Hull City F.C. - Official Thread

[pug]

CityHull, even the last council were reluctant to offload it, despite the fact many of them were dead against it being built origionally.

Stiil the same old self-serving council with a different colour. Surprising really as the Allams want to increase capacity in order to reduce ticket prices. Would have thought that would sit well within their ideology??

I can see ERYC rubbing their hands waiting for the Allams to approach them re. Melton.

[Bushy_Badger]

I am sure Brady said that he would let the people of Hull decide.

[CityHull]

Originally Posted by pug

CityHull, even the last council were reluctant to offload it, despite the fact many of them were dead against it being built origionally.

Stiil the same old self-serving council with a different colour. Surprising really as the Allams want to increase capacity in order to reduce ticket prices. Would have thought that would sit well within their ideology??

I can see ERYC rubbing their hands waiting for the Allams to approach them re. Melton.

You can imagine.

Whether or not he backs up his threat to take City to Melton is anyone's guess, but one thing I am sure about the ERYC will have an open door policy for any representatives of the Allams.

[Bushy_Badger]

KC Stadium plans: 'We'll let the people decide' – Labour leader Brady

Hull Daily Mail - Saturday, May 07, 2011

THE people will decide whether the KC Stadium should be sold to Hull City's owners, the new council leader has revealed.

Councillor Steve Brady, set to become leader after Labour's emphatic victory in Thursday's local elections, believes a referendum should be held on the issue.

City's owner Assem Allam and his son Ehab want to create a £100 million sports village, including a hotel, tennis, squash and gymnastics facilities, an Olympic-size swimming pool and a multi-storey car park, at the site of the KC.

Cllr Brady said: "This is such an important decision that the administration needs to rely on the people of Hull to do this.

"When we get to the point where there might be some movement on this issue, the right thing to do would be to hold a local referendum."

There had been deadlock between the Allams and the previous Liberal Democrats

Read full article: http://www.thisishullandeastriding.c...ail/story.html

[Suquondo]

Does anyone actually know how much was offered for the Stadium? I have read that Mr Allam wanted the site for free.How true is this?

[pug]

I have read that Mr Allam wanted the site for free.How true is this?

It is only really speculation, but I have heard figures of £30 million being mentioned. In reality I believe SMC own a 50 year lease on the stadium, and naturally the Allams own that as part of their takeover of Hull City. I hear the council gain little more than a quid per week (or month??) through rent, though dont quote me on that.

The only real reason the council has given for their decision is the Hull Fairground and the 'Royal Charter'. They suggest that the fair has to be on Walton Street due to this, which is actually completely false. The fair has had a number of different sites since the Royal Charter, and there is still plenty of space elsewhere to hold it than on potentially prime development land that sits largely unused for 51 weeks of the year.

As I already said, I hope the Melton plans come to fruition, if only to show the population of Hull that decades of apathy has helped get them to where they are now. As things stand, without the ability to increase capacity in the stadium, the impetus to get back into the Premiership will be all but lost.

Well done HCC.

[Holmeboy]

This is a real bummer, as the plans looked really good, and would be a massive boost to the city.

I don't understand council sometimes, they just seem to want to hold us back.

It will be an even bigger blow if City move out the city, and into Melton, which personally i think would be a really bad move for city as it's in the middle of nowhere. But, it really is a lost opportunity for Hull with sports village, and squash complexes etc, really pisses me off.

I'm also all for keeping Walton Street fairground as it is, Council and the Allams should have explored taking up some more of West Park for the development.

[Bushy_Badger]

Originally Posted by pug

The fair has had a number of different sites since the Royal Charter, and there is still plenty of space elsewhere to hold it than on potentially prime development land that sits largely unused for 51 weeks of the year.

Don't forget the weekly/twice weekly market which does a roaring trade in knocked off goods and fake DVD's.

[Suquondo]

How true is this statement? What would council tax payers think of this?

Cllr Pete Allen: "The Allams don't want to buy the KC, they want it for free, or if not free, then not the many millions of pounds the KC Stadium and the surrounding land is worth.
"Having got it, they then want to raise a mortgage of £60 million to pay for development of a sports village.
"If I am right, what we have is the Allams expecting the people of Hull to donate assets worth in excess of £60 million so they can build facilities worth many more millions, using borrowed money, secured on the valuable assets we currently own, and then to rent that facility back to us and when it is paid for they retain ownership."”

http://www.hullcityonline.com/the-te...ng-for-nothing

[pug]

What would council tax payers think of this?

The stadium was funded by the cash windfall the council gained when they sold their shares in KC. Council tax payers would not be getting ripped off, and the council have not specified what they think the land and stadium is currently worth. I would suggest that the fairground is worth very little, particularly if there is no chance of redeveloping it.

My take on it is that the Allams are offering the council £?million to buy the stadium to enable them to increase the capacity of the stadium and build the new sports village. Why on earth would they even contemplate doing so if they dont own the land? This is the problem with the council, they seem to want to keep hold of as much land as possible. Example being their daft 'city centre masterplan' of a few years ago. Private investment on their terms only.

References to David Lloyd are pointless, yet have still been used by Brady et al in the past.

There are many other projects that the money could be spent on if they offloaded the stadium.

[Suquondo]

Totally agree about not investing cash into something you do not own.
Where the funds came from to build the stadium are irrelevant.The stadium is owned by the hull city council and it's tax payers. The Royal charter says That the fair can be held anywhere as long as land is provided by HCC.

The question I am asking is simple. How much did Hull City council ask for?
How much did Mr Allam offer?

Does anyone know these basic details?

