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Old October 12th, 2017, 06:50 PM   #8641
openlyJane
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Originally Posted by Invictious View Post
One of the reasons this forum is not as powerful as it could be is that there are lots of incoherent and inaccurate postings so it's too easy to dismiss them or ignore them , and that's presuming anyone of real influence is reading this forum any way.

Whilst its good to let off steam you tend to find that people in power sit up and listen when ideas and solutions are presented (they can then be adopted as their own), rather than constant unrelenting negativity. Leaders tend to know there are problems, they often don't know how to solve them.

The Manchester obsession is also unhelpful, and as Jane and others point out there's a place for everyone, and Liverpool needs to play more to its strengths. The real root cause problems are central governments continuing starvation of infrastructure investment to this region, together with the paucity of great local political leadership. I'm no expert in either field so good to see how others see those two issues being solved.
You’d be surprised who does look in on the forum......, however, I have heard from some ( that I’ve spoken with) that they don’t really like or rate it that much, or contribute, because of the negativity. The negativity has certainly been commented upon.This is a shame, because there is a lot of knowledge, talent and creativity.

It causes me to reflect upon what is said to be the notorious way that business tends to be conducted, in this city, in the council chambers - too much that is petty and personal, driven by negativity and personal grudges. Point scoring, pointless enmity. In fighting.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 06:53 PM   #8642
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How do you think ALL those cities/towns get full blown HS2 and this city, one of the biggest in the U.K., didn't?
I'm not sure, but it's definitely nothing to do with Manchester so like I asked previously, enlighten me as to why?
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Old October 12th, 2017, 06:56 PM   #8643
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You're getting quite mixed up now Tofu.
A few posts back you were accusing us of dragging Manchester through the mud,now we're constantly slating Liverpool council.
You can't have it both ways now can you?
There's nothing mixed up here, there's definitely a mix of both of those things
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Old October 12th, 2017, 07:01 PM   #8644
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I'm not sure, but it's definitely nothing to do with Manchester so like I asked previously, enlighten me as to why?
Didn't say it was.

I am giving you every chance to give your opinion as to why this city, once again, one of the biggest city's in the U.K., hasnt got full blown HS2 given you appeared from nowhere to preach to us.

My belief is you haven't a clue what the argument is.
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Isnt it time they closed this white Elephant and stop wasting money

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Old October 12th, 2017, 07:08 PM   #8645
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You’d be surprised who does look in on the forum......, however, I have heard from some ( that I’ve spoken with) that they don’t really like or rate it that much, or contribute, because of the negativity.
It's not surprising that many like to hide from reality, it's reflected in the performance of the city. Honestly, with there being so little to be positive about in the city what do you and others expect? Mediocre (If that!) developments being built on prime city centre sites, piss poor local political leadership and the city is being left behind by major infrastructure projects like HS2/HS3.

Another factor here is the age of posters on the Liverpool sub-forum, the older generation have saw the city somewhat transformed and so many are content with the city as is, given the changes they've witnessed in their lifetime. Whereas this isn't the case for the younger posters, who tend to be more ambitious in regards to the city's future. I think some posters should bear this in mind.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 07:14 PM   #8646
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Originally Posted by openlyJane View Post
You’d be surprised who does look in on the forum......, however, I have heard from some ( that I’ve spoken with) that they don’t really like or rate it that much, or contribute, because of the negativity. The negativity has certainly been commented upon.This is a shame, because there is a lot of knowledge, talent and creativity.

