it, particularly when even if there's demand to support a non-stop flight, for network optimization reasons it might still be to UA's advantage to route traffic through ORD (to max the hub performance).
I like that train of thought Arenn. I haven't been to Indy lately, but has Salesforce.com updated ExactTarget signage to Salesforce.com? Or are they planning to keep the ExactTarget name in place for that division of the company?

I do think that having some successful nationally known and branded tech company logos throughout downtown Indy and even at the Airport would have a nice potential benefit for the city.
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Old September 27th, 2013, 09:18 PM   #12845
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I like that train of thought Arenn. I haven't been to Indy lately, but has Salesforce.com updated ExactTarget signage to Salesforce.com? Or are they planning to keep the ExactTarget name in place for that division of the company?
There are no plans to change the name of ExactTarget, it'll be remaining a division of Salesforce.com.

And ExactTarget's acquisitions (eg, iGoDigital) will still be a division of ExactTarget for the time being.

No telling if that'll all last in the long term, but no plans right now to change any of that.
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Old September 27th, 2013, 09:19 PM   #12846
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In analyzing corporate headquarters locations for a Fortune 500, airport connections is just one element. Case in point, Hertz moving from the NYC market to Southwest Florida. NYC has multiple airports and international connections. RSW (Fort Myers) is smaller than IND. BTW, the Hertz business plan is specifically synced to airports. I do not think Chicago is a slam dunk. STL is closer to Decatur with major metropolitan attractions. Do not discount taxes, business climate and ego of corporate heads.
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Old September 27th, 2013, 10:34 PM   #12847
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In analyzing corporate headquarters locations for a Fortune 500, airport connections is just one element. Case in point, Hertz moving from the NYC market to Southwest Florida. NYC has multiple airports and international connections. RSW (Fort Myers) is smaller than IND. BTW, the Hertz business plan is specifically synced to airports. I do not think Chicago is a slam dunk. STL is closer to Decatur with major metropolitan attractions. Do not discount taxes, business climate and ego of corporate heads.
I'd venture that close to 50% of these decisions have mostly to do with where the CEO wants to live.

ADM's CEO has an interesting background:

She has been Director at Procter & Gamble Co., since January 8, 2008. She serves on the Board of Directors of American Petroleum Institute, the Board of Trustees of the University of San Diego in California, as well as the Board of Visitors of Pennsylvania State University. In 2000, Fortune magazine named Ms. Woertz one of the top ten most powerful women in business. In 2005, she was named a Distinguished Alumna by Pennsylvania State University. Ms. Woertz graduated in 1974 with a BS in Accounting from Pennsylvania State University.

She worked for Gulf Oil in Pittsburgh prior to its acquisition by Chevron, after which she worked in Houston and Vancouver and presumably SFO.

Indianapolis is closer to P&G than Chicago...easy car trip vs. plane trip. There is NO easy way to get from anywhere to State College...that would be a private plane jaunt. Little stuff like that might matter. P&G is an important directorship for any executive.
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Old September 28th, 2013, 05:31 PM   #12848
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Originally Posted by Matt986 View Post
Let's face it, flying these days is a big pain in the rear end. Removing even one connecting flight (Indy to a hub city) is a big deal. Game, set, match to Chicago. Not even a contest.
I'm sorry, but that's just a silly sentiment. If that were true, why would ANY large national or international company choose to be located here with our decrepit, antiquated airport? Our airport may be smaller with less direct flights, but it's also one of the nicest, most modern, efficient and passenger friendly facilities in the country right now. And has been pointed out previously by others, with modern technology and social networking, access to air travel is less critical a factor than it was 20, even ten years ago. That's just a fact.
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Old September 28th, 2013, 06:44 PM   #12849
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caliboy28, CEOs fly private planes, so for the handful of top people, it matters less, but for everyone else it matters more.

Why did places like NYC recover from their 70s and 80s lows? In part, globalization does require elite, specialized services that are only available in "global cities". Saskia Sassen literally wrote the book on this. Air travel matters, but so do things like proximity to the high end law firms, financial firms, consultants, ad agencies, etc. Indy has nothing like this. Indy has those types of firms, but they exist purely to service local, not global business. Even Eli Lilly uses big national law firms for things like product liability defense.

