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Old October 11th, 2017, 03:03 PM   #2381
Soheilkb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven DL View Post
Personally I don't think it's that bad to be honest.

It's of course not as majestic like the fully ornamented baroque sides but it kind of mirrors the situation in lots of German cities with a sharp contrast between historic buildings which either survived the carpet bombing in WW2 or were restored or even reconstructed and the post war buildings, often standing directly adjacent.

I personally really like these contrasts as I find them interesting and also reflecting history. As an example in Cologne you have the beautiful St. Aposteln and directly next to it a beautiful building from the 1950's.
Link: https://www.google.de/maps/@50.93690...7i13312!8i6656

Certainly, many post-war buildings were built in a hurry and due to the nature of the reconstruction in the bigger cities there was not much time nor money to rebuild everything or build in a fancy way, but there are some fine examples nonetheless.


I will pray for your lost soul and taste
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Old October 11th, 2017, 03:04 PM   #2382
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I can see old columns. How many old decorations will be repositioned in their original place?

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Old October 11th, 2017, 03:31 PM   #2383
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I can see old columns. How many old decorations will be repositioned in their original place?

The old columns you see here are of the Altes Museum on the opposite side of the Lustgarten:

Altes Museum Berlin by luk3x, on Flickr

There will however indeed be parts of original columns that are going to be integrated. On the southern side of the forum, towards Breite Straße, there will be one upper part of an original column. Thre might be more that I don't know of.
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Old October 11th, 2017, 03:49 PM   #2384
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What is the current status of the monument for the reunification of Germany?
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Old October 11th, 2017, 04:28 PM   #2385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soheilkb View Post
I will pray for your lost soul and taste


Dear Soheilkb, we might not be of same opinion but that still doesn't mean it's ok to make such statements. It's not because we are covered in the veil of anonymity on the internet, that it gives a carte blanche for ranting and personal attacks on other forum users.


Given the fact you have mentioned the words 'pray' and 'soul', I assume you are a religious person or at least seem to be heavily influenced by religious tradition; perhaps it's an idea to adhere to some of the principles dictates in either of the 3 abrahamic religions you supposedly follow: respect other people.
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Old October 11th, 2017, 05:40 PM   #2386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post
The old columns you see here are of the Altes Museum on the opposite side of the Lustgarten:


There will however indeed be parts of original columns that are going to be integrated. On the southern side of the forum, towards Breite Straße, there will be one upper part of an original column. Thre might be more that I don't know of.


What a mistake I did .... for a while I thought the picture was inside a courtyard.

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Old October 11th, 2017, 10:43 PM   #2387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven DL View Post
Dear Soheilkb, we might not be of same opinion but that still doesn't mean it's ok to make such statements. It's not because we are covered in the veil of anonymity on the internet, that it gives a carte blanche for ranting and personal attacks on other forum users.


Given the fact you have mentioned the words 'pray' and 'soul', I assume you are a religious person or at least seem to be heavily influenced by religious tradition; perhaps it's an idea to adhere to some of the principles dictates in either of the 3 abrahamic religions you supposedly follow: respect other people.


I'm in fact an atheist , and I didn't Attack you , it's not because I'm covered in the veil of anonymity , I would say it to your face , you have a bad taste.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 05:58 AM   #2388
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Quote:
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Like this:

Thanks Tiaren! It's difficult to get too excited about that, but I suppose it's not too bad.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 07:38 AM   #2389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven DL View Post
Personally I don't think it's that bad to be honest.
Compared to the majority of buildings going up today it's pretty good, however, compared to the old palace it looks extremely clumsy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven DL View Post
It's of course not as majestic like the fully ornamented baroque sides but it kind of mirrors the situation in lots of German cities with a sharp contrast between historic buildings which either survived the carpet bombing in WW2 or were restored or even reconstructed and the post war buildings, often standing directly adjacent.
I appreciate this contrast as well (although I'm also saddened by the huge losses), however, this is a new build it feels wholly pretentious to treat this building like it got to look this way organically. The palace was designed from scratch and does not need to follow any ideological ideas about what architecture in Berlin ought to be. On the contrary, this was the one building where symmetry and details were important.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven DL View Post
I personally really like these contrasts as I find them interesting and also reflecting history. As an example in Cologne you have the beautiful St. Aposteln and directly next to it a beautiful building from the 1950's.
I can't see any beauty in that 50s block.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 09:55 AM   #2390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soheilkb View Post
I'm in fact an atheist , and I didn't Attack you , it's not because I'm covered in the veil of anonymity , I would say it to your face , you have a bad taste.


