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Old December 19th, 2009, 01:22 AM   #81
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You guys should research "ALP-45"... Dual mode catenary/diesel passenger locomotive.

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Old December 19th, 2009, 12:01 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
The Great western main line is getting electrified and so is the Liverpool-Manchester route. All the express DMUs here are tilting, I'm a big fan of them mainly because of the noise inside.
Voyagers are pure CRAP ... and yess ... I rode on them ... that's how I formed my "good" opinion on them.

The virgin Pendolinos are also a little bit odd ... nothing like continental pendolinos ...

I don't know if it is the cramped 2+2 seating , lack of noise insulation or the generalised lack of space in those trains but they surelly are nothing to be compared with true HS trains everywhere else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
175mph on the GWR, maximum, for some sections, 155mph for much of the rest of it. It could not be higher, but that is still a massive improvement.

Most of the rest of the network would get nothing like as fast a service if the existing track is upgraded. And upgrading the existing network for speed is costly way of achieving little.
The most important investments in the british network should be:

1- creation of a trunck network of ELG (european loading gauge) intermodal freight terminals ... break everithing if needed be ... just create a couple of corridors where (standard) lorry-carrying and container trains can pass without restrictions.
2- install ERTMS or other ATC/ATP nationwide
3- create a couple of 200mph (or more) routes ... theres no need to actually create a 500 miles long HS2 ... just a couple of sections here and there.
4- major electrifications and tilting trains to most destinations
5- elimination of some heritage oddities here and there ...

... but no ... better to invest in 125mph diesel tilting trains and EMD locos.
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Old December 19th, 2009, 01:45 PM   #83
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I mostly agree.

BTW yes our Pendolinos are smaller loading guage than the continental ones.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 12:57 AM   #84
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The coach with pantographs on the Pendolinos have amazingly tiny overhead storage.

Thanks to the UK loading gauge and tilt

Voyagers suck with the noise and vibration, but they do accelerate nicely though.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 04:27 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
Voyagers are pure CRAP ... and yess ... I rode on them ... that's how I formed my "good" opinion on them.

The virgin Pendolinos are also a little bit odd ... nothing like continental pendolinos ...

I don't know if it is the cramped 2+2 seating , lack of noise insulation or the generalised lack of space in those trains but they surelly are nothing to be compared with true HS trains everywhere else.
I agree, Voyagers are crap. VERY noisy for the vibration almost feels too good for my own good! (in the wrong places lol). They do accelerate pretty fast, and run at 125Mpg which is good for a DMU.

The 390s (Pendolino) are built to the smaller UK loading gauge. And also they tilt so they have to me narrower still to allow this to happen...I don't think they are that cramped tho. The windows are very small which can make it feel cramped. The noise insulation is good tho. You can't hear track noise at all! Sometimes the werring sound of the engines but there still pretty quiet.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 06:10 PM   #86
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I used a Pendolino for the first time this year and I have no complaints at all. The onboard facilities were great, the noise was virtually non-existant, and the journey time was enough to convince me never to drive to London again.
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 10:35 PM   #87
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i agree, few weeks ago i went to birmingham nec for the classic car show from London Euston, and it was a virgin pendolino train, the ride was very comportable and quiet, no outside noise whatsoever.
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Old December 23rd, 2009, 01:14 AM   #88
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i agree with both you two. Pendolino's are great, i got on one from liverpool to london and back a few weeks ago.

It takes 2 hours and 6 minutes, in a car it would be more like 5 hours, they are very smooth and quiet, the on boar service is great and i love looking out the window while they tilt, its like being on a plane.
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Old December 23rd, 2009, 10:41 AM   #89
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Nice to hear some positive comments for a change! I've never been on one though
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Old December 23rd, 2009, 01:09 PM   #90
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I prefer good old-fashioned loco+carriages+loco/DVT trains like the HSTs on the East Coast mainline:



And not forgetting of course the UK's best TOC, Wrexham & Shropshire..



http://www.wrexhamandshropshire.co.uk/

Their newly refurbished sets are brilliant btw. And they're increasing the length of their sets to 4 carriages.
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Old December 23rd, 2009, 02:05 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
I don't like those huge overland power cables either, just look at the Linthebene it's crazy.
image hosted on flickr


Just one example:

This is one of the most famous motives in Switzerland (including the train). I don't see where the overhead wires look that bad.
It look much better when they are place in the middle of a double track intead of in the sides.
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Old December 23rd, 2009, 02:30 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manchester Planner View Post

Their newly refurbished sets are brilliant btw. And they're increasing the length of their sets to 4 carriages.
I so agree! The MK3 coaches look the best ever, inside and out!

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Old December 23rd, 2009, 11:34 PM   #93
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Heres some NJT videos of Diesels on the Line near me.

NJT Train approaching Nanuet,NY




NJT Train Approaching Pearl River,NY



NJT Train blasting through Montvale,NJ





NJT Trains @ Dover Station



I do not care about there size , They do there jobs , getting people form point A to Point B.

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Old December 24th, 2009, 01:08 AM   #94
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I so agree! The MK3 coaches look the best ever, inside and out!

Wow that looks good. Mk3s and 4s are a dream to ride. Better ride quality than TGV trailers (ok, only just, TGVs aren't exactly Pacers) and so quiet. The product of the golden age of British Rail engineering.

Unfortunately Manchester Planner, locos + trailers is probably no longer, everything seems to be going EMU/DMU. Although I like DMUs, I'm with Posh, I love the noisy racket they make, unlike Sotavento. But I even sit on the lower deck at the back on double decker buses to feel the rumble.
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Old December 27th, 2009, 12:54 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
3- create a couple of 200mph (or more) routes ... theres no need to actually create a 500 miles long HS2 ... just a couple of sections here and there.
i disagree, the money spent to re-lay some stretches of track, and other modifications probably wouldn't be justified by the minor time benefits achieved.

