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Old March 19th, 2008, 08:28 PM   #61
UrbanBen
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On the many high speed rail lines around (e.g. at least 200 km/h, preferably 250 or 300 km/h), what is the average spacing between stations? Are there shorter spacings within metropolitan areas to allow suburbs to be served? How far outside the main city station does the high speed track typically begin?

I'm just curious, since I'm doodling on a map for a possible HSR in this area.

Thanks in advance.
"Average spacing" isn't really a simple question. The Japanese have several services, for instance, with stations only a few kilometers apart for the slowest Kodama service. The TGV Est, on the other hand, has widely spaced stations.
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Old March 21st, 2008, 03:51 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanfan89 View Post
On the many high speed rail lines around (e.g. at least 200 km/h, preferably 250 or 300 km/h), what is the average spacing between stations? Are there shorter spacings within metropolitan areas to allow suburbs to be served? How far outside the main city station does the high speed track typically begin?

I'm just curious, since I'm doodling on a map for a possible HSR in this area.

Thanks in advance.
There isn't actually such a thing like station spacing. HSLs simply connect major cities.
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Old March 21st, 2008, 03:06 PM   #63
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The TGV sud-est, the first French HSL, had no stations. As with any major infrastructure project it is dependent on local realities. However, one thing to remember about HSLs is that the relationship between stops and stations isn't normally like local services. HSTs rarely are timetabled to stop at all itermediatestations for HSLs, some Japanese shinkansen being the exception. For example, between London and Paris there are stations at Ebbsfleet, Ashford, Calais and Lille, but no services stop at more than two of these stations, and the stopping patterns seems quite random.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 01:45 AM   #64
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The TGV sud-est, the first French HSL, had no stations.
You forgot Le Creusot-TGV station and Macon - TGV....
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 02:14 AM   #65
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Station placement depends only on the distance between "important" places to connect ...

There could be 150km without any ... or one at 20km intervals ... It depends.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 02:41 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by urbanfan89 View Post
On the many high speed rail lines around (e.g. at least 200 km/h, preferably 250 or 300 km/h), what is the average spacing between stations? Are there shorter spacings within metropolitan areas to allow suburbs to be served? How far outside the main city station does the high speed track typically begin?
High Speed Railways basically never serve suburbs, since they are not commuter trains. Their advantage of speed partially also depends on having as few stops as possible and just as much as necessary.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 08:29 AM   #67
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High Speed Railways basically never serve suburbs, since they are not commuter trains. Their advantage of speed partially also depends on having as few stops as possible and just as much as necessary.
Says who ???

Most "megalopolis" stretch for some 80km from side to side ... places like tokyo london and paris have stations in the core of the metro area and some outer stations to service those in the periphery.

Paris even has the CDG station ...


But basicaly "stations" are placed wherever they are needed.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 10:54 PM   #68
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Says who ???

Most "megalopolis" stretch for some 80km from side to side ... places like tokyo london and paris have stations in the core of the metro area and some outer stations to service those in the periphery.

Paris even has the CDG station ...
It doesn't matter how big cities are. High-speed trains run from city centre to city centre and stop at airports such as CdG at most. They don't serve suburbs, however.
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Last edited by flierfy; March 23rd, 2008 at 10:55 PM. Reason: sentence added
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Old March 24th, 2008, 04:18 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
Says who ???

Most "megalopolis" stretch for some 80km from side to side ... places like tokyo london and paris have stations in the core of the metro area and some outer stations to service those in the periphery.

