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Old November 17th, 2009, 05:39 PM   #41
Frank IBC
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Diesel struggling in Kerala, India:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6fPfhWS0K8

Diesels in Pelopponesos, Greece:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hklZn...eature=related

I loved that train. I'm going to miss it when it's gone.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 05:40 PM   #42
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I seem to have messed up the first link to the Pelopponesos train:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29dr4...eature=related
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Old November 18th, 2009, 02:07 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metsfan View Post

Budd company SPV2000:


The SPV2000 was not nearly as successful or reliable as the RDC, however many of both types were in use up to the mid 80's.

- A
So that's where the Amcan came from. Interesting.
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Old November 18th, 2009, 05:18 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
not to mention that in switzerland it would be impossible to use a third rail because of the snow (i think)
No, surprisingly the snow is not an issue. 2 mountain narrow gauge railways in France use a live rail: le Train Jaune de Cerdagne (Cerdagne Yellow Train), near the spanish border, and the Chamonix (France)-Martigny (Switzerland) line. On this line the live rail is only used on the french side though.
A main standard gauge railway in the french Alps mountains, the Maurienne line, also used to have a live rail until the 70'.

Train jaune from http://www.sunfrance.com:
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Old November 18th, 2009, 06:43 PM   #45
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Mot of the railways in Greece use diesel locos.

And I am not complaining. They provide quide adequate service to railways.

Of course everything will soon change and most traffic will be fulfiled by electric ones, and this is already happening on many destinations.
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Old November 18th, 2009, 10:47 PM   #46
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Quote:
So that's where the Amcan came from. Interesting.
As far as I know, it's the other way around, mate... The SPV is a
(rather unsuccessful, to say the least) attempt to build a motorcoach
out of an amfleet car, not te opposite. The original amfleet car design
was derived from the Metroliners, which were fast EMUs used on the
electrified part of the north-east corridor. This is where this kind of
round-shape section was born.
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Old November 18th, 2009, 10:53 PM   #47
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Quote:
No, surprisingly the snow is not an issue. 2 mountain narrow gauge railways in France use a live rail: le Train Jaune de Cerdagne (Cerdagne Yellow Train), near the spanish border, and the Chamonix (France)-Martigny (Switzerland) line. On this line the live rail is only used on the french side though.
A main standard gauge railway in the french Alps mountains, the Maurienne line, also used to have a live rail until the 70'.
And this remains so only because the french do not want to allocate the
money to replace this anachronic third rail with a catenary. But believe
me, there are problems with it in winter, more than enough. And if they
replaced it on the Maurienne line (which sees most of the international
traffic between France and Italy), it was not without reason. Before its
conversion, the reliability of this line in winter was a catastrophy.
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Old November 19th, 2009, 03:51 AM   #48
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There are astonishingly still a lot of oddities inside the french network.

3rd rail , odd signaling , near the alps there are still a lot of fun things to discover.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Facial View Post
poshbakerloo, don't feel bad about British rail. Just think about America, and you won't feel bad anymore.

But your point is well-made. From an engineering perspective, what counts in achieving high speed is essentially the power-to-weight ratio, which is generally much higher for electric locomotives than diesel locomotives.

However, it is still possible to design trains running on non-electrified rail lines that can achieve high speed. The use of turbocharged 2-stroke diesels, and especially modern gas turbines, provides a very high power output, perhaps operable in the 140-180 mph range. It is unfortunate that most 2-strokes are designed for high torque rather than high speed. Combined with batteries and regenerative braking, you can attach more power cars and/or motors in the consist, achieving even higher power density.

No ... in this particular subject we can easily say that even the USA is AHEAD of the UK.

There are more people served by HSR there ... this of course acording to some naysayers the HSR speed is always 1mph over wichever speed is attainable in the UK... isn't it so?.

Diesels and Gas turbine are OK ... but only if you are in the process of implementing a small frequencies network (say 1tph each direction) ... nothing in the grand scale of the british network would assume the "backward inability" to implement nationwide electrification there ... that and ATC/ATP/whatever.
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Old November 19th, 2009, 08:05 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
As far as I know, it's the other way around, mate... The SPV is a
(rather unsuccessful, to say the least) attempt to build a motorcoach
out of an amfleet car, not te opposite. The original amfleet car design
was derived from the Metroliners, which were fast EMUs used on the
electrified part of the north-east corridor. This is where this kind of
round-shape section was born.
Yeah, I looked this up. The cars have had such an odd history . I guess the SPVs were converted back. So (if they are still in use) if you are riding in an Amfleet you may actually be in one of these old SPVs.
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Old November 20th, 2009, 02:04 AM   #50
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our suburban rail network in the city of Adelaide, Australia has been run by diesel trains since the 1920's and DMU's since the 1950's. Our existing diesel fleet of trains and most lines on our network will be converted to electric in 2 years.

We are the last Australian City with a passenger rail system to be running diesel trains, in addition to that our rail infrastructure is quite poor with uninviting suburban stations and worn out track. With the conversion to electric is a complete upgrade to the track, stations and a lot of new EMU's.

