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Old March 19th, 2017, 12:32 AM   #6561
s_w_stars
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Quote:
Originally Posted by absinthe_888 View Post
We need to complement this BRT plan (as with other transpo solutions) WITH MASSIVE DISCIPLINE FROM EVERYONE.

As a regular EDSA commuter on Friday pm / Sunday pm, one of the main causes of much worse traffic from the already unbearable traffic is the massive lack of discipline from EVERYONE.

Bus / Jeep / Taxi Sakay dito, sakay doon
Pasahero v/ Commuter Tayo dito, tayo doon
Bus/ Jeep / Taxi Balandra dito, balandra doon
Tao Tawid dito, tawid doon
etc, etc
That's wishful thinking. Discipline is behavioural. The more it is enforced in action, the more it becomes ingrained in people's behaviour (no need to think, just act accordingly.) You need enabling tools to keep the discipline. People's "interpretation" of discipline depends on how they see themselves in society. You need ENFORCERS of rules. You know just like the security guards at mall entrances. People line up. You need...

Traffic enforcers (Bayani Fernando's enforcers were out in force, so was Binay's in Makati)
Platform enforcers
Bus stop/jeepney stop/trici enforcers
etc etc etc
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Old March 19th, 2017, 01:02 AM   #6562
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What's the real problem that causes indisciplinary behavior in traffic in MM?
Lack of enforcers or the enforcers being crap at enforcing?
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Old March 19th, 2017, 01:09 AM   #6563
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both. Add corruption.

@sw stars
You can try knocking on ltfrb's door for the closest comprehensive plan, which is the jeep route rationalization plan. But this is most likely not going to be provided, and that this plan is biased to jeeps - no brt or lrt involved.
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Old March 19th, 2017, 06:59 AM   #6564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badsector View Post
Wow seryoso?

Gano ka ka-sheltered na kailangan mo pa mag request ng video para makakita ng punuang bus sa EDSA?

How to be you po.
Hindi mo yata naintindihan yung comment ko.

Hindi kasi napupuno ang mga buses sa EDSA, nagkakapunuan lang kapag paalis na to sa EDSA e.g. yung papuntang Fairview, mag-start mapuno pag nasa East Ave na pero from Baclaran to Kamuning it's 3 quarters filled at the most.

My request was rather a mockery than an actual request. Since sarcasm can't be felt on chat and forums, next time I'll use an emoji.

Former MMDA Chairman Tolentino riding a bus at morning rush hour on a half-empty bus.



This one's from a Japanese guy waiting for a bus. Not a single bus was full.



An EDSA vlog from a PBB Celebrity housemate. This one is difficult to watch (in relation to finding full buses) but a nice vlog nonetheless (in the perspective of EDSA traffic madness]



I'm sure may napupunong bus sa EDSA hindi naman yun impossible. Pero they are more of like an exception rather than the norm. Otherwise, hindi magtitigil ng matagal ang mga bus drivers kung lagi naman pala silang puno.

That 37.8 billion pesosesoses budget para maglagay ng mga bus stops sa median ng EDSA? Malaking kahibangan!
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Last edited by vmanato; March 19th, 2017 at 07:01 AM. Reason: Grammatical
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Old March 19th, 2017, 02:57 PM   #6565
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I think the reason why there's so many half-filled busses along EDSA is because there's too many of them, and people rather queue for the over-filled MRT-3 for 15 min than be stuck in traffic in EDSA for almost an hour
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Old March 19th, 2017, 03:07 PM   #6566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magniko View Post
I think the reason why there's so many half-filled busses along EDSA is because there's too many of them, and people rather queue for the over-filled MRT-3 for 15 min than be stuck in traffic in EDSA for almost an hour
With dedicated lanes, proper dispatching, and a transit plan and easy to board stations in a BRT system, maybe more people will then opt to use them and start filling the buses and lessen the load on MRT?
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Old March 19th, 2017, 03:13 PM   #6567
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I feel like most of the traffic is due to jeepneys and provincial buses traversing EDSA, as it's primarily the only road right now connecting SLEX and NLEX

Once MM Skyway and the ITS-es are finished, removing provincial buses(and jeepneys) from EDSA for good, and implementing of Congestion Pricing(see here) I think the traffic will be relieved in general, making buses more attractive to use

Though BRT would still come in handy as long as it doesn't turn out to be MRT-3 running at-grade
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Old March 19th, 2017, 03:37 PM   #6568
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nobody seems to notice that probably about 70% of users of edsa are the space taking private cars. And nobody seems to ask why people prefer to use cars more than busses.

When you go outside of edsa, the connecting public transportation is horrid.