For the agro-industrial space, Chicago is the place those services and the best air connections are found. That's why Mead Nutritionals when there instead of Indy. It's why Cummins would have done the same most likely except that Indy is 45 minutes from its main operations. I can't say for sure what will happen, but I suspect Chicago is the overwhelming favorite for ADM, and the Illinois legislature is already gearing up to spend whatever it takes to keep them.

I agree that the internet and modern economy has had a partial decentralizing effect. It's one reason Indy is doing well, and one reason you can build a company like Exact Target in Indy. But you'll note Silicon Valley/SF are as entrenched as ever as the elite control center of tech. That's one reason why Indy is focusing on Internet marketing. It wants to develop a specialty where for that specific subsector at least, Indy is the one with the ecosystem.
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Old September 28th, 2013, 08:48 PM   #12850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arenn View Post
caliboy28, CEOs fly private planes, so for the handful of top people, it matters less, but for everyone else it matters more.

Why did places like NYC recover from their 70s and 80s lows? In part, globalization does require elite, specialized services that are only available in "global cities". Saskia Sassen literally wrote the book on this. Air travel matters, but so do things like proximity to the high end law firms, financial firms, consultants, ad agencies, etc. Indy has nothing like this. Indy has those types of firms, but they exist purely to service local, not global business. Even Eli Lilly uses big national law firms for things like product liability defense.

For the agro-industrial space, Chicago is the place those services and the best air connections are found. That's why Mead Nutritionals when there instead of Indy. It's why Cummins would have done the same most likely except that Indy is 45 minutes from its main operations. I can't say for sure what will happen, but I suspect Chicago is the overwhelming favorite for ADM, and the Illinois legislature is already gearing up to spend whatever it takes to keep them.

I agree that the internet and modern economy has had a partial decentralizing effect. It's one reason Indy is doing well, and one reason you can build a company like Exact Target in Indy. But you'll note Silicon Valley/SF are as entrenched as ever as the elite control center of tech. That's one reason why Indy is focusing on Internet marketing. It wants to develop a specialty where for that specific subsector at least, Indy is the one with the ecosystem.
Arenn one thing I want to correct you on is Mead Johnson nutritionals moved to Suburban Chicago in 2008 for 2 additional reasons that don't exist today. First Illinois wasn't in as bad of shape as they are now financially and politically. plus taxes weren't much different at all. 2nd Indy's new airport was not finished by then. it was about to open so the old Airport was still servicing Indy back in 2008. Today its different. Illinois has so much debt and is in financial hell and guess what? they are already talking about raising taxes AGAIN in Illinois: http://www.myfoxchicago.com/story/23...e-wealthy-more
Indy's airport is significantly better than it was 5 years ago back in 2008 so I think eventually Mead Johnson could move back to Indianapolis which I would love to see.

If I were Mayor Ballard and Illinois raises taxes 1 more time I would buy a home in Chicagoland and poach businesses from them until either A Chicago has nothing left in its economy or B Illinois repeals the tax hike if it comes.
Chicago is the *capital* of the Midwest. aka the leader of our section of the nation. its Time Chicago start acting like a leader and not an embarrassment.
Otherwise as the old saying goes if there's a failure of leadership then its time to replace it. Ballard has already said Indy should be the capital of the new Midwest. Lets Capitalize on our assets more and make it happen
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Old September 28th, 2013, 10:02 PM   #12851
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One of the commenters on that article I agree with.
If we cant get another major hotel from a developer this is where Mr. Jim Irsay needs to stand up and be a corporate citizen and help the city build a new Hotel.
Mr. Jim Irsay is fully capable to financially support a medium to major sized hotel that could land Indy the Super Bowl.
That's SOCIALISM!!! How dare you tell a billionaire what do with his money.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 12:20 AM   #12852
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Thank you Indiana State Legislatures IF.........

http://www.indystar.com/article/2013...-mass-transit-

Now that's what I wanted to see.
Drop the stupid money hole of rail and replace it with Bus Rapid Transit.
1/3rd the cost and way more flexible than a rail line.
Now lets see if the Republican Supermajority in the Indiana legislature will hopefully jump onboard with the BRT idea.
Cant wait to vote in favor of this transit referendum in 2014 as long as Rail is dropped.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 10:20 AM   #12853
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Most of Chicago's non-stop flights are to Europe. To get from Chicago to Australia you'd have to stop in Los Angeles, San Francisco, or New York. To get from Indianapolis to Australia you'd have to stop in Los Angeles, San Francisco, or New York (Indianapolis now has non-stop flights to all three.) It takes the same amount of time to get from Indianapolis to Australia as it does to get from Chicago to Australia.