[livin' hull]

Originally Posted by Suquondo

How true is this statement? What would council tax payers think of this?

Cllr Pete Allen: "The Allams don't want to buy the KC, they want it for free, or if not free, then not the many millions of pounds the KC Stadium and the surrounding land is worth.
"Having got it, they then want to raise a mortgage of £60 million to pay for development of a sports village.
"If I am right, what we have is the Allams expecting the people of Hull to donate assets worth in excess of £60 million so they can build facilities worth many more millions, using borrowed money, secured on the valuable assets we currently own, and then to rent that facility back to us and when it is paid for they retain ownership."”

http://www.hullcityonline.com/the-te...ng-for-nothing

sounds like what Humberside were saying last night (after speaking to the younger allam)- the allams where investing into Hull and wanted HCC to 'gift' the stadium/land to them to kick start the process...

so HCC would not have got a penny from this deal.

(of course I may have misheard)

[pug]

The stadium is owned by the hull city council and it's tax payers.

The tax-payer does not get a say in where the money gets spent though it seems.. Referendum anyone? And I think how it was funded is relevant, particularly when any money gained from a sale would have to be re-invested in capital projects only. It is not allowed to pay off debts/fund public services which council tax payers pay for.

We dont know the offers on the table though, and can only speculate. I would not agree with the council just giving the stadium away... However it is perhaps best to weigh up the pros and cons of such an investment being talked about, and from what I can see the council are completely stupid to turn their backs on this.

[Dazzar86]

Originally Posted by pug

While I kid of see where you are coming from, and agree with you (if its the way I read it), where has this gem come from?

I read somewhere last year that the council had made something silly like £47 since the KC was built. The way they've leased the stadium, means they basically make nothing. I think it was based on % of profit of the companies (teams) leasing the stadium on how much their rent is, or something silly like that - and as sports clubs don't ever make money, neither does the council from the lease agreement.

[Dazzar86]

Originally Posted by pug

CityHull, even the last council were reluctant to offload it, despite the fact many of them were dead against it being built origionally.

Abi Bell asked me for suitable suggestions on what I felt the money made from the sale could be spent on to benefit the city, so she could write them down and bring them up in any possible talks on pros/cons of selling the stadium.

Obviously she doesn't get a say on the sale now, though as Labour were voted in.

[Dazzar86]

Originally Posted by Suquondo

Does anyone actually know how much was offered for the Stadium? I have read that Mr Allam wanted the site for free.How true is this?

APPARENTLY, The Allams offered to build a £114 million sports village, but wanted a £30 million contribution from the council to help towards it. They said if the council cannot afford to put £30 million towards the sports village, the Allams would buy the KC off the council for £30million, so they could use it to put towards the sports village.

[Suquondo]

Originally Posted by livin' hull

sounds like what Humberside were saying last night (after speaking to the younger allam)- the allams where investing into Hull and wanted HCC to 'gift' the stadium/land to them to kick start the process...

so HCC would not have got a penny from this deal.

(of course I may have misheard)

"We are willing to do the whole scheme but we need a significant contribution from the council.

"If they can't generate their own funds to make a contribution, then give us the freehold of the stadium as their contribution.
EHAB Allam

Looks like the 'gift' requires a gift.

http://www.thisishullandeastriding.c...ail/story.html

[pug]

I read somewhere last year that the council had made something silly like £47 since the KC was built. The way they've leased the stadium, means they basically make nothing. I think it was based on % of profit of the companies (teams) leasing the stadium on how much their rent is, or something silly like that - and as sports clubs don't ever make money, neither does the council from the lease agreement.

Its not a loss maker though, but they seem intent on sitting on the asset instead of selling it on to re-invest.

APPARENTLY, The Allams offered to build a £114 million sports village, but wanted a £30 million contribution from the council to help towards it. They said if the council cannot afford to put £30 million towards the sports village, the Allams would buy the KC off the council for £30million, so they could use it to put towards the sports village.

Kind of what Ive heard, though I only heard that £30 million was offered (the council valued it at £60million seemingly out of thin air), and not the Allams asking them to invest in the sports village. The Allams need to own the stadium in order to secure a mortgage on it for the developments. I can be pretty sure that no money would be invested from elsewhere so the council and Hull residents seem likely to miss out on this excellent opportunity.

What certain councillors like Pete Allen seem to be glossing over is that they themselves dont know the offer on the table. They seem to be likening the Allams to David Lloyd, and are making stupid comparisons with them and people such as Pearson and Reckett, who are from a completely different era... Has it passed these people by that the Allams have recently donated millions to Hull KR and the university among others?

[Dazzar86]

One thing I've seen noted most people are talking about on the football forums is that the two senior councillors most against the sale are Cllrs Pete Allen and Terry Geraghty - two huge Hull FC fans - scared their club will be left without a home?

Sounds like personal preferences are taking place rather than most sensible.

The silly thing is, The Allams are friends with Neil Hudgell and Adam Pearson, so on a business level, the 3 sporting clubs have never been closer!

Even Adam Pearson, the owner of the club they seem to be trying to protect in all of this, has spoken out saying the council are wrong for not backing this.

[Dazzar86]

Ehab Allam speaks sense here:

Asked about the comments around Hull FC, he said: "I laughed at the councillors comments because it's a joke.

"Both Hull City and Hull FC have 42 years remaining on a lease, they're guaranteed that.

"It is possible to insert covenants into any agreement to ensure the stadium would only be used for sporting activities, and the council also controls the planning, which would stop us knocking it down and building houses on it.

"They have full control on what goes on at that site because they are the controlling authority."