It causes me to reflect upon what is said to be the notorious way that business tends to be conducted, in this city, in the council chambers - too much that is petty and personal, driven by negativity and personal grudges. Point scoring, pointless enmity. In fighting.
Interesting insight about who visits the site - also interesting that when you and others make some common sense and occasional upbeat posts others immediately jump on them with negativity. Sort of proves the point and explains why this forum hasn't gained much traction because its difficult at times to see past it.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 07:14 PM   #8647
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Whereas this isn't the case for the younger posters, who tend to be more ambitious in regards to the city's future.
The "more ambitious" Scousers, of my generation, tended to emigrate to the colonies and the US.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 07:18 PM   #8648
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I rarely see anyone from Manchester posting on here.
I thoroughly enjoy your posts, pictures in particular. But I disagree with you here, I don't post much but I do follow the forum and you can always count on a manc to come out of nowhere with snide comments, or taking over the Liverpool High Speed Rail thread. I've not looked, but I have a hunch it's rare to see Scousers behaving in this manner on the manc forum.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 07:23 PM   #8649
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It's not surprising that many like to hide from reality, it's reflected in the performance of the city. Honestly, with there being so little to be positive about in the city what do you and others expect? Mediocre (If that!) developments being built on prime city centre sites, piss poor local political leadership and the city is being left behind by major infrastructure projects like HS2/HS3.

Another factor here is the age of posters on the Liverpool sub-forum, the older generation have saw the city somewhat transformed and so many are content with the city as is, given the changes they've witnessed in their lifetime. Whereas this isn't the case for the younger posters, who tend to be more ambitious in regards to the city's future. I think some posters should bear this in mind.

Case in point - I don't think this is an age issue its one of perspective - just because you're relentlessly negative and/or ill informed doesn't make you right, and vice versa.Saying you're ambitious and demonstrating real intent and insight are also different things.

People on the forum aren't generally content with how things are they want to see improvement, but they base that desire for improvement in a context. If you read back over your post, and many others , there's no balance in it, no recognition of anything positive going on - that's not a basis for a coherent plan of action or a basis for any useful dialogue.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 07:30 PM   #8650
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The "more ambitious" Scousers, of my generation, tended to emigrate to the colonies and the US.
Different times I suppose, I've been to the US once and I've no intention of ever returning, let alone actually moving there. Backward place, today it's typically London or Australia for young Scousers.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 07:53 PM   #8651
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But again no one is blaming Manchester, just comparing.
Comparisons usually involve more factual stuff than you read on here, and some balance - a lot of what I read is half baked misinformation or falsehoods which is why I referred to it in that way as obsessive. There's no blame at all attached to Manchester - they're going about their business , and paying only occasional interest in Liverpool which is ok and how it should be.

Genuine comparisons with Manchester have their place if they give insight, but if that's what posters are trying to achieve its not having the desired effect.

Manchester has its strengths, it also has its weaknesses. Liverpool likewise. Many of the obvious ones in Liverpool's negative box are entrenched over decades but can be resolved. Having read many posts on the forum over the last few years I can't say I'm much closer to gaining any greater insight into some posters preferred way forward or the real basis for the M obsession. There's many other places which Liverpool has more to learn from to help its growth and development.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 08:31 PM   #8652
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Different times I suppose, I've been to the US once and I've no intention of ever returning, let alone actually moving there. Backward place, today it's typically London or Australia for young Scousers.
I've been to a number of places, once, and would never return to them. I wouldn't though, have the audacity to categorise them as anything, just that I was not interested in returning. I don't believe anyone, even you, could form the opinion you have, after just one visit. But, it's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

As for "young Scousers" choosing London and Australia, I am pleased to learn that they, "young Scousers", who are mostly decedents of immigrants and sailors themselves, still have the heart of the adventurer and, more importantly, still ambitious. But can present day Liverpool afford to lose their most ambitious citizens?

PS: I used the description "colonies" as a collective for New Zealand, Canada, South Africa and, of course, Australia.
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Last edited by Bogeyana; October 12th, 2017 at 08:40 PM.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 09:03 PM   #8653
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But can present day Liverpool afford to lose their most ambitious citizens?
Good point, it's the same throughout the North of England. Decades of London-centric politics are to blame and I can't see it changing anytime soon, especially here in Liverpool with the pathetic 'politicians' we get palmed off with.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 12:46 AM   #8654
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Originally Posted by bluesnapper View Post
Didn't say it was.