The only advantage that Chicago has over us is non-stop flights to Europe. That advantage is partially offset by the easy layover in Chicago from Indianapolis (I've done it 7-8 times in the last few years.) It's a one hour flight to Chicago and you only have to wait in the airport for a couple hours before your next flight. I think that our airport is much more competitive than most give credit for.
LOL. You're kidding, right? When trying to talk Indy up, its important to be based in reality.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 05:42 PM   #12854
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LOL. You're kidding, right? When trying to talk Indy up, its important to be based in reality.
Na your wrong.
As was noted Chicago's only international connection advantage is to Europe.
Plus something interesting from the IBJ for our sunday morning: http://www.ibj.com/crafting-indianap.../article/43673

It’s a huge accomplishment what this city has become. We’ve left Cincinnati in the dust. They don’t have a convention center. We’ve left Columbus and Cleveland in the dust. … Chicago worries about us. Chicago! That’s unbelievable. We’re competing and beating Chicago for things like the Big Ten [men’s basketball] tournament

Haha that made my day: Chicago is worried about us. Boy that's gotta mean something right there.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 06:19 PM   #12855
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We’ve left Cincinnati in the dust. They don’t have a convention center.
I realize that's a quote from the guy in the article, but then what does he call this 750,000 sq. feet convention center they have downtown, that was built in 1968 and renovated just in 2006?

How is that "not a convention center"? Are people that stupid really in charge?
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Old September 29th, 2013, 06:22 PM   #12856
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Originally Posted by illogicaljake View Post
I realize that's a quote from the guy in the article, but then what does he call this 750,000 sq. feet convention center they have downtown, that was built in 1968 and renovated just in 2006?

How is that "not a convention center"? Are people that stupid really in charge?
What is its size of Cincys convention center.
If its small in comparison to Indy then I guess what the guy is trying to say Cincy has no way of competing with Indy.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 06:34 PM   #12857
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LOL. You're kidding, right? When trying to talk Indy up, its important to be based in reality.
When I look back on it, I was exaggerating a little bit (I got caught up in the moment.) I forgot that, even though we have flights to major hubs, we don't have as many as Chicago. Other than that, I think that I was pretty on target. 90% of all of the international flights out of Chicago are to Europe. Chicago doesn't have any non-stop flights to Australia (what we were talking about) and very few, if any to Asia.


Either way, we are a more competitive than people think and that is what I was trying to get at. Sorry to come off as being "ignorant" (if that's the right word.)

Last edited by rjhart; September 29th, 2013 at 06:36 PM. Reason: Grammar, phrasing
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Old September 29th, 2013, 06:48 PM   #12858
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What is its size of Cincys convention center.
If its small in comparison to Indy then I guess what the guy is trying to say Cincy has no way of competing with Indy.
Like Jake said, it's 750,000 Square Feet. Ours is around 1,300,000. Although the Indiana Convention Center is 2x the size, I'd imagine that their convention center is at least competitive with ours.

Last edited by rjhart; September 29th, 2013 at 06:55 PM. Reason: Grammar, again. :(
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Old September 29th, 2013, 08:35 PM   #12859
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Originally Posted by rjhart View Post

Like Jake said, it's 750,000 Square Feet. Ours is around 1,300,000. Although the Indiana Convention Center is 2x the size, I'd imagine that their convention center is at least competitive with ours.
No the ohio centers are no where near as competitive. Msp and chicago are the only ones. COBO, stl's and columbus cc's r actually larger than icc. Cbus cant book to save its life and cleveland is finishing up medical mart to compete with indy for convention business. Outside of stl, what the other cities lack are hotel rooms in the core. Cle, cin and cbus all less than 5k hotel rooms downtown. Kc barely reaches it. Only cincy has what could be considered a signature hotel dt (about 850 rooms). Stl actually has around 11k and minney and indy are in the 7300k arena.

What makes the city competitive is proximity to amenities and convention/arenas. Mccormick is just in another league than icc as its just massive and chicago can hold events indy cant due to size.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 02:00 AM   #12860
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Re: BRT vs rail on NE corridor:

As always, lowest cost, at all costs. Indy, low cost leader.

As I said in the column, I would still ride whatever is installed. Would prefer rail, but will ride the bus too.
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