To be honest I don't really care so much whether you are atheist or believe in the flying spaghetti monster, but I do demand basic respect, as do all other forum users. We might differ in taste and that's ok but that doesn't give you the right to discredit mine. If anything, you could say "I think this part of the building is ugly - and don't agree with you" or "I think you have a bad taste because XYZ." These are the basics of feedback culture and it's basically how grown ups have conversations.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 10:03 AM   #2391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bricks View Post
Compared to the majority of buildings going up today it's pretty good, however, compared to the old palace it looks extremely clumsy.
I agree; compared to the reconstructed baroque sides of the palace it does look a bit clumsy and confrontational. I guess that was the whole point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bricks View Post
I appreciate this contrast as well (although I'm also saddened by the huge losses), however, this is a new build it feels wholly pretentious to treat this building like it got to look this way organically. The palace was designed from scratch and does not need to follow any ideological ideas about what architecture in Berlin ought to be. On the contrary, this was the one building where symmetry and details were important.

I too am saddened by the losses in architectural heritage during the last world war but this is part of history and now it's up to us to incrementally improve the city centers architectural appearance. I personally believe we have been seeing lots of amazing initiatives in the recent years all over Germany.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bricks View Post
I can't see any beauty in that 50s block.

Noted. I do. Especially in the evening when the staircase is clearly illuminated and the surroundings dark, I personally think the building conveys a certain elegance and lightness. But of course it's all subjective.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 12:08 PM   #2392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven DL View Post
To be honest I don't really care so much whether you are atheist or believe in the flying spaghetti monster, but I do demand basic respect, as do all other forum users. We might differ in taste and that's ok but that doesn't give you the right to discredit mine. If anything, you could say "I think this part of the building is ugly - and don't agree with you" or "I think you have a bad taste because XYZ." These are the basics of feedback culture and it's basically how grown ups have conversations.


I didn't in any shape or form disrespect you , I just stated the facts .... there's a good taste and there's a bad taste that's all.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 02:45 PM   #2393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soheilkb View Post
I didn't in any shape or form disrespect you , I just stated the facts .... there's a good taste and there's a bad taste that's all.


Just to close this 'discussion': taste is subjective. There is no such thing as "good taste". Whether it is "good" or "bad" is only in the eye of the beholder.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 06:03 PM   #2394
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Quote:
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I agree; compared to the reconstructed baroque sides of the palace it does look a bit clumsy and confrontational. I guess that was the whole point.
So the whole point was to ruin the building?

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Just to close this 'discussion': taste is subjective. There is no such thing as "good taste". Whether it is "good" or "bad" is only in the eye of the beholder.
Taste and aesthetics are linked to everything else including ideology and morality. This is especially true when it comes to architecture. To simply like a certain style is a moral choice and linked to one's world view and moral character. For example, conservatives tend to like only classical architecture while certain progressives only like modern buildings. Many despise bulky glass and steel buildings because they represent gentrification or the greed of the financial sector. Other dislike postmodernism for its pretentiousness or modernism for its utopian destructiveness. Hitler's fascination with ruins (destruction) was part of his insanity while stalinist wedding cake architecture is meant to represent the power of the Soviet union. In that sense there is more to a building that just taste.

When it comes to discussing taste we are free to discredit each others tastes all we like. It's called freedom of speech.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 07:01 PM   #2395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bricks View Post
So the whole point was to ruin the building?