I agree with SW stars that there should be a comprehensive plan of feeder lines. But then again, it doesn't hurt to increase the capacity of the avenue, relieve the MRT-3 (at it's last possible capacity upgrade) of being over capacity and create inner business district bus lines.
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Old March 19th, 2017, 04:37 PM   #6569
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Originally Posted by baybum7 View Post
both. Add corruption.

@sw stars
You can try knocking on ltfrb's door for the closest comprehensive plan, which is the jeep route rationalization plan. But this is most likely not going to be provided, and that this plan is biased to jeeps - no brt or lrt involved.
Part of Tugade's plan (that's from his press release) in the beginning is how to phase out jeepneys and tricis. Jeepneys and tricis have no place in mass transit in a mega city like Manila. They're not MASS enough. Somehow Tugade did not push through with what he said in the beginning. Now it's pure press release of plans, on top of plans, projects on top of projects, yada yada yada.
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Old March 19th, 2017, 04:49 PM   #6570
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Originally Posted by baybum7 View Post
nobody seems to notice that probably about 70% of users of edsa are the space taking private cars. And nobody seems to ask why people prefer to use cars more than busses.

When you go outside of edsa, the connecting public transportation is horrid.

I agree with SW stars that there should be a comprehensive plan of feeder lines. But then again, it doesn't hurt to increase the capacity of the avenue, relieve the MRT-3 (at it's last possible capacity upgrade) of being over capacity and create inner business district bus lines.
Exactly.

There's a way to relieve MRT3 now with the use of modern buses, articlated or even bi articulated buses. They can take the bus lane on each side now use it just for MRT 3 relief bus line with proper stops, end to end of EDSA. They can have express, limited stops and multiple stop trips. They can move the other bus operators on EDSA now and realign their routes to under served avenues, (e.g. Novaliches to QC Av end to end) give them one lane on each side as bus lanes ONLY. E.g. there's an operator on C5 (I think it's called the Green Frog). They can give that operator a full run of C5 end to end.)

The way to get people out of cars is 1) give them a service as an alternative way (I don't mean jeepneys/tricis but modern buses); 2) give the buses permanent right of way which reduces the lane for vehicles. At that point, a driver will have to weigh the benefit of riding public transit or driving. As a bonus to those living in the burbs or in greater Manila, build paid parking lots at the terminus of various routes, so they can "park and ride" to borrow again from Toronto transit's Park and Ride program.

Btw., to be able to use articulated (even bi articulated buses) they'll have to run them on a straight route no turns.
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Old March 20th, 2017, 12:46 AM   #6571
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the government must implement more P2P routes. Cubao to BGC or Ayala or to MOA. There's a demand for it.
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Old March 20th, 2017, 01:57 AM   #6572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s_w_stars View Post
Part of Tugade's plan (that's from his press release) in the beginning is how to phase out jeepneys and tricis. Jeepneys and tricis have no place in mass transit in a mega city like Manila. They're not MASS enough. Somehow Tugade did not push through with what he said in the beginning. Now it's pure press release of plans, on top of plans, projects on top of projects, yada yada yada.
Because jeepney groups like PISTON can heavily pressure the government into submission - just look at the jeep modernization plan. And busses with caah cow routes are very huge lobbyists - with very deepp pockets. And worst, these people are the first to cry wolf when there's a plan to improve a certain area.
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Old March 20th, 2017, 05:19 AM   #6573
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Originally Posted by ampcell View Post
With dedicated lanes, proper dispatching, and a transit plan and easy to board stations in a BRT system, maybe more people will then opt to use them and start filling the buses and lessen the load on MRT?
You might want to see how EDSA is laid out. You have EDSA and MRT 3 that go on 3 levels - at grade, under and over. Where is the median BRT proponents are talking about when MRT 3 is at grade, or EDSA goes underpass or a flyover hugs the median? The proponents of this BRT on EDSA have not really thought this over. They're salivating about getting a contract and forgot they have to deal with the lay of the land so to speak.
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Old March 20th, 2017, 05:33 AM   #6574
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Originally Posted by baybum7 View Post
Because jeepney groups like PISTON can heavily pressure the government into submission - just look at the jeep modernization plan. And busses with caah cow routes are very huge lobbyists - with very deepp pockets. And worst, these people are the first to cry wolf when there's a plan to improve a certain area.
Yes, that's the root of the problem isn't it? Sec Tugade needs a rational, organized but radical solution to ease the traffic congestion in Manila where all the stakeholders will have a part to play. He needs a comprehensive and integrated plan where all the stakeholders interests, esp the commuters, including the bus operators and the would be displaced jeepney drivers are addressed.

