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Old May 3rd, 2012, 06:03 AM   #1921
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^How about an umbrella? Hahaha.....
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 06:32 AM   #1922
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These "occupiers" and "anarchists" are getting old. Get a job already lol.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 08:15 AM   #1923
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Wish somone had the nerve to pull the mask off one of those twerps and photograph him running home to mommy and daddy in Laurelhurst.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 09:11 AM   #1924
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The dick heads spouting anarchy/breaking windows and the hippies holding up signs are 2 very different groups. Hippies with signs would be better than the miscreants that usually hang around westlake during the day. The *******s with masks breaking windows can rot in jail for all i care.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 12:57 PM   #1925
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I have to wonder if the Black Bloc are really hired guns out to smear the image and reputation of the protesters.

The fact that they never get caught wherever they go leaves me with this suspicion.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 04:41 PM   #1926
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Oh god...
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 05:42 PM   #1927
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Next time I'm going out with a tazer since the cops don't seem to care.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 09:39 PM   #1928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessejb View Post
Next time I'm going out with a tazer since the cops don't seem to care.
There were certainly plenty of media types on the spot to film the violence. One wonders, where were the police? Why do the police in this town normally react to such events rather prevent them in the first place. They had plenty of warning the terrorists were about to descend on the city. Is this depolicing in action? For my own info, does the city ALWAYS have to approve this or that march on free speech grounds or could it not allow this march next year?
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 09:58 PM   #1929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
There were certainly plenty of media types on the spot to film the violence. One wonders, where were the police? Why do the police in this town normally react to such events rather prevent them in the first place. They had plenty of warning the terrorists were about to descend on the city. Is this depolicing in action? For my own info, does the city ALWAYS have to approve this or that march on free speech grounds or could it not allow this march next year?
It's not just Seattle. The Black Bloc gets away with it in Vancouver (during the Olympics) and Toronto (the G8/20 summit, which had a billion dollar security budget--go figure!), and probably plenty of other cities.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 10:52 PM   #1930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
There were certainly plenty of media types on the spot to film the violence. One wonders, where were the police? Why do the police in this town normally react to such events rather prevent them in the first place. They had plenty of warning the terrorists were about to descend on the city. Is this depolicing in action? For my own info, does the city ALWAYS have to approve this or that march on free speech grounds or could it not allow this march next year?
Related topic that to me shows how far we have to go to improve the cops' ability to maintain order: There were recent articles about how the City Council needs to draft new laws to allow SPD to film people in public spaces prior to a crime being committed. The city has gotten sued for recording people without a crime having taken place. I like a lot of what the ACLU does but if you're in a public space you should expect you might be recorded (and you are already being recorded by the media and private security owned video cameras).
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Old May 4th, 2012, 12:22 AM   #1931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
There were certainly plenty of media types on the spot to film the violence. One wonders, where were the police? Why do the police in this town normally react to such events rather prevent them in the first place. They had plenty of warning the terrorists were about to descend on the city. Is this depolicing in action? For my own info, does the city ALWAYS have to approve this or that march on free speech grounds or could it not allow this march next year?
We don't have enough police to guard every window. And you can't (or at least shouldn't) arrest people that haven't done anything illegal yet. Yes, once there's actually people smashing in windows, it's a good idea to try to arrest them. But if at that point you just have a handful of police surrounded by thousands of protesters, that's a brave/stupid move.

In the end, the protesters didn't hurt anyone. These weren't violent crimes, and I don't feel any less safe having them still out on the street. I'd prefer for people that break things to be punished for their crimes, but it isn't anything I'm going to lose sleep over.

Also, I much prefer living in a society where the police don't attack pre-emptively. Seattle did the right thing this time, and didn't pepperspray any old women in the face.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 04:24 AM   #1932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessejb View Post
Next time I'm going out with a tazer since the cops don't seem to care.
Maybe if you're lucky, Phoenix Jones' team will have an opening!
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Old May 4th, 2012, 09:32 AM   #1933
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.. but if you're in a public space you should expect you might be recorded (and you are already being recorded by the media and private security owned video cameras ..
I've never been able to see any legal/constitutional difference between video surveillance (one cop watching multiple locations from a distance and recording it) and simply having a beat officer on every corner, watching and remembering.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 05:54 PM   #1934
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I think what people are scared of is that modern facial recognition software is very good*. It's an easy few steps from government watching everyone to government tracking everything you do. And an easy step from there to, for instance, destroying your political opponents. With good government this won't be an issue, but good luck finding a single room full of people that trust government to that extent. Personally, I'm not too afraid. But I am certainly sympethetic to the argument.

* Anyone use Picasa? I have all of my photos indexed by person - and that's with free software.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 06:03 PM   #1935
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This makes me want to finish reading 1984
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Old May 5th, 2012, 09:50 AM   #1936
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You know what's next on the horizon? Borrowed from our recent wars, airborne historical surveillance. Put up drones or balloons over a city and just record everything 24/7. A crime happens, and all you do is rewind that part to see where the perp came from and go blow up his house .. err ... arrest him.
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Old May 5th, 2012, 04:48 PM   #1937
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London's (the most spied on city in the world) infamous surveillance cameras have solved one crime per thousand cameras per year.
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archive...dons_surv.html

Last edited by cityviewer; May 5th, 2012 at 04:59 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old May 5th, 2012, 05:35 PM   #1938
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Doesn't sound like a great payback. How much does a camera cost? Would they have solved these crimes anyway?

Then again, you can't measure the crime that didn't happen because people know they're being watched.
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Old May 5th, 2012, 06:01 PM   #1939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt the Engineer View Post
Doesn't sound like a great payback. How much does a camera cost? Would they have solved these crimes anyway?

Then again, you can't measure the crime that didn't happen because people know they're being watched.
I suppose you could compare crime stats pre/post camera installations.

comment from the link:
"For me there is one convincing argument against all those cameras. You can find it at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
The picture, taken by a surveillance camera, shows Mohammed Atta boarding his 9/11 flight. The camera prevented nothing."

Posted by: Ernst
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Old May 5th, 2012, 07:49 PM   #1940
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I hope no one is suggesting that cameras solve or prevent crimes. I would suggest that they do deter crime though. I certainly think twice before "going for it" through the intersection of Denny and Fairview!

What cameras DO do is improve convictions as they add credible evidence. imo
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