DMU's in operation since 1980:

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Old November 21st, 2009, 11:00 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
As far as I know, it's the other way around, mate... The SPV is a
(rather unsuccessful, to say the least) attempt to build a motorcoach
out of an amfleet car, not te opposite. The original amfleet car design
was derived from the Metroliners, which were fast EMUs used on the
electrified part of the north-east corridor. This is where this kind of
round-shape section was born.
Correct, the SPV2000 were (slightly lower speed) diesel iterations of the Metroliner, and where the Amfleet design originated. The RDC was a more successful design because it was never meant to be high speed, and could fit many markets, you could run a train of one unit up to 14 units, and the RDC 3 and 4 could go as many as you wanted due to brake upgrades (at least this is what i've read).

- A
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Old November 21st, 2009, 11:06 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by He Named Thor View Post
Yeah, I looked this up. The cars have had such an odd history . I guess the SPVs were converted back. So (if they are still in use) if you are riding in an Amfleet you may actually be in one of these old SPVs.
They were never amfleets to begin with. The ones in that photo are from the Shore Line East service, i believe they are at the new haven storage yard with some out of service amfleets probably needing repairs. There are 2 currently at Hudson Yard along the northeast corridor between newark penn station and secacus junction in NJ. They were metro north, but i'm not sure what they are doing there, they've been there a while.

- A
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Old November 22nd, 2009, 11:37 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metsfan View Post
They were never amfleets to begin with. The ones in that photo are from the Shore Line East service, i believe they are at the new haven storage yard with some out of service amfleets probably needing repairs. There are 2 currently at Hudson Yard along the northeast corridor between newark penn station and secacus junction in NJ. They were metro north, but i'm not sure what they are doing there, they've been there a while.

- A
Oh, I was under the impression that Amtrak had acquired them. So are the Metro North ones just regular locomotive-pulled cars now?

Also, do you know if this one still exists?
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/spv2000a.jpg
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Old November 23rd, 2009, 12:44 AM   #54
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No, they have been retired.

- A
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Old November 23rd, 2009, 08:33 AM   #55
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All of our railways in Western Canada are diesel. There used to be an electrified track in BC called the "Tumbler Ridge Subdivision" that was ~130 km and was used for about 20 years...but demand for transporting stuff in that area dwindled.
The cost to electrify the railways through here would be astronomical due to the distances.
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Old November 23rd, 2009, 09:22 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
furthermore, the new EMUs allow for feeding back the energy from braking into the system and all the way to another EMU that is accelerating at the exact same time
A better option would be a hybrid engine. Use the braking to power electric motors for initial acceleration. That'd solve the slow acceleration problem of diesel locomotives.
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Old November 23rd, 2009, 10:28 AM   #57
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Is diesel rail that bad

Ok, I was sitting at a light and a guy pulled up next to me. He actually asked me if my lovely bike was a diesel. I answered him no obviously and asked him why. He said the engine was knocking like a diesel. Luckily the light turned green and the conversation was over. It did get me thinking though. The bike does knock quite a bit and my dealer told me that all k1200rss sounded like this. Here are a couple thought I had, someone please tell me if I am out of my mind or could these things help. 1 - new air filter, letting the engine breathe better, 2 - new higher efficient muffler, 3 - loose engine mounts?, 4 - synthetic oil only have 13k miles...or any other suggestions.

Thanks

Ted
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Old November 23rd, 2009, 03:26 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siamu maharaj View Post
A better option would be a hybrid engine. Use the braking to power electric motors for initial acceleration. That'd solve the slow acceleration problem of diesel locomotives.
hybrid technology is a waste of time and effort everywhere, because you STILL have to carry the weight of the fuel AND now youve added more weight because of the additional engine(s) and batteries

and all that added weight spoils the efficiency and the acceleration
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Old November 23rd, 2009, 08:44 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siamu maharaj View Post
A better option would be a hybrid engine. Use the braking to power electric motors for initial acceleration. That'd solve the slow acceleration problem of diesel locomotives.
Diesel electric engines are pretty much "hybrid". They are quite common but heavier if am not mistaken though.
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Old November 23rd, 2009, 09:55 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
hybrid technology is a waste of time and effort everywhere, because you STILL have to carry the weight of the fuel AND now youve added more weight because of the additional engine(s) and batteries

and all that added weight spoils the efficiency and the acceleration
It's better than a diesel engine by itself. Suppose a train has one locomotive, and 10 coaches. The coaches are non-powered. Thus, even when accounting for the weight of the batteries in a separate battery-powered locomotive, the power density and energy density both increase for the entire train.

Fuel is also saved at the same time, because on each acceleration both power sources are at work, but each time it brakes, all of the energy goes into the batteries. Provided that there are enough batteries, the cycle lifetime will be acceptable. Actually, you don't even have to use Li-ion, NiMH suffices in one of the designs. It saves money in the long-term. However, business plans are usually very short-term. This is why few diesel hybrids or battery-electrics exist.

A fully electrified line is superior in power density, no doubt, but the longer the line, the more cost for installation of overhead catenaries. Thus, there is probably a break-even point.
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