I am giving you every chance to give your opinion as to why this city, once again, one of the biggest city's in the U.K., hasnt got full blown HS2 given you appeared from nowhere to preach to us.

My belief is you haven't a clue what the argument is.
My belief is you can't even provide something for me to argue against?
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Old October 13th, 2017, 12:49 AM   #8655
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Originally Posted by Invictious View Post
Case in point - I don't think this is an age issue its one of perspective - just because you're relentlessly negative and/or ill informed doesn't make you right, and vice versa.Saying you're ambitious and demonstrating real intent and insight are also different things.

People on the forum aren't generally content with how things are they want to see improvement, but they base that desire for improvement in a context. If you read back over your post, and many others , there's no balance in it, no recognition of anything positive going on - that's not a basis for a coherent plan of action or a basis for any useful dialogue.

Apart from the Knowledge Quarter and Ten Streets coming slowly to life, the Baltic expanding at a similar pace, and the odd replacement for infrastructure which was often insufficient in the first place and is now knackered as a result of being long past its sell-by date (the Runcorn bridge, the Royal Hospital, Merseyrail's trains), what IS going on at the moment which is positive ?
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Old October 13th, 2017, 12:57 AM   #8656
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There's nothing mixed up here, there's definitely a mix of both of those things
Well you will have to be clear,you seem to be hopping from one accusation to another.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 01:20 AM   #8657
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Originally Posted by TofuCity View Post
My belief is you can't even provide something for me to argue against?
It took you 6 hours for that gem. Like I said you haven't a clue but choose to preach.
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Isnt it time they closed this white Elephant and stop wasting money
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Old October 13th, 2017, 01:41 AM   #8658
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Not soley business related, however; I was in the city centre this evening, first time for a little while, and there was a really good buzz about the place. It was fairly clean, there was a nice atmosphere and plenty of people about. Not many local accents could be heard, and lots of the restaurants were doing a good trade.

We might not have large commercial businesses fighting over themselves for office space, but I came away with a pleasant feeling of optimism that the city is in the process of repositioning itself for something great.

I walked everywhere. Through Canning up to Paddington. Around Castle Street and the business district. The city was alive. And I felt safe. People were enjoying themselves, in our city, and it was nice to see.

I would take a Camp & Furnace, Leaf or Mowgli over Prezzo or Cafe Rouge any day. I'd take a TJ Morris, Utility or Milky Tea Studios over a JLL or Savills. I'd also take an area like Ten Streets or the Baltic over Spinngfields (sorry for the M compassion).

You've got the guys behind the Tapestry, in the Fabric District, really pushing the idea forward of creating an area based on craft and skills. There has been a decent amount of noise and good news coming from the KQ camp, and the whole Brewery Village area is an interesting and unique little place at the minute. The cruise liner terminal will add to this, also.

Liverpool is different. We all know, and love, that. It's unfair to compare ourselves against other places' successes' - because it's becoming increasingly clear that we are heading in a very different direction.

Maybe the current leadership isnt doing a great job at taking the city down the tried and tested conventional route of success - but the entrepreneurs, innovators and risk takers are doing a boss job at creating an interesting and stimulating place to live and visit.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 10:36 AM   #8659
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Thanks for posting your observations Sunny-Way. I was back in Liverpool for four nights around Christmas 2016 and I was struck at how buzzing the city was. Many restaurants were packed throughout my visit. The city seems to have recently moved up a level in terms of its restaurant offer and general urban renewal. Having increased and widespread active ground floor frontages makes a considerable difference to the general ambience of a place!
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Old October 13th, 2017, 10:42 AM   #8660
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It is disappointing, though, that the undoubtedly vibrant leisure market does not seem to be leading on to much large-scale investment in any other area.
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