Sec Tugade should have presented a comprehensive integrated plan including dealing with the above groups before going to the Congress to ask for emergency powers. It would be a tough sell but all Sec Tugade and his people have done is come up with projects to "deodorize" the problem but the stench remains. They haven't got a real solution. Frustrating isn't it?
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Last edited by s_w_stars; March 20th, 2017 at 05:41 AM.
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Old March 20th, 2017, 07:33 AM   #6575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magniko View Post
I feel like most of the traffic is due to jeepneys and provincial buses traversing EDSA, as it's primarily the only road right now connecting SLEX and NLEX

Once MM Skyway and the ITS-es are finished, removing provincial buses(and jeepneys) from EDSA for good, and implementing of Congestion Pricing(see here) I think the traffic will be relieved in general, making buses more attractive to use

Though BRT would still come in handy as long as it doesn't turn out to be MRT-3 running at-grade
Most of the traffic on EDSA are private vehicles (primarily) and buses (secondary) in terms of numbers. Jeeps on EDSA are very few many parts doesn't even have them. Stil, Jeeps must be removed.

The biggest cloggers though are the CITY buses which ply EDSA for 12 hours a day (out of their 16-hour work day) contrast that to a provincial bus going to Naga. The provincial bus will use EDSA about an hour - an hour and a half and will take 12 hours going to Bicol it takes 24 hours for it to get back to EDSA. All that while his city counterpart has spent most of its time on EDSA. But a bus is a bus, provincial buses must be removed too.

A private car will not stay on EDSA for 12 hours in a day. It's a combination of many cars.

Emergency powers needed to shut the fudge up off of Imelda Papin and Yuseco's mouth.

Scrap this Bullcrap.
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Old March 20th, 2017, 04:59 PM   #6576
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Most of the traffic on EDSA are private vehicles (primarily) and buses (secondary) in terms of numbers. Jeeps on EDSA are very few many parts doesn't even have them. Stil, Jeeps must be removed.

The biggest cloggers though are the CITY buses which ply EDSA for 12 hours a day (out of their 16-hour work day) contrast that to a provincial bus going to Naga. The provincial bus will use EDSA about an hour - an hour and a half and will take 12 hours going to Bicol it takes 24 hours for it to get back to EDSA. All that while his city counterpart has spent most of its time on EDSA. But a bus is a bus, provincial buses must be removed too.

A private car will not stay on EDSA for 12 hours in a day. It's a combination of many cars.

Emergency powers needed to shut the fudge up off of Imelda Papin and Yuseco's mouth.

Scrap this Bullcrap.
Why is her name here? Is she one and the same as Claire de la Fuente, a "singer" who owns a bus fleet?
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Old March 20th, 2017, 10:40 PM   #6577
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Quote:
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Why is her name here? Is she one and the same as Claire de la Fuente, a "singer" who owns a bus fleet?
Yes, because Papin is Claire dela Fuente's City Bus line

Seriously, P37.8 billion for a series of waiting sheds? This doesn't even count as an infrastructure project much less be called major infra project.


....
.
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Old March 20th, 2017, 11:34 PM   #6578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vmanato View Post
Yes, because Papin is Claire dela Fuente's City Bus line



Seriously, P37.8 billion for a series of waiting sheds? This doesn't even count as an infrastructure project much less be called major infra project.





....

.


What made you think na sa BRT stations lang (or waiting sheds as you insist) gagastusin yung 37.8B?

Nakita mo na ba yung official project cost breakdown?
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Old March 21st, 2017, 07:01 AM   #6579
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What made you think na sa BRT stations lang (or waiting sheds as you insist) gagastusin yung 37.8B?

Nakita mo na ba yung official project cost breakdown?
May I ask is this number a lump sum amount to "decongest" Manila or for a specific project?
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Old March 21st, 2017, 09:16 AM   #6580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vmanato View Post
Most of the traffic on EDSA are private vehicles (primarily) and buses (secondary) in terms of numbers. Jeeps on EDSA are very few many parts doesn't even have them. Stil, Jeeps must be removed.

The biggest cloggers though are the CITY buses which ply EDSA for 12 hours a day (out of their 16-hour work day) contrast that to a provincial bus going to Naga. The provincial bus will use EDSA about an hour - an hour and a half and will take 12 hours going to Bicol it takes 24 hours for it to get back to EDSA. All that while his city counterpart has spent most of its time on EDSA. But a bus is a bus, provincial buses must be removed too.

A private car will not stay on EDSA for 12 hours in a day. It's a combination of many cars.

Emergency powers needed to shut the fudge up off of Imelda Papin and Yuseco's mouth.

Scrap this Bullcrap.
I see about as many provincial buses as city busses along EDSA
Bear in mind there's a crapton of provincial bus stations around Manila and most of them have to use EDSA to get to the expressways. Even if one bus use 24 hours to get to their destination, there are still thousands of provincial busses still in Manila causing traffic jams
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