Paris even has the CDG station ...
But basicaly "stations" are placed wherever they are needed.
Without wishing to make any claims to international standards of "high Speed", Regional and long-distance trains generally stop here at the most significant outermost suburban centre to pick up passengers from the corridor: rather than make them travel into the city and out again, which could cost well over an hour of travel and transfer time. Yes ... this "metropolis" extends for c. 80 km.
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Old March 24th, 2008, 04:47 PM   #70
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On the UK 'high speed lines' occasionally trains stop once in the suburbs of London, such as Watford on the WCML or Stevanage on the ECML, but most trains don't, and this is on 200km/h. At higher speeds it really starts defeating the point of a high speed line to have the train stop. I'm not sure what the stopping patterns are like in Europe, but often if high speed trains stop lots it's usually at one end of the line after the train has left the high speed route for good. Normally on high speed lines, regardless of how many stations there are each train only stops once or twice or thrice on the whole high speed section of it's journey.
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Old March 24th, 2008, 04:49 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Revas View Post
You forgot Le Creusot-TGV station and Macon - TGV....
oh yeah oops!!!
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Old March 24th, 2008, 05:16 PM   #72
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On the UK 'high speed lines' occasionally trains stop once in the suburbs of London, such as Watford on the WCML or Stevanage on the ECML, but most trains don't, and this is on 200km/h. At higher speeds it really starts defeating the point of a high speed line to have the train stop. I'm not sure what the stopping patterns are like in Europe, but often if high speed trains stop lots it's usually at one end of the line after the train has left the high speed route for good. Normally on high speed lines, regardless of how many stations there are each train only stops once or twice or thrice on the whole high speed section of it's journey.
Population density is far more dispersed from the centre in Australian cities: in fact I can remember when basically no-one lived in the city centre, and it was dead as a door-nail once the shops shut down at noon on Saturday. Fortunately this trend has been reversed.
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Old March 24th, 2008, 09:35 PM   #73
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It doesn't matter how big cities are. High-speed trains run from city centre to city centre and stop at airports such as CdG at most. They don't serve suburbs, however.
Watford Junction and Stevenage in london suburbs - United Kingdom.

Guadalajara and others in Madrid Suburbs - Spain

Vila Franca and Pinhal Novo in Lisboa - Portugal.

I didn't even need to go further than this ....



You seem to have a great missconception of what high speed services are in reality .. most networks offer direct top-to-top and stopping services.

And you even get the odd case like Madrid or Barcelona where NEITHER of the high speed statios is on the "city center" at all.
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Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
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Old March 26th, 2008, 12:30 PM   #74
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Yeah, the northbound Shinkansen from Ueno station in Japan stop at Omiya (if I'm remembering right).
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Old March 28th, 2008, 03:13 PM   #75
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Since when Guadalajara is a suburb of Madrid?? It belongs to a different province, a different Autonomous community and it is the capital city of the province of Guadalajara itself (pop: 78.115). Some people might consider it part of the metropolitan area of Madrid, but is definitely not a Madrid's suburb.

For the case of Madrid or Barcelona, the stations might not be in the proper city center, but both are the main stations of the city.
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Old March 28th, 2008, 07:40 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanfan89 View Post
what is the average spacing between stations
In Germany I'd say about 50-100km
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Old March 28th, 2008, 11:19 PM   #77
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On HSR lines you have direct trains (no stops), trains with intermediate stops and regional express service, just like you have on non HSR.
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Old March 29th, 2008, 03:49 AM   #78
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Since when Guadalajara is a suburb of Madrid?? It belongs to a different province, a different Autonomous community and it is the capital city of the province of Guadalajara itself (pop: 78.115). Some people might consider it part of the metropolitan area of Madrid, but is definitely not a Madrid's suburb.

For the case of Madrid or Barcelona, the stations might not be in the proper city center, but both are the main stations of the city.
















Do I "reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaly" need to answer that question ???



C-2 Guadalajara-Atocha-Chamartin ... no need to hang yourself over something this simple.
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"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
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Old March 29th, 2008, 02:33 PM   #79
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So that makes it a suburb of Madrid? Interesting. So any city connected with a main city by commuter train makes part of its suburbs. Maybe you meant Metropolitan area?

Nobody's hanging himself here sotavento, keep it cool
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Old March 29th, 2008, 06:55 PM   #80
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wether you like it or not Guadalajara is in the catchment area of Madrid.
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"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
— Eça
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