Taste and aesthetics are linked to everything else including ideology and morality. This is especially true when it comes to architecture. To simply like a certain style is a moral choice and linked to one's world view and moral character. For example, conservatives tend to like only classical architecture while certain progressives only like modern buildings. Many despise bulky glass and steel buildings because they represent gentrification or the greed of the financial sector. Other dislike postmodernism for its pretentiousness or modernism for its utopian destructiveness. Hitler's fascination with ruins (destruction) was part of his insanity while stalinist wedding cake architecture is meant to represent the power of the Soviet union. In that sense there is more to a building that just taste.

When it comes to discussing taste we are free to discredit each others tastes all we like. It's called freedom of speech.


Freedom of speech ends where insulting begins. I think freedom of speech nowadays is too often misused as a way to attack other people, their beliefs, religion etc. Don't get me wrong I am always for a constructive debate. But I like to stress the word constructive. There are just simple basic rules of conversation which are normally thought at institutions like schools or at home when growing up.
I wish there'd be more mutual respect and less one liners and black & white statements. But I guess this forum like any other is just a mirror of society and thus represents the contemporary change in political debate all around the world as well. Anyhow, hope we can get back to the subject now.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 09:31 AM   #2396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven DL View Post
Freedom of speech ends where insulting begins. I think freedom of speech nowadays is too often misused as a way to attack other people, their beliefs, religion etc. Don't get me wrong I am always for a constructive debate. But I like to stress the word constructive. There are just simple basic rules of conversation which are normally thought at institutions like schools or at home when growing up.
I wish there'd be more mutual respect and less one liners and black & white statements. But I guess this forum like any other is just a mirror of society and thus represents the contemporary change in political debate all around the world as well. Anyhow, hope we can get back to the subject now.
What you originally said was that no one "has the right" to discredit your taste which is ridiculous. Freedom of speech means everyone has the right to discredit whatever they like. The problem today is people tend to think that you can live in a free democratic society without your feelings getting hurt. Well you can't, and that's the whole point. Freedom of speech explicitly gives us the right to say things that are unpopular, radical and offensive. Attacking beliefs, religions etc makes up the foundation of western society. We have laws against hate crimes, stalking etc - as long as that lines isn't being crossed we're fine. I agree that discussion should be civil, however, I'm also proud to live in a society where one person can give the other the finger for no reason at all without ending up in the gulag.
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Old October 18th, 2017, 11:32 AM   #2397
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According to the webcam...*drumroll*...all outer facades are now structurally finished (just the plaster and painting work remains). This morning the last gap in the north side's balustrade was closed:

https://cam05.berlinerschloss-webcam.de/
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Old October 19th, 2017, 03:22 AM   #2398
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To bring this thread back on track, we will show more pictures.

Fun fact; there are 350 workers working on this build. The inside is
extremely difficult and needs extreme good care. The fire response
and humidity control is being installed. The air flows from the floors into
the rooms and will be taken out in the ceiling. The windows are also prepared
against dangerous rays. There are 1ooo windows like old fashioned wood box
with special gases inside or modern metal frame windows!
Btw. The timetable is very good. So good in fact, that we get more reconstruction
than we bargained for: The gold works are coming and coming already now.
The original plans did not included them. Here the proof;










Thanks, Vulgow!
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Old October 19th, 2017, 07:46 PM   #2399
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The gold works are coming and coming already now. The original plans did not included them.
That's not true though. Gilded ornaments, like cartouches, crowns or banisters were planned to be gilded from a very early point on. It's indicated in official visualisations and the construction plans too:



There were voices that called for not gilding ornaments, if donations weren't covering them, but there were also voices to not finish the balustrades, to not add the dome or the statues and then there was the whole cross debate. It were just people suggesting things though, nothing official.
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Old October 21st, 2017, 09:25 AM   #2400
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There is an interesting article on the website of the Humboldtforum (http://humboldtforum.com/de-DE/storys/tympana/):

It talks about what will happen with the original remaining fragments of the Stadtschloss.

Some of them will be built in to the reconstructed facade, as all of us have seen in previous pictures (see earlier in this thread). Some other objects however, will not be built in but will be put on display in the Forum itself due to conservational reasons.
As of late 2019, more than 100 of them will be shown in the Humboldt Forum.

Mainly in the so-called Skulpturensaal (sculpture room), a two-story room in the eastern, more modern wing towards the river Spree.



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