On the ECML only a few sections were suitable for 140mph, and even where there were suitable stretches of track level crossings posed a problem.

A few major high speed routes integrated into a wider electrified network employing tilting trains would be ideal. In Britain, a small country, HSR could really flourish. The conservatives seem to promise this, but considering the disdain they held railways with during their last period of government I'm not convinced.
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Old April 4th, 2010, 01:08 AM   #96
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My theory/opinion is that most American railroads stick with diesel, because simply, the majority of railroad traffic in the US is composed of freight, and HEAVY freight, such as coal. Also, the mindset of most American railroads are to stick as many cars on one train as possible and diesel can generate the power to pull the load easier than electricity can. Speed is not the main focus on these trains but power. Nevertheless, almost NONE of the locomotives in the US are purely diesel. Most use diesel engines which powers a generator and electric motor that powers the wheels. It's just that the electricity is generated on the locomotive itself, instead of being located in wires.
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Old April 4th, 2010, 02:20 PM   #97
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No, electric locomotives produce more power than diesel, and can therefore haul much more in the majority of circumstances.

The only restriction on electric locomotives is the same restriction as on diesels - adhesion. Moving off from a standstill both electric and diesel trains have the same amount of tractive effort, that is, its approximately 30% of the weight of the locomotive. If both types of locomotive weight 125t they will both have about 40t of force to pull the train (this is why some freight locomotives have ballast added so they get more traction). As the train speeds up adhesion becomes less critical and absolute installed power does, and as electric lomotives can easily have 50% more installed power per ton of locomotive it is quite obvious which wins at higher speeds.

For british examples, the 129t diesel class 70 has 3690 bhp, whereas the electric 126t class 92 has 6760 bhp, nearly twice as much. Yet as they both weight the same and have the same co-co configuration they both have similar starting tractive efforts - about 360-400 kN.

This means they can both haul the same amount of weight, but the electric train will take it on to a higher top speed (twice the power, root of 2 = 1.41, therefore about 1.41 times faster, or approximately 40%) before it runs out of power.

The reason why the USA didn't go electric over the majority of routes is that there are significantly large distances to be electrified for very low levels of traffic on many routes (as in number of trains, obviously total tonnage is still quite high). And if not much of the network can justify electrification then for operational reasons its better to just have diesel. It is obviously a good choice as railfreight in the US is very competitive, and the future looks good, made all the more clear by Warren Buffett's purchase of BNSF.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 11:26 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TsLeng View Post
The coach with pantographs on the Pendolinos have amazingly tiny overhead storage.

Thanks to the UK loading gauge and tilt

Voyagers suck with the noise and vibration, but they do accelerate nicely though.
the biggest problem in the UK is the ultra-high platforms ... it makes impossible to take advantage of low clearance to add some extra height to the vehicles.


Who would had ever think that perfect standards would in the end contribute to the extra restrictiveness of the living quarters of the trains ???

Talgos and TGV's can proffit from an average height of 3m just by lowering the floor to 50/60cm heignhs ... in the british network that would be very hard to accept/force ...
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Old April 9th, 2010, 12:15 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PresidentBjork View Post
i disagree, the money spent to re-lay some stretches of track, and other modifications probably wouldn't be justified by the minor time benefits achieved.

On the ECML only a few sections were suitable for 140mph, and even where there were suitable stretches of track level crossings posed a problem.

A few major high speed routes integrated into a wider electrified network employing tilting trains would be ideal. In Britain, a small country, HSR could really flourish. The conservatives seem to promise this, but considering the disdain they held railways with during their last period of government I'm not convinced.
The british network does indeed benefit MORE from a couple of different 100km HSL's than from a completely new route ... but then again ... the ones who will suffer from the failed plans are yourselves ... do as you see fit.
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"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
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Old April 9th, 2010, 12:29 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowes48 View Post
My theory/opinion is that most American railroads stick with diesel, because simply, the majority of railroad traffic in the US is composed of freight, and HEAVY freight, such as coal. Also, the mindset of most American railroads are to stick as many cars on one train as possible and diesel can generate the power to pull the load easier than electricity can. Speed is not the main focus on these trains but power. Nevertheless, almost NONE of the locomotives in the US are purely diesel. Most use diesel engines which powers a generator and electric motor that powers the wheels. It's just that the electricity is generated on the locomotive itself, instead of being located in wires.
the biggest trains in the USa are indeed coal trains ... and they use electrics to pull them ... so that is not the definite advantage of diesels.


http://www.trainweb.org/southwestsho...owsprings.html


http://www.northeast.railfan.net/electric12.html



In the long run it is much more ECONOMICAL to have electric freight than large fleets of diesels ... specially when we are dealing with coal/petrol freight specific traffic.

Nuclear , solar , wind , hidric , coal , petrol all serve to power those same electrics.

Some unknown ELECTRIC locomotives in the navajo tribe deserted lands actually provide the means to the electricity used in the ENTIRE Los Angeles metropolitan area ... not some lame diesels like the ones you see in downtown LA pulling the comuter traffic around there.


The USA was indeed (at some point in the pasT) a leading country in massive electrification of freight routes ... at some point (around early 1970's) they simply decided to commit mas suicide (in economic terms) and almost ALL railroads simply folded and colapsed into bancrupcy ... stupidly dieselisating of otherwise PROFFITABLE electrified corridors contibuted in large part to those same suicides.

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Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
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